Any tips to remove front diff drain plug?

[M1911]

The turnover is insane. It’s rare for me to go into the dealer and see someone that was there 6 months ago. In the 5 years I’ve had my LX only one salesman is still there and they have gone through at least 3 sales managers and service managers, probably similar in the back of the house.

However even with “Alaska problems” - (Amazon prime can take 2 weeks, free shipping to lower 48 only, if a barge goes down we run out of dairy, RV traffic all summer, limited local competition/choice,...) there is no way I would live anywhere else.

Even in the lower 48, turnover in sales staff at dealers is in the neighborhood of 100%. Some high end dealers may have lower turnover, but your typical high pressure, “gotta talk to my manager” type of dealer probably exceeds 100% turnover.

 

[KLF]

Even in the lower 48, turnover in sales staff st dealers is in the neighborhood of 100%. Some high end dealers may have lower turnover, but your typical high pressure, “gotta talk to my manager” type of dealer probably exceeds 100% turnover.

It's been my experience that this is true, at Toyota dealers. All of my terrible experiences at car dealers have been at Toyota.

The guy that sold me my current '15 200 has been selling cars for over 30 years at the same BMW dealership. He was a pleasure to work with, none of the "manager" nonsense. And I had the same experience when I bought the '11 200 series from a Land Rover dealership. It was "here's what we can do, take it or leave it" but very professional.

 

[dwai]

Mine was stuck and ended up stripping the plug. Had drill that mofo out.

 

[lxid]

I got the same issue. Bolt was previously stripped and they somehow put a thin strip of metal in there. Had to pound my bit in. I soaked it with pb-blaster for a week after seeing this thread. I also bought a wiha bit.

Bit broke first attempt with breaker bar. Bought a new bit and still can't budge it. Tried standing on the bar and pounding with a 5lb hammer with a smaller attachment. The thing won't budge. Afraid to go much harder what is the possibility of damaging the diff????

 

[RET2]

Find a competent welder and Mig weld a 10mm allen socket to the plug. You only need to tack it on 2 sides not all the way around. Let cool a bit and remove voila. Be sure to replace crush washer and torque to spec. Also best to insure the fill plug comes out easy first.

 

[EatsManyHotDogs]

Heat is you friend. If all else fails the welding trick is a sure thing. Be sure to replace crush washer as it can prevent the tendency to over tighten to head off leakage.

Totally agree. Propane torch should be enough.

 

[2001LC]

Once you get a good bite on HEX head, you need the leverage of 3/4" breaker bar. No flex is key in delivering power from the 3/4" to break drain plug free. But I doubt you'll damage the case, bugger the plug perhaps.

 

[lxid]

My bit is hammered in tight and using a 24" breaker bar. I sprayed more pb blaster and going to try hitting it with a propane torch tomorrow.

 

[bloc]

Propane/whatever the yellow bottle gas is didn’t make a difference in my case. I didn’t get out the peanut rig.. was worried about smoking the oil inside the case.

Anyone with a welder can add an appropriate sized nut to the face and it’ll come right out. Once you see how well this works you’ll be tempted to throw all of your bolt extractors and stuff like hat away

 

[2001LC]

A little store on tough bolt and lesson I learned.

One of the toughest bolts I've ever broken loose was the crank bolt on a Lexus IS300. My son and I each had 5' extensions pipe on our bars. He holding the harmonic balance with a chain wrench with his 5' extension and I attempting to turn the nut with my 5' extension on a 1/2" breaker bar. The 1/2" breaker flexed. No go, we could not get this bolt to break loose. We button it back up and decided to what until spring to for T-belt job.

That spring we went back work on this crank bolt. With advice from the most senior Lexus mechanic in the state of Co and tools borrowed from him, we broke the bolt loose.

His advices; NO FLEX, if any part of tool flexes bolt/nut wins.
Tool he lent me, 3/4" breaker bar and 3/4" drive socket.

Since then, I've pick up a 3/4" breaker bar from HF. If I can keep a hex bit or socket on any nut or bolt, in will bust it loose or snap it. It wins every time. NO FLEX! in the "bad boy"

My first 200 series front Differential bolt was very tight, but doable.

I used this 3/4" breaker bar on two of these drain plug now, along with my new 10mm hex socket (from HF, not a quality socket with rounded edges). On first plug I was able to keep a good bite on the plug, and with all my might I broke drain plug loose. That plug had been removed before by Lexus Dealer. I now realize that' mechanic smack plug bending the lip/washers head, likely to shock loose.

The second drain plug was factory torqued in and I buggered the hex bolt head;

I could not keep a bite with my hex socket on this virgin plug and so damaged the hex head of plug.

Once damaged, I had a few choices.

1. Pound in a star (torque) socket, see if i could get solid bit. (Pound shock on threads could help break loose, but pound straight into case risky)
2. Weld on nut and go at it. (The heat alone was sure to help)
3. Tap Tap Tap it out with a chisel. (fastest, least risk of damaging alternative for me)

Tap Tap Tap worked very well for me, 3 minutes and done.

I think this so easy, it is worth repeating. Using a sharp cold chisel. Starting with a 5lb hammer hitting dead on to score the large head/washer of plug right up next to the copper washer/gasket. Then tap tap tap with a 1lb hammer, angling to slide chisel across top of copper washer/gasket without cutting into it. Then changing angle of chesil to direct force to turn head CCW. By placing a match mark on plug, it allowing me to see it's movement as it broke loose just a little at a time. The hits with 5lb and then tap tap tap with 1lb shocking threads, seems to really help free up threads. The tap tap tap in a CCW direction took a lot of taps but worked really well.

It did damage the washer head of plug, but Not so bad that I couldn't have filed and reused.

I did mare the differential case just a little, but no real damage was done.

Next one I do:
I'll soak plug with penetration oil again, maybe even heat then cool with P. oil.
I'll have a better 10mm hex socket with 1/2" drive. It will have the sharpest edges on hex I can find.
I'll use the 3/4 breaker bar again.

If I damage head again, I'll go straight to my chesil without a doubt. It's faster then welding, take less equipment (welder) and is so easy.

 

[coleAK]

2001LC. I’m headed to the auto shop on base Friday to tackle my lower plug. Thank you very much for all the advice.

 

[lxid]

After heating and cooling with pb blaster I finally stripped the bolt to much. Debating the chisel or bringing it to the local mechanic. Damaging the diff would really make for a bad day. It's crazy how stuck this thing is. I ordered the non-hex plug now also as I really don't want to deal with it again.

 

[RET2]

I've been told the plug was designed out of softer material than the case on purpose (think sacrificial link) but perhaps to soft. Hopefully the improved replacement is better. Very interesting on the flex issue.

 

[2001LC]

I wasn't what you'd call gentle, but it was my first time.

I was purposeful in going at it with each strike of the hammer and mindful of chisel angle. Piece of cake job with good light and tools.
1/2 Banana job at best!

Just have a good sharp chisel and proper weight hammers in hand. The force is in same direction drain plug is designed to travel. So no worries of damaging case.

Watch some youtube, see it done. You'll see various technique such as done using center punch on nuts.

You'll still have all option open to you.

 

[bloc]

Chisel will definitely work but is much more likely to damage the case than having a shop weld a nut on. Whether it be from a bad hammer blow or chisel angle or slip.. or the flange of the plug deforming enough to get through the crush washer and harm the case sealing surface.

Also these plugs are steel. No way they are softer than the aluminum case. This is likely a problem on so many trucks simply because the thread and flange diameters are oversized for that little 10mm hex hole. That is capable of enough torque to prevent leaks and loosening by itself, but probably didnt take into consideration all of the heat cycling and vibration causing it to lock up.

I seem to remember newer trucks coming with the updated part. Or maybe I’m thinking of the kdss valve screws.

 

[RET2]

I did not mean to infer that the plug was softer than the case but that the plug wasn't a very hard variety of steel.

 

[2001LC]

Also these plugs are steel. No way they are softer than the aluminum case. This is likely a problem on so many trucks simply because the thread and flange diameters are oversized for that little 10mm hex hole. That is capable of enough torque to prevent leaks and loosening by itself, but probably didnt take into consideration all of the heat cycling and vibration causing it to lock up.

Welding on nut is and excellent way to skin this cat. Not only will the heat on dissimilar metals expand and contract at different rates freeing up bonded thread, it give a nice nut to put on six sided socket or boxed end wrench. But, welding equipment are not readily available to the DIYer. Hammers and chisel are.

I agree the steel drain plug is harder than the aluminum case. But seems Toyota could have used a harder steel. I say this because harder steels in aluminum reduce chances of Galling for one. It would also reduce instance of the HEX portion of the plug from stripping. Admittedly my new 10mm HEX was a cheapo from HF, the fit was tight but corner not as sharp as a better quality hex socket would have been. A good 10mm HEX socket may have got the job done, without stripping drain plugs head. But the amount of force I applied with my 3/4 breaker was extreme, even before head gave way.

I made a statement earlier about softer metal of drain plugs. That was "in general" what we see from Toyota. The number one example of this is the drain plug of the transmission pan. I have, as have others in mud, had one of these strip out. First time it happen to me I pulled the pan only to find I just need new drain plug and too clean the threads of pan. Pan is a harder steel than the plug by design in general throughout Toyota.

Harder steel plug or coated like the Denso spark plugs (nickel coat IIRC) can really make a difference, as can adding a dab of anitsize. Why Toyota used a copper washer here, I question. I suspect engineers had concern of issue we are seeing. Did copper washer gasket make this issue better or worst IDK.

I don't think Toyota has made a replacement plug, as part number has not changed. Dealers I called, all stocked the same plug as factory installed.

As far as damaging Aluminum case, using chisel method. Well one would really have to try! I've used chiesl w/hammer and air chisel tools many times pounding out steel cup bushing from aluminum front differential housing and steering racks of the 100 series. Other than maring the aluminum with "wild" hits, I've never crack a case nor heard of anyone doing. I'm talking about pounding on for 10 or 20 minutes with air chisel for just one bushing in some cases. I could have used air chisel here on this drain plug, but did not see the need to as hand tools did the job so easily and are more controllable (surgical).

I wish I made a video for mud, than everyone would see how easy it is to chisel. It's a piece of cake really!
Here one the guy didn't even stay in his score and part (fan bracket) bolt was in was moving.

Here a one showing many ways most not applicable, but at ~4:10 minute mark he chisels using heavy hits rathen then my tap tap tap. He also shows wielding on nut after that as just one more method..

 

[2001LC]

Here's a couple of pictures of my copper washers (drain plug gasket).

Red arrow show point I started at (scored with 5lb hammer & chisel dead on before angling). Yellow oval shows where drain plug slide along washer barely maring and protecting case from maring as I Tap Tap Tap it off. Hard to see with nake eye, as it did very little damage or maring.

No warping or even maring on underside of washer (butts to case side)

 

[bloc]

Sure. I’m not saying not to use a chisel, only that there are arguably more risks involved if someone goes at it like crazy. Also.. in your case the washer damage was minimal, but you have experience. For someone who’s plug is more seized and might not have experience and the quality of tools.. it simply might not work, or more damage could happen.

My main point to the DIY aspect of welding is most decent mechanic shops have one as well as a 4-post lift. if not a muffler shop.. and it’s so quick will probably do it for a $20. Have them weld the nut on and crack it loose, then retighten to a reasonable amount. Now take your truck home and do the fluid change and install the updated Lexus part posted previously.

You can even remove your skid plates beforehand if you want to streamline their work (and mitigate the risk of them losing bolts or installing things incorrectly)


OR.. it’s a good excuse to buy a welder. We all needed one right? Right?

 

[lxid]

Attempted the chisel for quite a while and it didn't budge. Ended up taking it to get a nut welded on. He instead just welded a piece of scrap on and used a large wrench and it's finally off.