This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
John in Utah
SILVER Star
I believe it. Not sure I would be comfortable running that much lighter of a flywheel. You want that extra weight to store the rotational energy required to overcome the higher compression in a diesel, especially at idle.
Might have missed it but are you doing a full rebuild?
- Thread starter
- #24
I did some more research, 3VZ-E is 22lbs, 3L solid mass is 44lbs.
However the flywheels on similar displacement VW TDI and MB IDI engines are all closer to 20-30 lbs. It seems like 44lbs is a little overkill? I think I'll try it with the 3VZ-E flywheel.
I may rebuild the engine, I may not. I'm going to disassemble and inspect it.
John in Utah
SILVER Star
Be interesting to see how it effects engine vibrations for sure. Should rev faster at the very least.
Keep us posted when you do tear into it. I have a 3L in the shed I’m itching to do a full rebuild on ... maybe this winter.
Got mine going the other day - 3L 2.8 diesel, R151F, 2.28/4.70 33's. In low low can go 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th in less than a car length lol.
- Thread starter
- #28
ALX4X4, that's pretty slick, what's top speed like for you?
I'm still waiting on parts, the importer here on the west cost closed down because of the fires, so I think I'll be importing them from roughtrax in the UK.
Here's a couple shots of my progress.
I'm still waiting on parts, the importer here on the west cost closed down because of the fires, so I think I'll be importing them from roughtrax in the UK.
Here's a couple shots of my progress.
- Thread starter
- #30
Head looks okay on the surface, I need to check it for warping and cracks still. Swirl chambers are cracked, but I've got 8 new ones on the way anyway.
The pistons have the outline of the intake valve on them... I'm hoping the valve isn't bent.
And the 3VZ-E flywheel, unfortunately, does not have the same bolt pattern as the 2LT-E.
John in Utah
SILVER Star
Rods and bearings are the same, so it might be possible. 2lte pistons are generally considered better for turbo applications, but I *think* later OEM 3L/5L piston part numbers are alfin style and have oil cooling passage to make up for this - but that’s just from looking at photos. There’s a thread somewhere I remember discussing this with @GTSSportCoupe, I’ll try to find it tonight.
If a 3L block is truly just a bored out 2L I don’t see why you couldn’t do it one way or another, but not sure it’s worth it in the end. Trust me when I say that the 2.8L with a CT20 is still no powerhouse.
GTSSportCoupe
2LTE abuser
Cracked pre-cups seems par for the course with most of these IDI engines. Replacing while you have the head off is a good idea.
Clean the pistons well and check to see if the valves made marks on the aluminum surface of the pistons. If the marks are only in the soot/carbon, it's probably fine (I've seen this before in my 2LTE). If the marks are in the aluminum of the piston top, it means someone put a new cylinder head on at one point and used too thin a headgasket. This is a common mistake and one of the first things to fail is the big end rod bearings (from being repeatedly hammered). The big end rod bearings are pretty easy to change just by pulling of the oil pan and oil pick-up. Might be a good idea if the pistons really did touch the valves. Also carefully inspect the whole valve train for damage.
I highly recommend ordering the thickest grade OEM Toyota headgasket when you put your motor back together. Also use brand new OEM Toyota head bolts. Clean the block/head surfaces very carefully as the gasket is MLS type and needs perfect surfaces. Follow the FSM torque procedure to a 'T'. It's quite the workout - don't rush it.
Once a 2LTE is tuned up, you probably won't notice the flywheel weight much. I wouldn't worry about it. Also remember it's a diesel.... If you want a 'revvy' engine, go for a gas motor.
Keep in mind both the 3L and 5L also have different cranks/rods with a longer stroke. So simply boring out the 2LTE won't get you far in terms of displacement.
Displacement is less critical on turbo motors anyhow. Want more air? Turn up the boost! Think of a turbo motor as 'variable displacement'. This is why they're becoming popular again (F150 engines for example). They can be an economical low displacement engine when you want them to be, or make power of a higher displacement engine when you need it.
Basically the power you make is a direct function of the air and fuel you put into the motor.
As your truck is lighter than an LJ78 for example, I think if you intercooled and tuned your 2LTE, your truck would go good. Definitely better than it ever did with the 3VZE! My truck weights 1000lb more, and I've passed many a 3VZE 4Runner/Pick-up on 8% grades at a good 20km+ faster speed.
The power of the 2LTE is limited by the 10mm injection pump. If big power is your goal, look at upgrading to a 12mm injection pump. I've looked into it, and the 1KZTE pumps are an option. 180-200hp would be possible with simultaneous turbo upgrade. You may have to switch to mechanical injection though, as I can't confirm the 2LTE ECU wouldn't overfuel (at idle) with the 1KZTE pump. Might be able to tune it to work using the fuel calibration resistor and spill valve adjust though. I just can't guarantee as I have not tried (yet...
. A suitable matching turbo would likely be a TD04L-13t-6 from a Subaru WRX turbo.Anyhow, get your 2LTE running well first before looking at big power upgrades. A stock 2LTE pump is good for about 140-150 crank hp and about 280ft/lb torque from what I've found. If you look here you can see my truck with stock pump (tuned) is not far off of a modern VDJ79 (V8 CRD turbo diesel). Not bad! Ih8mud diesel drag challenge
- Thread starter
- #34
Thanks for the replies John and GTS.
I did a little math, running 3L pistons and liners would bump displacement to 2.66 litres, and running 5L pistons and liners would bump displacement to 2.86 litres. I estimate that power (assuming fueling and boost are constant) should increase linearly with displacement. A couple internet calculators have led me to believe that 2.66 liter engine would return ~10% more power, and the 2.86 ~17% more power. So, depending on how much the machine shop would want to overbore the block to accept the larger liners, I may we'll go that route.
Three things have been on my mind however.
The oil squirters may have to be relocated
The liners are different lengths, and I'm not sure how to account for that
And the swirl chambers may not function as well with these oddball displacements. I have swirl chambers for the 3L, so they should work well for the 2.86 liter idea.
I haven't cleaned and inspected the pistons yet, however there are no sizable grooves in the piston that I can feel. It seems that the mark is in the soot on piston only thankfully. Sometime soon I'll pull the oil pan to remove the crank and pistons, and overhaul it all.
The flywheel from the 3VZE has a different bolt pattern from the The L series flywheels anyways. I was just hoping to be able to use a 3VZE clutch, that way I didn't have to import one next time I need a new one. Oh well.
Planning on keeping the 'ol CT-20 around. I've got one of your ecm boost fooling things GTS, and I'm planning to run about 16-18 lbs of boost with an air to air intercooler.
My estimations for power after everything is done are:
2.446L - 105hp/178ft/lb
2.663L - 116hp/196ft/lb
2.861L - 125hp/213ft/lb
We'll see what the dyno actually says when this is finished...
I did a little math, running 3L pistons and liners would bump displacement to 2.66 litres, and running 5L pistons and liners would bump displacement to 2.86 litres. I estimate that power (assuming fueling and boost are constant) should increase linearly with displacement. A couple internet calculators have led me to believe that 2.66 liter engine would return ~10% more power, and the 2.86 ~17% more power. So, depending on how much the machine shop would want to overbore the block to accept the larger liners, I may we'll go that route.
Three things have been on my mind however.
The oil squirters may have to be relocated
The liners are different lengths, and I'm not sure how to account for that
And the swirl chambers may not function as well with these oddball displacements. I have swirl chambers for the 3L, so they should work well for the 2.86 liter idea.
I haven't cleaned and inspected the pistons yet, however there are no sizable grooves in the piston that I can feel. It seems that the mark is in the soot on piston only thankfully. Sometime soon I'll pull the oil pan to remove the crank and pistons, and overhaul it all.
The flywheel from the 3VZE has a different bolt pattern from the The L series flywheels anyways. I was just hoping to be able to use a 3VZE clutch, that way I didn't have to import one next time I need a new one. Oh well.
Planning on keeping the 'ol CT-20 around. I've got one of your ecm boost fooling things GTS, and I'm planning to run about 16-18 lbs of boost with an air to air intercooler.
My estimations for power after everything is done are:
2.446L - 105hp/178ft/lb
2.663L - 116hp/196ft/lb
2.861L - 125hp/213ft/lb
We'll see what the dyno actually says when this is finished...
Last edited:
GTSSportCoupe
2LTE abuser
Sounds good!
One comment I'd give, is you'd have to carefully look at the bigger piston's geometry to make sure they'd even work with 2LTE rods/crank (for example is the piston pin a different diameter or in a different spot? Will TDC of piston top be too far down in the bore? Too far up?
Another thought is, ultimately your power is limited by the injection pump. You can't make more power than you have fuel. If the 2.4 limits the injection pump and still has lean AFR's (mine for example), is there anything to be gained by adding more displacement while retaining the same pump? Maybe more torque faster? But then a better turbo will give the same thing and be a lot easier to do....
Just thoughts.
One comment I'd give, is you'd have to carefully look at the bigger piston's geometry to make sure they'd even work with 2LTE rods/crank (for example is the piston pin a different diameter or in a different spot? Will TDC of piston top be too far down in the bore? Too far up?
Another thought is, ultimately your power is limited by the injection pump. You can't make more power than you have fuel. If the 2.4 limits the injection pump and still has lean AFR's (mine for example), is there anything to be gained by adding more displacement while retaining the same pump? Maybe more torque faster? But then a better turbo will give the same thing and be a lot easier to do....
Just thoughts.
- Thread starter
- #36
That's a good thought. I'll review piston length to make sure I'm not going to smack the head, and I'll double check that the piston pins are the same between the three engines. Off to megazip.net
I'm thinking that I should be able to turn up the fuel enough on my pump that I won't run out, I believe the conventional wisdom is 3/8 of a turn or less, any more and you risk runaway? I haven't read too much on that honestly.
I was also looking at increasing pop pressure to increase fuel efficiency, but then I would have to advance timing to make up for it.
GTSSportCoupe
2LTE abuser
The biggest efficiency loss on these motors is heat lost from the pre-cups to coolant. This is why direct injection diesels are more efficient: combustion bowl in the piston looses much less heat. It's also why they crack pistons instead of precups, LOL. I've played with higher pop pressures and did not gain any efficiency...., but did loose power, as the injection window was diminished.
In my experience the best ways to gain efficiency on the 2LTE are: Run lean AFR's (lots of oxygen to completely burn the fuel; ie. higher boost). Running higher coolant temps (88C t-stat) helps too - as less energy is lost to coolant. Of course a more efficient modern turbo would help also, as will running lower speeds to reduce air resistance, keep weight down, skinny tires at high pressure, etc.
I've turned up my spill valve 7/8 of a turn. I had mine go into runaway at 1 turn. Since then I've learned how to tell when the motor is getting close. Turn the screw in (fuel up) a tiny bit at a time, and rev the motor each time. If the revs start to hang, you're getting close to runaway. Back the screw off 1/8 from that point.
Note they don't go into runaway at idle - they have to be revved. So don't drive it until you're confident, or you might get an unpleasant surprise!
Also, don't turn up the fuel until you've intercooled it. Intercooling gives the extra headroom (more air) needed to keep the AFR's safe.
- Thread starter
- #38
That's good info about the spill-off valve, thank you. I'm aspiring for 30 US mpg highway, so I don't plan to get crazy with the fueling. And if the pop pressure doesn't help I may as well leave it be.
I'm trying to find a good intercooler that will fit behind my grille now. I've joined some VW TDI groups and I'm hoping to snag a used one from one of them.
Funny you should mention the thermal efficiency issue, I'm looking at ceramic coating my swirl chambers and pistons, a la the 2LTHE, to help with that. No local shops will do it however, so if I do it, I'll have to order the cerakote kit and do the spray and bake myself.
GTSSportCoupe
2LTE abuser
Cool, let us know how the ceramic coating of the pre-cups works out! I've often wondered about it. One thing I wondered is could it flake off and score the piston bores (worst case)?
One weird thing I've learned about pre-cups is they actually need to hold heat to aid in proper combustion.
2LTHE used a completely ceramic silicon-nitride pre-cup. I've thought of splurging on a brand new 2LTHE cylinder head a few times now.... Silicon-nitride is the same material Toyota made ceramic turbo turbines out of BTW. The silicon nitride pre-cups they made ran hotter (on the inside), but because of their insulating properties, were actually much cooler on the outside (loosing less energy to coolant).
It was around that time manufacturers ditched IDI tech for DI; otherwise ceramic precups may have been the way of the future.
John in Utah
SILVER Star
I put together a water-to-air intercooler and it fits well and does great. We have pretty much the same engine bay so you may consider going that route.
I’d have to confirm but I’m 98% sure the rods and pins are the same PN between the motors, so you should be fine with that geometry. I’d check compression though since the 3 and 5 are going to be higher, that may have been accomplished by designing taller pistons?
