First car, lx450! (10 Viewers)

[Fj80oregon]

Bell metric is a great website also for JIS.

 

[tug123]

Replaced dizzy o-ring, rotor, cap+gasket, spark plug wires and spark plugs. Was kinda confused when doing dizzy o-ring whether to put the rotor back to where it was vs. the protrusion/groove thing on the FSM, realized after protrusion/groove thing is only if you set TDC with valve cover open (I did get it to zero on the crank bolt). Could be off by one notch on the rotor position, may pull the valve cover again just for peace of mind to check while the throttle body is still off. These dumb little mistakes I'm making I don't even mind much, just helps me actually learn how the car works better anyways and what not to do.

All I really have left is PHH+heater control valve+buncha hoses, thermostat, and radiator+fan clutch+water pump (when they arrive).

 

[tug123]

I guess I could get a timing gun and do it that way, but by the time I go out and buy one, I could've just pulled the valve cover and checked manually. Since throttle body is already off, as long as that snapped bolt doesn't prevent me I think I'll just pull valve cover.

 

[lexustruck]

fan clutch

Have you read/heard about the blue hub fan clutch?

I just did it on mine, it’s super easy and probably overkill for 90% of the climate my cruiser will see but I’d rather play it safe.
To sum it up, people buy the Aisin FCT-004 fan clutch (rockauto), open it up to drain the silicone inside (preferably overnight, and some heat) and fill it with a heavier weight silicone (10k-20k cst). The second bit of adjusting is releasing the valve by loosening some screws, setting the clutch into some heated water and tightening those screws back down at whatever temp you want your clutch to open up at (95°F-100°F, from what I’ve seen)

There’s at least one guy on here that sells the clutches pre-adjusted if you’d rather do that, but I had fun doing mine

 

[tug123]

Have you read/heard about the blue hub fan clutch?

I just did it on mine, it’s super easy and probably overkill for 90% of the climate my cruiser will see but I’d rather play it safe.
To sum it up, people buy the Aisin FCT-004 fan clutch (rockauto), open it up to drain the silicone inside (preferably overnight, and some heat) and fill it with a heavier weight silicone (10k-20k cst). The second bit of adjusting is releasing the valve by loosening some screws, setting the clutch into some heated water and tightening those screws back down at whatever temp you want your clutch to open up at (95°F-100°F, from what I’ve seen)

There’s at least one guy on here that sells the clutches pre-adjusted if you’d rather do that, but I had fun doing mine

I'm really glad you brought this up, I was kind of confused about the whole replacing the silicone thing, best conclusion I could come to was that new fan clutches have it inside already and I don't *need* to fill it. I ordered OEM 16210-66020 (from Ourisman), which I'm fairly certain is the blue hub fan clutch. Realized a bit too late I could've gotten the Aisin since it's the same, but oh well.

I'm definitely considering it though, that's why I'm replacing the radiator/fan clutch/water pump, it was almost 100 degrees here today and I'd rather play it safe. Only thing I was a bit confused by, was there has to be a downside to doing this right? Weather here is extreme, so it will go over above 100 degrees in the summer, but easily 30 below in the winter. In that thread people say 10k is solid if you're in >100 degree weather often, but what about in far colder weather?

 

[CharlieS]

I guess I could get a timing gun and do it that way, but by the time I go out and buy one, I could've just pulled the valve cover and checked manually. Since throttle body is already off, as long as that snapped bolt doesn't prevent me I think I'll just pull valve cover.

Great progress! I appreciate your attitude about it all being a learning experience. I feel the same way.

Getting timing lined up to the baseline/marks is good, but it doesn't eliminate the need for a timing light. If everything is set up perfectly to the marks, on the correct teeth, the timing adjustment may still be off (not at 3 degrees before top dead center). Odds are you'll still need to adjust the position of the distributor by a few degrees of rotation to get it to spec before you lock it down (tighten the bolt holding the distributor to the head). You need the timing light to know how much to adjust it.

Setting the timing is a procedure where you will benefit from researching the steps. Doing it right involves a few (not complicated, but important) steps - a diagnostic jumper, wheels chocked, in neutral, etc. Follow the factory service manual and you'll be golden.

Also, in my opinion it is worth getting a better timing light - one with an adjustable digital readout and tachometer. A cheap one will work, but if you continue to work on your own vehicle, the better one is helpful, especially if you want to play around with different timing settings after you get it baselined.

 

[tug123]

Looks like I'm able to walk out the snapped bolt with channel locks, will take ages but already got it past the top half of the valve cover.

Great progress! I appreciate your attitude about it all being a learning experience. I feel the same way.

Getting timing lined up to the baseline/marks is good, but it doesn't eliminate the need for a timing light. If everything is set up perfectly to the marks, on the correct teeth, the timing adjustment may still be off (not at 3 degrees before top dead center). Odds are you'll still need to adjust the position of the distributor by a few degrees of rotation to get it to spec before you lock it down (tighten the bolt holding the distributor to the head). You need the timing light to know how much to adjust it.

Setting the timing is a procedure where you will benefit from researching the steps. Doing it right involves a few (not complicated, but important) steps - a diagnostic jumper, wheels chocked, in neutral, etc. Follow the factory service manual and you'll be golden.

Also, in my opinion it is worth getting a better timing light - one with an adjustable digital readout and tachometer. A cheap one will work, but if you continue to work on your own vehicle, the better one is helpful, especially if you want to play around with different timing settings after you get it baselined.

Makes sense, thank you! I'll do both, pull valve cover to get it to whatever it *should* be, and then adjust from there. For my own understanding, is the reason for this difference that timing just has some variance over 30 years (so if you rebuilt and retimed the engine, there wouldn't be variance)? Or is it just standard on all timing chains for a variety of reasons that it's off by something?

Will spring for a nicer timing light, though the last thing I wanna do is spend more dollars hah.

 

[sbman]

I guess I could get a timing gun and do it that way, but by the time I go out and buy one, I could've just pulled the valve cover and checked manually. Since throttle body is already off, as long as that snapped bolt doesn't prevent me I think I'll just pull valve cover.

You will have to use a timing light to set the timing accurately, setting by the FSM is only an initial procedure, the exact setting is always done with a timing light. Get one that has a dial-up offset and make sure you put the jumper on the diagnostic port as specified in the FSM to get the setting correct.

 

[sbman]

Looks like I'm able to walk out the snapped bolt with channel locks, will take ages but already got it past the top half of the valve cover.


Makes sense, thank you! I'll do both, pull valve cover to get it to whatever it *should* be, and then adjust from there. For my own understanding, is the reason for this difference that timing just has some variance over 30 years (so if you rebuilt and retimed the engine, there wouldn't be variance)? Or is it just standard on all timing chains for a variety of reasons that it's off by something?

Will spring for a nicer timing light, though the last thing I wanna do is spend more dollars hah.

It's just the precision that is required in the system, static vs. dynamic. Even a brand new engine will get set with a timing light. Getting something to be set within 1 degree while spinning at 1000 rpm is a challenge and you can get it really close with marks while it's stopped, but to set it to spec requires a timing light. With everything moving and spinning, and tensioned in use the mark won't be exactly where the static (stopped) setting is at.

 

[tug123]

It's just the precision that is required in the system, static vs. dynamic. Even a brand new engine will get set with a timing light. Getting something to be set within 1 degree while spinning at 1000 rpm is a challenge and you can get it really close with marks while it's stopped, but to set it to spec requires a timing light. With everything moving and spinning, and tensioned in use the mark won't be exactly where the static (stopped) setting is at.

Makes a lot of sense, fair enough.

 

[CharlieS]

Like they said above.

Plus you are timing the gear on the alternator shaft to the gear on the engine side, the distributor housing is free to move in a range. You can see the curved slot in the distributor assembly (pic, for example
below) that you are bolting to the head. Any difference in this position changes where the rotor touches the contacts in the distributor cap, thus changing timing.

Screwed Up Dizzy O-ring Replacement. Now cruiser has weak idle and eventually dies.

I'm checking out for the night. Otherwise, start over with FSM, pull plug #1, stuff a paper towel in the spark plug tube and it will puff it out when coming up on compression. And. Only turn the engine by hand when doing all this. NOT the starter or you're moving too much.

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[CharlieS]

Good video from Ryan at Otramm here:

 

[tug123]

Like they said above.

Plus you are timing the gear on the alternator shaft to the gear on the engine side, the distributor housing is free to move in a range. You can see the curved slot in the distributor assembly (pic, for example
below) that you are bolting to the head. Any difference in this position changes where the rotor touches the contacts in the distributor cap, thus changing timing.

View attachment 3662235

Screwed Up Dizzy O-ring Replacement. Now cruiser has weak idle and eventually dies.

I'm checking out for the night. Otherwise, start over with FSM, pull plug #1, stuff a paper towel in the spark plug tube and it will puff it out when coming up on compression. And. Only turn the engine by hand when doing all this. NOT the starter or you're moving too much.

forum.ih8mud.com

Ahhh so in the video below, he's just rotating it based off of that to mildly shift the timing, instead of pulling it out and doing a full tooth. Makes sense why that exists now, a way to slightly modify timing less than a tooth. Glad I kind of understand the timing stuff now.

Will dig through the FSM and check their methodology, won't till at least a week I'll actually be able to run the engine to use the timing light though.

 

[CharlieS]

As long as you are on the right tooth, and you center the lock bolt vertically in the slot, it should get you in the ballpark enough to run okay. Then you can fine tune from there once you're up and running.

 

[tug123]

As long as you are on the right tooth, and you center the lock bolt vertically in the slot, it should get you in the ballpark enough to run okay. Then you can fine tune from there once you're up and running.

Perfect will do that later today, thanks! Then just gotta deal with this darn PHH

 

[ppc]

Makes sense, thank you! I'll do both, pull valve cover to get it to whatever it *should* be, and then adjust from there. For my own understanding, is the reason for this difference that timing just has some variance over 30 years (so if you rebuilt and retimed the engine, there wouldn't be variance)? Or is it just standard on all timing chains for a variety of reasons that it's off by something?

You seem to be confusing valve timing (your reference to "timing chain") and ignition timing. There is little to no relationship between the two.

Valve timing is strictly a mechanical thing to make sure the valves are opening and closing at the proper times related to piston position and is a design time thing. As a timing chain and other components wear there will be slight changes but there is no adjustments that will overcome this. Repair, rebuild or replacement is the fix for our engines. In modern engines they have variable valve timing VVT where valve timing can be changed on the fly by the engine control systems.

Ignition timing is adjusting the point where the electrical charge from the distributor is supplied to the spark plugs. This thread is referring to base ignition timing which is set by disabling the real-time timing adjustments by the ECM ( jumper pins in the diagnostic connector) and rotating the distributor to make the setting. The ECM has a limit to as to how much timing range can be adjusted under normal operation. The It is important to set the base time to a point to maximize the range. When properly set the engine develops maximum power. The setting on our engine from the factory is set at 3 degrees BTDC - before top dead center. That adjustment can be moved to (6-8 degrees BTDC) to enhance performance proving the everything is is tip top shape. Advancing to early can cause engine damage from pre-ignition (spark firing while the piston is still on he upstroke). All of this is dependent on fuel quality, octane, load, RPM, temperature etc. and the age of the various components like properly adjusted spark plug gaps, spark plug wires.

Setting ignition timing without a timing light is just a guess and you may not be getting maximum performance. All you need is a basic timing light without all the bells and whistles $30. I've have a 50 year old Craftsman that works just fine..

 

[tug123]

You seem to be confusing valve timing (your reference to "timing chain") and ignition timing. There is little to no relationship between the two.

Valve timing is strictly a mechanical thing to make sure the valves are opening and closing at the proper times related to piston position and is a design time thing. As a timing chain and other components wear there will be slight changes but there is no adjustments that will overcome this. Repair, rebuild or replacement is the fix for our engines. In modern engines they have variable valve timing VVT where valve timing can be changed on the fly by the engine control systems.

Ignition timing is adjusting the point where the electrical charge from the distributor is supplied to the spark plugs. This thread is referring to base ignition timing which is set by disabling the real-time timing adjustments by the ECM ( jumper pins in the diagnostic connector) and rotating the distributor to make the setting. The ECM has a limit to as to how much timing range can be adjusted under normal operation. The It is important to set the base time to a point to maximize the range. When properly set the engine develops maximum power. The setting on our engine from the factory is set at 3 degrees BTDC - before top dead center. That adjustment can be moved to (6-8 degrees BTDC) to enhance performance proving the everything is is tip top shape. Advancing to early can cause engine damage from pre-ignition (spark firing while the piston is still on he upstroke). All of this is dependent on fuel quality, octane, load, RPM, temperature etc. and the age of the various components like properly adjusted spark plug gaps, spark plug wires.

Setting ignition timing without a timing light is just a guess and you may not be getting maximum performance. All you need is a basic timing light without all the bells and whistles $30. I've have a 50 year old Craftsman that works just fine..

I absolutely was confusing them, this makes a lot more sense. The thing I'd assume there is a relationship though is that the spark plugs need to fire at the top of the compression stroke, which is controlled by the valve timing. So I just guessed they were all the same system, but it sounds like that's exactly what I'm syncing up, the ignition timing via the distributor and the (existing/untouched) valve timing via the timing chain/camshaft.

Would also make sense that if ignition timing is modified it could cause performance problems because it isn't properly igniting in sync with the valve timing.

I ought to do more research on engine fundamentals probably, but this is very helpful to me to understand the inner workings of all of this.

 

[ppc]

Would also make sense that if ignition timing is modified it could cause performance problems because it isn't properly igniting in sync with the valve timing.

I ought to do more research on engine fundamentals probably, but this is very helpful to me to understand the inner workings of all of this.

As I started before valve timing versus ignition timing a two distinct things. Don't waste your time trying to associate the two. Valve timing is a design characteristic and is nothing the average guy needs to be concerned with unless you start changing camshaft lobe duration, rise, valve springs etc.

Yes, improper ignition timing can certainly cause performance problems but also can be catastrophic. Running too advanced can cause pre-ignition (knocking) which can cause overheating and lean conditions and could burn a hole in one of the pistons. All of which have nothing to do with valve timing.

When you have your own timing light, it makes it easy to experiment to get the best result. If 3 degrees works try advancing 1 or 2 degrees additional and test again. It only takes about one minute to check and adjust. The state of TN stopped emissions about a year ago but I always I would set timing to factory specs before testing and never had any problems with testing in TN or in CA when before I relocated.

 

[CharlieS]

As I started before valve timing versus ignition timing a two distinct things. Don't waste your time trying to associate the two. Valve timing is a design characteristic and is nothing the average guy needs to be concerned with unless you start changing camshaft lobe duration, rise, valve springs etc.

Yes, improper ignition timing can certainly cause performance problems but also can be catastrophic. Running too advanced can cause pre-ignition (knocking) which can cause overheating and lean conditions and could burn a hole in one of the pistons. All of which have nothing to do with valve timing.

When you have your own timing light, it makes it easy to experiment to get the best result. If 3 degrees works try advancing 1 or 2 degrees additional and test again. It only takes about one minute to check and adjust. The state of TN stopped emissions about a year ago but I always I would set timing to factory specs before testing and never had any problems with testing in TN or in CA when before I relocated.

And these minor adjustments take 5 min if you have a timing light that has a digital adjustment. Just set the amount of advance you want on the screen, point it at the crank pulley, and adjust the distributor until the marks like up, tighten it down and bob's your uncle.

 

[tug123]

Makes sense on ignition timing, definitely learning a lot through this. My friend may have a timing gun, if so I'll probably just use whatever he has, otherwise I'll order one this week.

Just pulled the valve cover again and properly lined up the distributor, it was off by a tooth or two for sure. The broken bolt is not coming out from just unscrewing it, at some point I'll probably just pull the valve cover (again) and weld a nut to it to get it off, but will get it running before I deal with that.

PHH sometime this week when it's not 95 degrees, no fun.