gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
Noticed the same thing for mine... could be? They are only $80 (yes the HD) from RockAuto though and $14 shipping for me.
Another CV Axle Discussion Thread
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JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
Just FYI: The part number for the Cardone HD axle is 66-5185HD. This is the one with the thermoplastic boot. Currently listed at $69/axle on CarID.com, which with shipping comes out to $76/axle.
One thing that I forgot to mention in my previous post was that when I did briefly have that new Cardone HD axle, I test fit two new OEM hub flanges to it. It was a very tight fit, slightly tighter than a new OEM axle. Zero backlash at the splines for the Cardone HDs, and some although nominal backlash for the OEM splines (I did not measure backlash, but could feel a very small amount in the OEMs). I think the pressure angle used when machining the splines may be slightly different between Cardone HD and OEM. My anecdotal test fit of two new OEM hub flanges suggests the Cardone HDs have splines created with a wider pressure angle than OEM splines, which presumably could translate to the Cardone HD splines being slightly stronger than the OEM splines (i.e., wider pressure angle = stronger, but with diminishing returns beyond 45 degrees). I'm not a machinist or engineer, though, so this may all be
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
When the time comes I will test mine and if possible post a video as I will be doing all that. Originally I had planned to do all the hub, wheel bearings, etc. first and then later do the axles but at this rate I might as well just replace everything at once and call it good instead of going in multiple times.Just FYI: The part number for the Cardone HD axle is 66-5185HD. This is the one with the thermoplastic boot. Currently listed at $69/axle on CarID.com, which with shipping comes out to $76/axle.
One thing that I forgot to mention in my previous post was that when I did briefly have that new Cardone HD axle, I test fit two new OEM hub flanges to it. It was a very tight fit, slightly tighter than a new OEM axle. Zero backlash at the splines for the Cardone HDs, and some although nominal backlash for the OEM splines (I did not measure backlash, but could feel a very small amount in the OEMs). I think the pressure angle used when machining the splines may be slightly different between Cardone HD and OEM. My anecdotal test fit of two new OEM hub flanges suggests the Cardone HDs have splines created with a wider pressure angle than OEM splines, which presumably could translate to the Cardone HD splines being slightly stronger than the OEM splines (i.e., wider pressure angle = stronger, but with diminishing returns beyond 45 degrees). I'm not a machinist or engineer, though, so this may all be
I'm no expert, but maybe since gx aren't built to the same 25 year service life standard it makes sense that GX crew prefer a tougher CV axle available aftermarket. Now in the LC world you can't beat OEM because stock are tough as nails from the factory?
just a thought...
I can only speak from my own experience, but here's my story:
I bought my LX 5 years ago, and immediately put some real tires on it and started wheeling it. It had 160K miles and only 2 previous owners, who maintained it meticulously and never abused it. Anyway, about a year into ownership, I noticed small cracks in the cv boots, and wanting to avoid any problems, I bought the Toyota OEM reboot kit. I had never done any axle work before, but I had the FSM and got to work removing and taking apart the CVs to clean, grease, and reassemble them. Well, when I opened up the joints, I discovered that my axles were not OEM. Instead of the Rzeppa design, mine were a tripod type joint. I had already put so much work into them, that I decided to just reboot these with the Toyota boots. My aftermarket CV tulips have a smaller diameter than stock, so it took some work to get the boots to tighten around them with the clamps supplied by Toyota. Also, I used the entire tube of grease in the kit, not thinking about my joints being smaller, so I did have some overflow squeezing out of the boots after a test drive.
But so far, I've put 70k miles (probably 20k+ offroad) and 4 years on these aftermarket CVs, and have yet to experience any failure or issues. If I had more money to spend on this type of thing at the time, I would have just bought new OEM CVs for peace of mind, but because I didn't, I'm a lot less afraid of aftermarket axles than I used to be.
I bought my LX 5 years ago, and immediately put some real tires on it and started wheeling it. It had 160K miles and only 2 previous owners, who maintained it meticulously and never abused it. Anyway, about a year into ownership, I noticed small cracks in the cv boots, and wanting to avoid any problems, I bought the Toyota OEM reboot kit. I had never done any axle work before, but I had the FSM and got to work removing and taking apart the CVs to clean, grease, and reassemble them. Well, when I opened up the joints, I discovered that my axles were not OEM. Instead of the Rzeppa design, mine were a tripod type joint. I had already put so much work into them, that I decided to just reboot these with the Toyota boots. My aftermarket CV tulips have a smaller diameter than stock, so it took some work to get the boots to tighten around them with the clamps supplied by Toyota. Also, I used the entire tube of grease in the kit, not thinking about my joints being smaller, so I did have some overflow squeezing out of the boots after a test drive.
But so far, I've put 70k miles (probably 20k+ offroad) and 4 years on these aftermarket CVs, and have yet to experience any failure or issues. If I had more money to spend on this type of thing at the time, I would have just bought new OEM CVs for peace of mind, but because I didn't, I'm a lot less afraid of aftermarket axles than I used to be.
- Thread starter
- #86
Just FYI: The part number for the Cardone HD axle is 66-5185HD. This is the one with the thermoplastic boot. Currently listed at $69/axle on CarID.com, which with shipping comes out to $76/axle.
One thing that I forgot to mention in my previous post was that when I did briefly have that new Cardone HD axle, I test fit two new OEM hub flanges to it. It was a very tight fit, slightly tighter than a new OEM axle. Zero backlash at the splines for the Cardone HDs, and some although nominal backlash for the OEM splines (I did not measure backlash, but could feel a very small amount in the OEMs). I think the pressure angle used when machining the splines may be slightly different between Cardone HD and OEM. My anecdotal test fit of two new OEM hub flanges suggests the Cardone HDs have splines created with a wider pressure angle than OEM splines, which presumably could translate to the Cardone HD splines being slightly stronger than the OEM splines (i.e., wider pressure angle = stronger, but with diminishing returns beyond 45 degrees). I'm not a machinist or engineer, though, so this may all be
Could it be that Cardone figures the axles would be installed on older/worn flanges? In this case the wider angle might be set to work with parts that are not all new.
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gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
Interesting.... your rig lifted or anything else done other than the bigger tires (what size?)???
I got a follow up from Nitro and they just responded saying that it is a ball bearing type not a Tripod type CV. No other indication of what would make their axles special. So looks like I will be grabbing a set of the Cardone's when the time comes, navigating this slowly but should hopefully have everything acquired in the next month or so.
I've been running 33" BFG KO2s since I bought it. I installed the AHC override from Slee shortly afterwards, and used it in high pretty frequently. I am now running a 2" lift without a diff drop and still on the same CVs. I have not gone easy on them either, and done some pretty extreme (for IFS) articulation, lots of towing and long distance driving, and plenty of desert trails at high speeds. Maybe I've been lucky, or maybe those who broke theirs were very unlucky.
JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
Certainly possible, since most people (non-MUD members) don't replace the hub flanges when doing wheel bearing job or CV axle replacement. I'd wager that most dealers don't even check the condition of splines in the hub flange when doing either of those jobs. However, I think the process of creating splines on the axle shaft being different between OEM and aftermarket is more plausible. For example, hobbed versus rolled, which could produce slight differences in spline width and depth. We need an engineer or machinist to chime in here!
As an aside, I found another plausible option for those of us that have OEM CV axles. ODM Europe makes a 6-ball outer joint + shaft that, even with shipping across the ocean, is half the price of an OEM outer joint + shaft. Measurements are identical to OEM and the 6-ball joint is identical to OEM. I presume the Europeans use these often, though I have absolutely no evidence to back that up. ODM Outer CV Joint Kit - Land Cruiser 100 series
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I have a bad OEM axle in my garage I swapped out with a new OEM axle when it started clicking. I can cut the boot off and take pics if yall want them to compare it to the chinese axles from napa.
JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
Some photos in this thread: CV Boots Replaced with directions I think we need somebody to use their lifetime warranty and chop up some of the aftermarket axles for comparison instead!
- Thread starter
- #92
The new flanges arrived this afternoon. Pictures below with the ID and OEM axle. The flanges have the same fit and feel on both axles.
Both easily slide on the splines and and seem to have the same amount of spline clearance. I cannot fault either axle in this area.
Pictures
New OEM flange with ID axle
New OEM flange with OEM axle
Both easily slide on the splines and and seem to have the same amount of spline clearance. I cannot fault either axle in this area.
Pictures
New OEM flange with ID axle
New OEM flange with OEM axle
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Chopping them would void the warranty.
JunkCrzr89
Competent Ignoramoose
Sarcasm...I didn’t mean it literally.
^^^^
Or...if like me, you didn't know RockAuto had them, you can go to your local NAPA store and (overpay) $120.00 each and $61.00 shipping (since the HD's are special order).
Just FYI: The part number for the Cardone HD axle is 66-5185HD. This is the one with the thermoplastic boot. Currently listed at $69/axle on CarID.com, which with shipping comes out to $76/axle.
One thing that I forgot to mention in my previous post was that when I did briefly have that new Cardone HD axle, I test fit two new OEM hub flanges to it. It was a very tight fit, slightly tighter than a new OEM axle. Zero backlash at the splines for the Cardone HDs, and some although nominal backlash for the OEM splines (I did not measure backlash, but could feel a very small amount in the OEMs). I think the pressure angle used when machining the splines may be slightly different between Cardone HD and OEM. My anecdotal test fit of two new OEM hub flanges suggests the Cardone HDs have splines created with a wider pressure angle than OEM splines, which presumably could translate to the Cardone HD splines being slightly stronger than the OEM splines (i.e., wider pressure angle = stronger, but with diminishing returns beyond 45 degrees). I'm not a machinist or engineer, though, so this may all be
I haven't installed mine yet....but I can confirm (at least with mine) that the splines on the Cardone HD when mated to NEW OEM flanges is indeed very tight. In my case...not able to install them fully by hand. I will try fitting to my original flanges as well....since those will have wear and 'might' be a factor Cardone figured in (or not).
It is also possible that the spline profile is marginally different than OEM. IF wider, as you suggest. IF so....then you will experience an interference fit right from the start (new flanges). As for strength...a wider profile (pressure angle) spline will be stronger but longevity will likely suffer since surface contact area is what we need (fitment of spline to flange).
I will post back...once I see how the Cardone splines fit my used flanges, they are certainly more than a little tight on the new flanges.
Just for fun, I've run the new flanges onto the splines of the CV and back off a few times and they are getting slightly better. At first I was tapping them on with a brass hammer, but decided it would be quicker to use an installer I have and a two jaw puller (neither one necessary, just faster). IF zero backlash is desirable...then these definitely deliver the goods.
I installed 2 NAPA Cardones and used existing flanges, no issues with them not fitting.
one side is almost 10k miles with tough offroading the other just installed and going on a tough ride this weekend.
2' ironman lift, no diff drop, 33' MTS 275/70/18 STT Pros, SPC UCA.
I am very happy with my cardones so far.
one side is almost 10k miles with tough offroading the other just installed and going on a tough ride this weekend.
2' ironman lift, no diff drop, 33' MTS 275/70/18 STT Pros, SPC UCA.
I am very happy with my cardones so far.
Reading all above I will definitely go with Cardone. I think tight fit in this case is preferred. Given that proper tools used, of course. Even ever slight movement on splines will just start process of them being "knocked loose" sooner.
gregnash
Anal Retentive Analyst
@flintknapper Interesting on the puller idea to run them on a bit prior to installation. I may have to invest in a cheap HF puller to do just that. Could you install one of the new flanges on the Cardone to the point where then face of the flange and the end of the axle are just flush and then take a pic from that front at as close a focal depth as possible. What I am looking/hoping to see is if you can see where the splines mate to the hub flange and possibly see a difference in the "shape" of the mating surface.
