Budget Snorkel Review

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mine was $330:flipoff2:

and Nick's does look good, however, when it comes to a part that drills holes in my fender and a pillar, and keeps water out of the engine, an extra couple hundred bucks is good piece of mind knowing it is heavily quality tested at ARB.

no offense nick, although if it offended you, i am ok with that too.
 
pfran42 said:
Here is an idea, don't charge $400 for a plastic tube with bag of hardware and the Chinese won't be motivated enough to copy it.
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or farm it out to their factories to produce it...

EDIT: I see Safari still assembles their stuff in Australia, which doe make me more likely to buy one. But, the price difference is pretty high...
 
That was a good read. They spent some time and money on that article.

What happens though if the Chinese manufactures step up their quality? Hard to prove they have not. The ARB article is not an independent source, right? They want your 300.00 bucks.

What would be nice is to see a big rebate or something to get the gap closer and make it moot to consider the knock off.

My buddies would say to me, "Davis you don't keep your rigs long enough to worry about the plastic degrading"...and our rig is garage kept.

I know that makes a huge difference.
 
While the rebate is a good idea, arb is a company that has to make money. If they are taking the time and money to develop polymers for the correct plastic, as well as r&d on the original design and testing, they have to charge more. The chinese take the design, that they spent no money designing, and then produce the product with cheaper plastics with much cheaper labor. Ill stick with my ARB for now. This is also ARB bumpers are pricey. They actually crash them. Thus, they destroy many vehicles etc to ensure a product that is safe, effective, and with excellent longevity.
 
I mentioned in my previous post that ARB posted the Chineese snorkel information on Facebook this afternoon... I do wonder if the newer Chineese snorkels have improved over the past few years... I also know there are several flavors of the Chineese versions on the market... At one point in time I was considering going in on a order of 10 just to see what the quality was like... I've seen several china models and a guy from Canada was selling them for all series Land Cruisers at one point as well (i thought I found him from posts on Mud at least a year ago or so)...

ARB released the snorkel quality report in 2009 so testing was done on snorkels made in China about 5 years ago... I am curious if quality control has improved and if the materials have gotten better... I know there are high quality products produced in China you just have to be very careful in what you purchase... I don't agree with everything going on in China but if they produce a quality product I will consider my options based on quality and price and then weigh my options...
 
We're kind of tangenting off, but I know a lot of "copies" are in fact made in the exact same factory as the original. Friend of mine worked for North Face and they were dismayed to see lots of copies of their jackets showing up on Ebay. Really good copies. Turns out it was their factory in China. They just pulled the jackets off the line before the TNF embroidery went on. They threatened legal action, which fell on deaf ears in China. They threatened to pull the manufacturing, but couldn't because of the cost and profit margin they had going.

With winches, lockers, and things like that I don't know that I'd want a knock-off. But with something like a snorkel, why not?
 
Just IMHO, but I'm building my rig to depend on it when I'm rolling on the side of a narrow road 3-6k up or I'm trenching through river after river I want the best gear I can get on my rig. However if I was building a rig to mostly play with then I'd be more prone to buy whatever. Everybody will have a different opinion and there will always be those who will swing one way or the other regardless of cost.

~Daniel

Sent from deep in the mountains of Honduras using only sticks and rocks.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
With winches, lockers, and things like that I don't know that I'd want a knock-off. But with something like a snorkel, why not?
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Exactly, its a roto molded plastic tube with a bag of screws......you have to try really hard to screw up something that simple. Also you could buy 4 of the knock-offs for the price on one real one:doh:

Also, I've learned enough about manufacturing and polymers at Tech to know that what they say about the plastic is really exaggerated, plus they paid for the lab to do the testing so its biased IMO.
 
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pman said:
Exactly, its a injection molded plastic tube with a bag of screws......you have to try really hard to screw up something that simple. Also you could buy 4 of the knock-offs for the price on one real one:doh:

Also, I've learned enough about manufacturing and polymers at Tech to know that what they say about the plastic is really exaggerated, plus they paid for the lab to do the testing so its biased IMO.
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So what are your thoughts after tonight's meetup? I feel that the SS and my snorkel are very similar. The snorkel body is identical, texture, etc. the seams on mine aren't as smooth, but honestly it looked like Safari "polished" the seams for a cleaner look. The snorkel head is different, cheaper quality for sure, doesn't fit as well on mine, nor has water slots.

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD
 
2000UZJ said:
So what are your thoughts after tonight's meetup? I feel that the SS and my snorkel are very similar. The snorkel body is identical, texture, etc. the seams on mine aren't as smooth, but honestly it looked like Safari "polished" the seams for a cleaner look. The snorkel head is different, cheaper quality for sure, doesn't fit as well on mine, nor has water slots.

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD
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Honestly like I said, I highly doubt you will have any problems with it. Even if you do, it will be a while before they surface, or your fault:D

Your snorkel is supposed to made of LLDPE. The only source for "concern" compared to a safari snorkel is the plastic, that said LLDPE is some tough s***. I doubt ARB got a team of chemical engineers and spent years in a lab coming up with a polymer and additives for their snorkels.

Just google "LLDPE UV stability", cold weather resistance and UV stable are the biggest strengths of LLDPE. Also realize that in reality there aren't a lot of companies that manufacture raw plastic granules for molding. Everyone gets the granules from a few companies, melts them down and injects them into their molds. So there is usually very little variation in quality within a type of plastic. Safari may add additives to their snorkels to boost UV resistance, but one I don't necessarily think its needed from my research and two, its very easy to buy the additive and mix it in, cause guess what, very few people make that stuff too.

Last point, this is more my personal feeling and based solely on my perception. There are knockoffs for so many products these day coming out of china, yet the manufacturers don't say anything about it other than to warn customers, to make sure that what they buy is genuine since the knockoffs often use their logo to make it seem legit. They don't compare the quality of their real product to the knockoff, because there is no comparison. In this case, they aren't even copying the logo.

So you have to ask yourself, why does Safari go to such length to say their product is better?

Makes me think they don't have confidence in their product vs the knockoff





Last thing, put everything I just said aside, at $88 its more than worth the gamble. A snorkel is not something that can fail in a catastrophic manner, it'll just crack, like my rear bumper. In 6 months to a year we will know for sure if its good or not. Until then, who cares it looks (and sounds) cool and works perfectly :D
 
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Well. one design is proven and one is not... What are the risks to your 100 if the unproven design doesn't work? As long as that risk is less than the money you saved, I say you are ahead and have a good deal. If not, then you are in a wait and see predicament.
 
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pman said:
Honestly like I said, I highly doubt you will have any problems with it. Even if you do, it will be a while before they surface, or your fault:D

Your snorkel is supposed to made of LLDPE. The only source for "concern" compared to a safari snorkel is the plastic, that said LLDPE is some tough s***. I doubt ARB got a team of chemical engineers and spent years in a lab coming up with a polymer and additives for their snorkels.

Just google "LLDPE UV stability", cold weather resistance and UV stable are the biggest strengths of LLDPE. Also realize that in reality there aren't a lot of companies that manufacture raw plastic granules for molding. Everyone gets the granules from a few companies, melts them down and injects them into their molds. So there is usually very little variation in quality within a type of plastic. Safari may add additives to their snorkels to boost UV resistance, but one I don't necessarily think its needed from my research and two, its very easy to buy the additive and mix it in, cause guess what, very few people make that stuff too.

Last point, this is more my personal feeling and based solely on my perception. There are knockoffs for so many products these day coming out of china, yet the manufacturers don't say anything about it other than to warn customers, to make sure that what they buy is genuine since the knockoffs often use their logo to make it seem legit. They don't compare the quality of their real product to the knockoff, because there is no comparison. In this case, they aren't even copying the logo.

So you have to ask yourself, why does Safari go to such length to say their product is better?

Makes me think they don't have confidence in their product vs the knockoff





Last thing, put everything I just said aside, at $88 its more than worth the gamble. A snorkel is not something that can fail in a catastrophic manner, it'll just crack, like my rear bumper. In 6 months to a year we will know for sure if its good or not. Until then, who cares it looks (and sounds) cool and works perfectly :D
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I have faith in my $88 china special. If hydrofluoric acid could dissolve a 100 to a liquid and the only thing left is my $88 china special, I would say a little heat, cold, and sun can't hurt. I just did some research and found out that "UV20" doesn't exist. I can't find it in any UV ratings, UV certifications, UV radiation (in which LLDPE plastic is resistant to UV radiation. I cannot find anything on "UV8" either. So If Safari really wants to say their snorkels are UV20 and mine is UV8, but can't provide any data to show customers that those numbers mean, than I'm sorry. The test is biased, and yes has good information and tests, but it's still biased IMO. I'd like to see the Chinese test the two snorkels and see which one makes it further before failing. In 6-8 months, we will see the snorkel after many months of sun and heat, dust and water. If the design is still in the shape it is in now, I'd say it's proven. 6-8 months on my rig is 2+ years on a stock rig. If the design fails, I will go with a proven design that is "UV20" and never look back. To each his own, I saw this in another post. I understand saving $300 after pouring thousands into building it. I wheel my truck damn hard, I don't do stuff for looks anymore, it would make it 15ft with me behind the wheel

jasonbraswell said:
Well. one design is proven and one is not... What are the risks to your 100 if the unproven design doesn't work? As long as that risk is less than the money you saved, I say you are ahead and have a good deal. If not, then you are in a wait and see predicament.
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If the snorkel fails, it's not like you don't have an air filter. Infact, even if the snorkel fails (cracks, shatters from branch strike) your intake will still be higher assuming the break is on the A-piller. You pull the snorkel off and snag another $88, or if you have your doubts after slamming into the tree, go buy a Safari.
 
jasonbraswell said:
Well. one design is proven and one is not... What are the risks to your 100 if the unproven design doesn't work? As long as that risk is less than the money you saved, I say you are ahead and have a good deal. If not, then you are in a wait and see predicament.
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2000UZJ said:
If the snorkel fails, it's not like you don't have an air filter. Infact, even if the snorkel fails (cracks, shatters from branch strike) your intake will still be higher assuming the break is on the A-piller.
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What Nick said and,

there is nothing special about the design, the knockoff looks like someone stole the mold from the safari factory and started using it, so in terms of design they are identical.

Also I don't see how it posses a risk to the 100. Sure it could break and start leaking in water, but I feel like it would be easy to notice a giant crack in the snorkel, plus how often do you drive through water that deep anyways?

Try all you want to make it seem like more, but at the end of the day, a snorkel is no more than a glorified plastic pipe, there is absolutely nothing special about it other than the material it is made of, which in this case does not seem to be a problem, at least so far.

To drive home the point about a snorkel basically being a pipe, PEX and LLDPE are commonly used to make pipes that are used in and around homes as alternatives to the PVC and copper variety.
 
Hey, I think you make an excellent data point in this subject. Lets see some real world testing
2000UZJ said:
If the snorkel fails, it's not like you don't have an air filter. Infact, even if the snorkel fails (cracks, shatters from branch strike) your intake will still be higher assuming the break is on the A-piller. You pull the snorkel off and snag another $88, or if you have your doubts after slamming into the tree, go buy a Safari.
Click to expand...
 
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jasonbraswell said:
Well. one design is proven and one is not... What are the risks to your 100 if the unproven design doesn't work? As long as that risk is less than the money you saved, I say you are ahead and have a good deal. If not, then you are in a wait and see predicament.
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Hey guys,

Just piping in here from the 80 section.

I think the only real question here is why or how are ARB/Safari claiming that their snorkels are "Made in Australia" when they clearly are not. Sounds like ARB/Safari are playing games. Semantics. They might be polishing the seams with a buffer in Australia, but that's just some technicality or legal snafu they're using then to justify "Made in Australia".

I'm loving my $155 eBay snorkel. If ARB is going to outsource Aussie jobs to China, and China isn't going to play fair either, then why should I pay $380 for something I can get for $155?

Cui Bono? Me!

Caveat Emptor. Thanks to 'Mud, my risk was substantially reduced in this case.
 
i bet it's the same design, the same material and rolling off the same factory without the same packaging...


and let's be honest here: there are a ton of homemade snorkels running around made out of PVC, exhaust tubing, and other materials. they havent undergone extensive "tests" by ARB engineers or anybody else and they have performed just fine in many situations on a plethora of vehicles.
 
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