RET2
SILVER Star
Which begs the question why not just weld a nut on the replacement plug to start with and prevent future issues? Or am i being simplistic?
Any tips to remove front diff drain plug?
- Thread starter jafo9
- Start date
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Probably a good idea, but I already put the chisel to it and bought the other style plug with a nut on it. Going to put anti-seize on it also.
Not a bad idea, but the heat from welding generally demagnetizes the metal.
I think if I have this problem, I'll just weld a piece of bar stock to the plug rather than a nut to pop it free.
I'll bump this again. To be clear, brass hammer on the drain plug. Strike the brass hammer with another heavy hammer. I use a 24 or 32oz ball peen b/c thats what I have in my tool box. I've done many services on the 200 and never failed me.
bloc
SILVER Star
The heat from welding could also warp the sealing flange on a new plug.
Unnecessary when the Lexus part has a 14mm bolt head machines into it already.
Unnecessary when the Lexus part has a 14mm bolt head machines into it already.
RET2
SILVER Star
Winner winner Chicken dinner!!
bloc
SILVER Star
Oh and personally I wouldn’t put anti seize on the new plug. Usually it’s a ground up metal compound with an oil carrier. not what you’d want in your diff oil. Plus if any gets on the crush washer it won’t be a perfect seal.
I really believe that as long as we are pulling the plug with something actually large enough.. as in not a 10mm Allen.. these should come out without issue.
I really believe that as long as we are pulling the plug with something actually large enough.. as in not a 10mm Allen.. these should come out without issue.
I’m in this mess as when I went to change my fluid found out that the dealer (only other person to touch my vehicle) hammered a Torx bit in the lower drain plug home. I’m guessing the tech did this to get it out. Fine but then put the same plug back in. So here I am...
RET2
SILVER Star
Well, all is far from lost. First make sure you are able to remove fill plug because it would be a real bummer to get the drain plug and fluid out then not be able to refill?. The chisel method as well as local heat application are two alternatives to the welding (really just tack welds) a nut onto the plug. 
job
jobWell I finally got mine out. Put it on the lift at the auto hobby shop. Tried the chisel for 30 min. No luck. Then I hammered a large torx bit in the hole and used a 40” breaker bar. The guy in the bay next to me (who was putting a LS1 in a GTR) used a pry bar leavered against the end of my bar to hold the bit in and... loose.
The fluid in there was nasty. Much worse than the rear and center. I’m guessing Lexus messed up when removing it and didn’t change it at 30k
The fluid in there was nasty. Much worse than the rear and center. I’m guessing Lexus messed up when removing it and didn’t change it at 30k
Well, I am having trouble with the drain plug as well. This is the first time I've had to change the diff oil since I became the owner...not the sort of surprise you want. Counting my blessings as so many other things (including rust) are in great shape on this rig. Still, very obnoxious, this was to be a fun and easy task...
What's frustrating is that previously it was all dealer serviced. I'm thinking the bolt got over-torqued or seized up a long time ago and they were just using the fill port to suction out and refill. Reason I say that is there was already a notch in the plug and a gash in the diff housing, so someone tried some kind of mechanical persuasion and it probably didn't work. If they had been able to get the plug out I think they wouldn't have re-used it in the condition I found it. The internal hex was already partially rounded, too, so that is really what caused things to go south. I didn't look closely enough last night but maybe the gash in the plug rim folded it down a bit and is has the bolt locked in somewhat...but then again I put a lot of torque in and no movement.
I thought I had a good enough fit with my 10mm hex bit but even with penetrating oil, smacking it with a deadblow, and even trying hammering with a brass drift to loosen...it would not budge. Because of the partial rounding and all my breaker bar efforts, it's now almost fully rounded out. I guess my next steps in order are:
Any tips on how to safely apply heat with a torch so that it doesn't catch the oil on fire or mess up the FIPG/gaskets etc?
If #1 and #2 don't work, I'll try to take it to a good mechanic because I think they could safely weld and extract for maybe an hour's worth of labor. I'm concerned about the welding, though, if it will fry any electronics? People of course say to disconnect the negative battery wire, but I think the wiring harness must be grounded to the chassis in a lot of other locations and therefore vulnerable to current coming from the welding operation.
I think I will replace with the standard drain plug and stick to some kind of high quality 10mm hex next time. If I change the diff oil every 15,000 miles (probably 1 yr for me), then I think that's enough action to avoid all this seizing nonsense, eh?
Anti-seize seems like an interesting idea but someone in this thread expressed concern about that getting into the diff. And on my end I think that would increase the torque requirement for the plug, right? Don't want to get back into an over-torque situation.
Hey, @2001LC did you use the FSM specified 29 ft-lbf for the 90341-24016, or something else?
What's frustrating is that previously it was all dealer serviced. I'm thinking the bolt got over-torqued or seized up a long time ago and they were just using the fill port to suction out and refill. Reason I say that is there was already a notch in the plug and a gash in the diff housing, so someone tried some kind of mechanical persuasion and it probably didn't work. If they had been able to get the plug out I think they wouldn't have re-used it in the condition I found it. The internal hex was already partially rounded, too, so that is really what caused things to go south. I didn't look closely enough last night but maybe the gash in the plug rim folded it down a bit and is has the bolt locked in somewhat...but then again I put a lot of torque in and no movement.
I thought I had a good enough fit with my 10mm hex bit but even with penetrating oil, smacking it with a deadblow, and even trying hammering with a brass drift to loosen...it would not budge. Because of the partial rounding and all my breaker bar efforts, it's now almost fully rounded out. I guess my next steps in order are:
- Try to hammer in a Torx 55 bit
- This source says a T55 measures 11.22mm so I would hope that if the socket is rounded out, the Torx teeth will be larger by about a millimeter which might make for a nice tight fit once it's bit into the metal
- Try the chisel method
- Try a weld/nut combo (would likely take to mechanic)
Any tips on how to safely apply heat with a torch so that it doesn't catch the oil on fire or mess up the FIPG/gaskets etc?
If #1 and #2 don't work, I'll try to take it to a good mechanic because I think they could safely weld and extract for maybe an hour's worth of labor. I'm concerned about the welding, though, if it will fry any electronics? People of course say to disconnect the negative battery wire, but I think the wiring harness must be grounded to the chassis in a lot of other locations and therefore vulnerable to current coming from the welding operation.
I think I will replace with the standard drain plug and stick to some kind of high quality 10mm hex next time. If I change the diff oil every 15,000 miles (probably 1 yr for me), then I think that's enough action to avoid all this seizing nonsense, eh?
Anti-seize seems like an interesting idea but someone in this thread expressed concern about that getting into the diff. And on my end I think that would increase the torque requirement for the plug, right? Don't want to get back into an over-torque situation.
Hey, @2001LC did you use the FSM specified 29 ft-lbf for the 90341-24016, or something else?
bloc
SILVER Star
hammer firmly around the edge of the plug. This will compress the copper gasket and make it much easier to get out. I've done this successfully on two frozen plugs so far and it seems to work great, and is low risk.
With regard to heat, nothing you have at home is likely to cause issues with the fluid or RTV. between the aluminum housing and fluid in the diff the thermal capacity is HUGE.. it'll be fine.
To my knowledge there isn't any reason to use a value other than the specified torque even on the different plug.
With regard to heat, nothing you have at home is likely to cause issues with the fluid or RTV. between the aluminum housing and fluid in the diff the thermal capacity is HUGE.. it'll be fine.
To my knowledge there isn't any reason to use a value other than the specified torque even on the different plug.
2001LC
SILVER Star
Yes 29ft-lbf .
RET2
SILVER Star
If it were mine I would have a nut welded on the offending plug remove and replace with the Lexus part that has external hex head. Trying to chisel or remove by other means could injure the actual housing. Of course the standard warning of loosening the fill plug first is mentioned.
A welded nut does seem like the best when all this torque needs to be overcome. Any idea on safety of the electronics if I used a MIG to tack weld? Would need to ground to the diff housing I think as the closest thing possibly get a bite on. Mostly just open to discussion about it as I think most people do it frequently and/or would say it's fine.
RET2
SILVER Star
On the two I have welded for others the amount of torque was surprisingly small. I suspect the heat from the weld facilitated this and yes to Mig welder. On one I welded a hex head bit that was inserted into stripped opening the other one a nut was welded to plug. I actually prefer the hex bit as it was easier for me to see where I was welding versus welding inside of a nut.
bloc
SILVER Star
Yes. The heat from welding causing uneven expansion will make it come loose easily. I've removed a number of seized/broken exhaust studs this way.. they often spin right out after the welding.
+1 for welding. I then had the external head part also seize (was put back on by the team that did my front gears) . . . so welded like a 22mm over that, and I'm rolling with that one going forward. Ugly - yes. Will come off for service - yes.
Bought a toaster welder just for this. And I don't regret it.
Bought a toaster welder just for this. And I don't regret it.
Well it's out. None of my efforts worked, including a lot of heat, chiseling, hammering, Torx bit (probably would be a good technique in general but the socket was already too big). Great mechanic down the road got it out with no welding--I asked how but he kept it a secret heh...
Looks like the last thread near the lip has some kind of corrosion so I think that may have played a role here. Replaced with a brand new plug (same style) and torqued to spec. Nice tight fit with the 10mm hex. Was just happy to see clean oil and nothing scary on the magnet. Thanks for all the help, everyone!
Looks like the last thread near the lip has some kind of corrosion so I think that may have played a role here. Replaced with a brand new plug (same style) and torqued to spec. Nice tight fit with the 10mm hex. Was just happy to see clean oil and nothing scary on the magnet. Thanks for all the help, everyone!
