Builds Elma the red 60 (1 Viewer)

[NeverGiveUpYota]

@joebattle1 Goo up your block, let it tack up for a bit, use dental floss to tie up the gasket through the corners (don’t tie really tight as you’ll need to get a pair of scissors in at the end to clip and pull) and a few in the middle of the length, add rtv to the gasket and let that tack up. Push up pan w/ one knee and hold in place while threading in the two or four corner screws, remove knee and thread in the rest. You’ll need to tighten them evenly but not fully all around. Let the rtv get lightly squished for say 30 mins then tighten more. Most will tell you you’ll need to tighten the screws over a period of a few days. They’re only some minuscule amount, like 7ft/lbs (the fsm is in/lbs but it converts to that number). Floss can be pulled out last. That’s how I did mine and it’s been good. I have no idea why folks think adding the gasket to a round rim first makes the most sense. To me the block is flat so it seems far more rational to go that route. Mine was very dry tho, the block. Yours won’t be due to removing and readding so that can make things far more awkward. GL. I hope it’s not your timing cover gasket, but even that one isn’t too bad to redo.

 

[joebattle1]

Well that blows!
Any pics of the leak?

Tell me about it. No pics that will do any justice. I'd need to post a video if anything which requires me to learn more interneting.

Oops, sorry. Oil pan. I do feel that adding the gasket to the pan isn’t the way to go. Like you said, those arches are too easy for it to roll as your pushing the pan upward.

Interesting method for sure. Thank you for your help as always.

@joebattle1 i think I threw some pictures up on how I did the oil pan. It’s been fine for 6 months now and a few thousand miles.

Feel free to PM me and we can hop on a call if you want.

To diagnose I would clean everything up real nice at timing and oil pan and the. Drive for a little. Pull over and check. Simple and stupid.

Thanks my man... I looked back at your thread again. Very helpful.

 

[joebattle1]

Ok, I had to run out and go to work after I successfully passed smog yesterday so I couldn't get a focused look at the massive oil leak.

Yesterday I got an East Oakland gas station qt of oil and shoved it in the motor and limped it home as fast as I could from the Smog test. I must say I'm so lucky this oil leak didn't blow open on the dyno rack while they were testing it. They would have failed me right on the spot. It happened after I came back to pick up my 2019 reg stickers. I was so excited to smog it I forgot any of my paper work, registration included so I had to go back there after I smogged it. When I pulled back into the lot of the smog shop it dumped the oil all over his floor.

After looking good and hard at it and poking around... It's not the oil pan. It's the timing cover gasket. I must have over tightened it. Or is it possible for the 46mm crank socket to be over tightened pushing the pan further into the motor causing the gasket to blow out?

I'm already mentally tearing the front end down in my head to get this over with. I'll order a new gasket right away. Do I need a new front seal you think?

Take a look... I used a youtube vid to figure out how to post a youtube vid. J/k it was actually really easy.

 

[joebattle1]

A couple of pics of the cork gasket blowing out of the bottom. So weird...

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Buy a new seal regardless. Could’ve you had a wear ring around the crank nose? You might need to set the seal further in or out to offset it. Like I said in my post. Go slow. Be methodical. No reason to rush. It’s not your DD. Show us pics before jumping knee deep this time.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

That gasket looks more rubbery than the brown and black gasket I’m used to seeing. Definitely pushed out. Like I said, slow down and keep folks in contact before finishing a step.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Guessing you read it but the screws have to be specifically placed around the cover. As well as you install cover, finger tighten screws, push hb on, tighten the nut, THEN finish tightening all the timing cover screws which means, yes unless you have a fancy open box style attachment for a torque wrench, you can not fully set the torque on them. You have to go by feel.

 

[joebattle1]

Guessing you read it but the screws have to be specifically placed around the cover. As well as you install cover, finger tighten screws, push hb on, tighten the nut, THEN finish tightening all the timing cover screws which means, yes unless you have a fancy open box style attachment for a torque wrench, you can not fully set the torque on them. You have to go by feel.

Yes, I got all the bolts going in the right holes. Page 6 post #119. I drilled them all into a cardboard cut out.

I can pretty much retrace my steps and think about a cpl places I went wrong here.

1. I was using the 3fe service manual as I didn't know the 1980 service manual was my motor so I'm guessing I over torqed that 46mm nut a bit.

2. You're right... I got the sequence wrong because I didn't understand how you could torque those down after the big pulley was back in place so I torqued them before the pulley went back on with my torque wrench. It's really hard to gauge torque on a cork gasket but you're right... That's what I have to do... Do it by hand.

This was always eating at the back of my mind. When I think through it... I'm not surprised I screwed this part up at all. I thought I could cheat by... Nope.

Maybe I can carve out some time tomorrow to rip it all apart again and wait for a new gasket...

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

And w/ many of us novice mechanics this is how we learn... from our mistakes.

 

[Gretsch]

This sucks man. Sorry to read this. I was prepared to do the same thing as you when doing this work on mine. The FSM spells it out pretty clear about the timing cover and the order of operations to put it back on but it did not make sense to me at the time so I almost discounted it. I was lucky enough to have @emac explain the reasoning to me before I did it and then it made perfect sense. Also reminded me about the sealer on the bottom two bolts, which the FSM also mentions but I might have looked past if not reminded. Apparently those bolts seat into the front main bearing cap and if not sealed provide a direct path for oil to find the ground.

@NeverGiveUpYota also mentioned to me the bit about the bottom bolt torque and no access with a torque wrench once the pulley is on at the time which I did not realize. I tried to find some slick tool to set the torque properly but in the end went hand tight. I used no sealer on the gasket other than that spray red tack stuff. Went on dry other than that and still leak free after several months.

 

[emac]

Dang that sucks. Dont worry we have all done it. After enough mistakes, they call you experienced. Many places are hard to torque on cars. After a while you get a feel for torque on various fasteners. 10mm bolts you should be using 1/4 in drives and small wrenches and hold the wrench close to the bolt. You can always add more torque, but once you crush the gasket, its done.

Everyone has an opinion on gaskets, I personally like to use permatex high tack.

 

[joebattle1]

This sucks man. Sorry to read this. I was prepared to do the same thing as you when doing this work on mine. The FSM spells it out pretty clear about the timing cover and the order of operations to put it back on but it did not make sense to me at the time so I almost discounted it. I was lucky enough to have @emac explain the reasoning to me before I did it and then it made perfect sense. Also reminded me about the sealer on the bottom two bolts, which the FSM also mentions but I might have looked past if not reminded. Apparently those bolts seat into the front main bearing cap and if not sealed provide a direct path for oil to find the ground.

@NeverGiveUpYota also mentioned to me the bit about the bottom bolt torque and no access with a torque wrench once the pulley is on at the time which I did not realize. I tried to find some slick tool to set the torque properly but in the end went hand tight. I used no sealer on the gasket other than that spray red tack stuff. Went on dry other than that and still leak free after several months.

Thanks Robert, Yea totally blows. But I'm over the shock now and just waiting for the rains to subside so I can get after it again. At least now I've done it all so no head scratching to get it back down to the timing cover. Should go quick.

Dang that sucks. Dont worry we have all done it. After enough mistakes, they call you experienced. Many places are hard to torque on cars. After a while you get a feel for torque on various fasteners. 10mm bolts you should be using 1/4 in drives and small wrenches and hold the wrench close to the bolt. You can always add more torque, but once you crush the gasket, its done.

Everyone has an opinion on gaskets, I personally like to use permatex high tack.

Thanks @emac. I suppose you're right. I learn more and more with every vehicle I work on and every nut I turn which is actually pretty varied these days. Funny cause now my friends will bring their cars/trucks to ME for some repairs and since I like to help out... I've got my buddies 84 Volvo 240 out in front of my house right now waiting for me to finish the LC so I can do a water pump and a clutch for him. That's like more wrench turning knowledge in the brain bank...

 

[joebattle1]

Got a few hours this evening to get after it. Got the timing gear cover off. Amazing how fast it goes once you've done it a few times.

I definitely over tightened a few things. The 46mm nut for one. The two 14mm bolts on the timing gear cover. Although this could be due to the 46mm bolt being over tightened. Who knows... Lesson learned i hope.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Wow! Yeah that definitely looks like it was shifted around by the too tight cover screws and the tightening of the 46 too tight too. They both worked against each other.

 

[yotadude520]

We all have made mistakes like this so not a big deal! But holy guacamole that gasket got chewed up!

I remember the first time I ever did wheel bearings..it was on my old Ford Bronco. Took my time getting everything off and started "packing" the new bearings. All I did was smear grease over the outside of them! Sure enough I got them installed in the hub and my dad came out and asked how I packed them. I showed him and he showed me how it was supposed to be done. The way I did it there was no grease in the bearings and they'd fail pretty quick. Wish he would've came out earlier because it made me have to destroy the seal on the back of the hub and sent him to the parts store to get a new one!

It's how you learn, now you know exactly what to do next time.

 

[joebattle1]

We all have made mistakes like this so not a big deal! But holy guacamole that gasket got chewed up!

I remember the first time I ever did wheel bearings..it was on my old Ford Bronco. Took my time getting everything off and started "packing" the new bearings. All I did was smear grease over the outside of them! Sure enough I got them installed in the hub and my dad came out and asked how I packed them. I showed him and he showed me how it was supposed to be done. The way I did it there was no grease in the bearings and they'd fail pretty quick. Wish he would've came out earlier because it made me have to destroy the seal on the back of the hub and sent him to the parts store to get a new one!

It's how you learn, now you know exactly what to do next time.

Thanks man... Yea. All part of the journey and getting better...

 

[joebattle1]

Got it all put back together again. I didn't do a very good job taking pics... I was moving to fast and it's been raining. I was pretty methodical this go around... I cleaned the surface really good with Purple Power Degreaser. I followed the manual to a T and I bought all new hardware for the timing gear cover... I did have to guess on the torque spec on the timing cover but I was real conservative and went slow and even around the whole thing. I ran it in the driveway for a half hour. I'll drive it in the morning as I need to put the clutch cover on still.

 

[Kmonty66]

Nice! Congrats!

 

[2mountainfish]

Slow and steady wins the race, lol.

 

[hygge]

@joebattle1 this rain is definitely not making me super thrilled. I think we are in a similar boat. I don't have a garage, so I have to work outside.

I am pretty sure my neighbors love hearing me clank on things at 1 am. But when its raining and cold its pretty miserable trying to work on the truck outside.

Nice job on the reinstall ( part deux)! Hope it works out for you this time around.