Builds Finally got my own...Meet BeBe (4 Viewers)

[gregnash]

Ok still working through things but with work ramping up, snow storms galore and whatnot I haven't had a chance to flip the manifold gasket. Got to play a little tonight and attached the vacuum gauge I got. Connection had a small leak but was pulling 15psi from what it looked like at operating temp...

From the spec sheets that I can find that is a bit low but needle is steady there and doesn't fluctuate or anything. Once I figure out how to run the gauge into the cab and get a good solid connection without any leaks I will check again. Right now just playing with under the hood.

 

[Output Shaft]

What's your elevation?

 

[gregnash]

Elevation is a little over 4k'... according to the altimeter on my phone (app) it is actually a little over 4600' and says that it is accurate to +/- 100ft.

 

[Output Shaft]

I was curious since elevation as you know affects what the vacuum will be due to the thinner air.

So according to the chart below, the vacuum at 4000 ft will be 86.2% of your sea level vacuum.

 

[gregnash]

So if I accept that the maximum for the truck at sea level is 22", 86% of that would be about 18". So a little low but again I know that the setup probably has a small leak and I know that my manifold has a leak. If I am reading the different sheets correctly it is where it should be with the manifold leak.

 

[Output Shaft]

Yeah, it's pretty close. My cruiser is at sea level and the vacuum reads about 20. So according to that chart, it would read about 17 inHg at 4000 ft. Pretty close.
My cyl head was just completely rebuilt with all new everything, but the block is the original.

 

[gregnash]

Yeah, it's pretty close. My cruiser is at sea level and the vacuum reads about 20. So according to that chart, it would read about 17 inHg at 4000 ft. Pretty close.
My cyl head was just completely rebuilt with all new everything, but the block is the original.

Yeah that is pretty close to what I did. Basically just a top end rebuild. Pretty sure that once I fix the manifold leak it will go up to about 17 inHg.

 

[gregnash]

So noticed something the other day when I was messing around with the vacuum gauge. When I was rebuilding the top end and putting everything back together I was using a 1985 2F/3F engine FSM manual vs the 1981 2F engine repair manual. What I noticed is one says that the main bolts/studs (17mm) are to be torqued to ~51ft/lbs (1985 2F/3F specific) and then looking at the old (1981 2F specific) says ~37ft/lbs. so which is correct? Did I jack up the gasket, hence the leaks, by torquing to ~51ft/lbs?

 

[Output Shaft]

Doubtful. The risk is breaking those two small end bolts.

I've always used the specs from the 1980 manual with the brown cover. I didn't know there was another manual.

I can't say that 29-36 ft lbs is any magic number though.

I always used 36 ft lbs on the bigger bolts and 30-32 on the smaller end bolts.

Can't say that prevented any leaks though.

 

[roadstr6]

I went to 51 lbs and still got an exhaust leak so....

 

[gregnash]

I went to 51 lbs and still got an exhaust leak so....

Yeah that is what I did the 17mm ones at and got an exhaust leak. The smaller end bolts are ~36ft/lbs in both manuals.

Doubtful. The risk is breaking those two small end bolts.

I've always used the specs from the 1980 manual with the brown cover. I didn't know there was another manual.

I can't say that 29-36 ft lbs is any magic number though.

I always used 36 ft lbs on the bigger bolts and 30-32 on the smaller end bolts.

Can't say that prevented any leaks though.

View attachment 1205906 View attachment 1205907

Yeah outsides are within spec. So this leads me to believe two things;
A) the company didn't machine the manifold properly, or
B) the manifold gasket is directionally specific even though it can be adequately installed backwards.

Won't be able to get to it for another week due to plans. But next weekend (end of month) the wife will be out of town leaving the 4Runner at home so I will have two vehicles and can take over the garage. Think I may just order a second gasket from Onur and first try flipping current and if that doesn't solve the leak then try new and then last resort is to install both for super thick gasket.

 

[roadstr6]

My OEM gasket had an arrow on it which I assumed was supposed to point forward. I'm going to try a Fel-pro gasket next. I didn't have my manifolds planed. I've been told that to do it right, you need to tack weld the floating end ports, then machine. When you get it back, cut off the tacks to free the ends back up.

 

[gregnash]

My OEM gasket had an arrow on it which I assumed was supposed to point forward. I'm going to try a Fel-pro gasket next. I didn't have my manifolds planed. I've been told that to do it right, you need to tack weld the floating end ports, then machine. When you get it back, cut off the tacks to free the ends back up.

Yeah when I took mine to the machine shop they admitted they wouldn't know how to do it but had a shop they use regularly that would. When I installed my gasket I was unaware of the directional arrow so I installed backwards (can't see the arrow currently). So I will purchase another and install that one properly. If I still have leaks after that, then that means to me that the manifold or head was not planed properly so I will double-up the gasket to make it thicker and allow for it to create the necessary seal.

 

[roadstr6]

I've heard people complain about the remflex gaskets being so thick that they couldn't get the bolts to thread into the head. I've often wondered about doubling up the OEM or Fel-pro doing the same thing. If you try it, report back. I may try it as well.

 

[gregnash]

@roadstr6 Definitely will if I end up doing that. Price from Onur on the gasket is $42 plus shipping and he has in stock so will grab one from him and have as the main install once I pull everything apart again. Will keep the old one from there if for some reason the new does not work properly. Other than the high idle I have had ZERO trouble with her since the refresh and she feels good and strong again. Really wish I would have grabbed compression numbers before all this happened (even when I first got her) and then do numbers now. I was very VERY pleasantly surprised that there were no marks on the cylinder walls when I opened her up.

 

[gregnash]

Ok so figured out the issue with the manifold gasket and why it will "fit" both ways but requires mounting a specific way.

So here is a pic of the manifold as it should be, side against the ironing board should be against the head with the side facing up against the manifold.
You can see the F <-- marking at the left denoting the FRONT.
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

Now this is the backside (opposite of above) with the head side facing up..
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

Close up of the marking F <-- (now pay close attention to the fire rings in the image. Two are exhaust and one is intake)
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

And here is a pic of the reverse side..... (again pay close attention to the fire rings)
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

Do you see the difference?!

 

[gregnash]

And just for s***s and giggles... here is BeBe at work yesterday morning. We got hit with a quick storm (literally lasted maybe 4hrs) but in the highest areas it dropped 30" of new powder and in Carson (4600') it dropped about 6".
Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

 

[gregnash]

Well still have the vacuum leak, replaced the gasket with the F <-- facing the proper direction and still have the same issues, high idle and the slight vacuum leak at the manifold. I did put on a welding glove and attempted to choke the carb by covering it and that worked which tells me that the leak isnt substantial enough to keep the truck running when choked off. So I guess I will just live with it, nothing absolutely major but took me about 5hrs to get everything apart, figure out how the hell to get to that rear most 14mm bolt and then get it all back together. She still runs great and I did pull the idle fuel mix screw when I had the carb out.

The screw actually had one half of the screw head busted off which is why I seemed to have issues with a screwdriver grabbing well. Took my dremel with a cut-off wheel and etched a small mark so that a flathead now grabs well. So I will mess with things a little tomorrow if I feel like it to try and adjust the mixture and whatnot. But I did turn the screw out to 3 1/2 turn when I reassembled everything.

 

[HemiAlex]

This is making me apprehensive to pull the cylinder head off! I'm glad you're figuring out this stuff for me... haha

 

[gregnash]

This is making me apprehensive to pull the cylinder head off! I'm glad you're figuring out this stuff for me... haha

Don't be afraid dude. Just take your time, document everything with pics, blue tape and pics, and write yourself notes. For the head, take it to a good machine shop and have them mill both sides and then take the manifold to a good shop as well. I have read that the proper way of doing the manifold is to put it on a flat surface face down, then tack weld the two horns in place to keep them from moving. They should then mill it and go from there. When doing the manifold gasket just make sure that you put the gasket on properly to ensure you get a good seal. Ultimately while I have a slight manifold leak I do not know for sure that is the culprit for my high idle.

Get yourself a nice tap and die set so you can chase all the threads and you will be good to go. Ultimately I am sure at some point with all the changes that I did; complete rebuild of the head, lots of new hardware, new gaskets, rebuild of carb, etc., that something is "sticking" and causing the high idle, but I will continue to tinker until I figure it out and then go from there. Until then, she runs beautifully.