FJBroBri
SILVER Star
So, I ordered a custom front bumper(with a never before requested bull bar) on it and a rear bumper with attachments from 4x4 Labs, in the middle of June, for my '99 LX470.
At that time I was told it'd be about six weeks to get them completed. I received them on September 10. 12.5 weeks later.
I had them delivered to my mechanic's shop: Mike's Custom Toys near to me in Grants Pass, Oregon. When he was able to fit me into his schedule, I delivered my rig to him and he removed my stock bumpers, spent about half a day installing the rear and another couple hours on the front. At that point, he contacted me to ask what I wanted to do about turn signals.
I told him that the bumper was supposed to include turn signals, as the office assistant @ 4x4 Labs, HD, who took my order, informed me of the difference between LC and LX470 bumpers...the latter needing turn signals since the LX has it's turn signals on the bumper, and that they'd be building them into the bumper I was buying. But they didn't....
Then Mike @ Mike's Custom Toys told me there was an issue with the bull bar: there were bars blocking the high beam lights... which made me reach out to 4x4 Labs to inquire about that.
Then the drama began.... HD accused me of waiting too long... a mere three weeks before unpackaging them, and said I ought to have examined them and figured out without installing them, if they were correct for my application. I'm sure most of you can think of my response....: Umm, this was a custom build for a LX470, why should I even have to think about such?
After expressing my dismay and dissatisfaction, he offered to have a friend pick it up and he'd have the replacement for me by the end of October. This was the first week of October, mind you. So, I was expected to remove it and re-install my stock bumper for an estimated 3 week replacement time....and when I requested that they pay for the R&R, he clearly stated that they would NOT be paying for ANY shop time for the installation/removal/and re-installation of this MISTAKE(major f-up)...I was dismayed, to say the least.
Their reason for a 3 week(estimate that is..remember i waited 3 months on the original 6 week lead time estimate) lead, was that they had to build bumpers for (2) King of the Hammers vehicles...that were now in the shop...not to mention that I PROBABLY had my order in and paid for way before these two race vehicles came along..
After some back and forth about such, and me expressing that I was no longer even interested in having their products on my rig, HD referred me to Luke, the owner of 4x4 Labs. I sent them two emails....:
From MY standpoint fellas, this job of my custom bumper(s) was a total flop on your end. The mix up about making me a Landcruiser bumper for my LX, that was specified in email to Luke and in conversation with HD while placing the order, which I know was specified by the fact that I was clearly expecting a bumper with turn signals in the bumper, as per our conversation about the difference between the LC and LX, is a major f-ing mixup. I waited nearly 3 months to get these bumpers(with a custom bull bar for a LX470) and yet they weren’t as ordered. I went so far as to send you custom powder for the powder coat, as well.
Then, the unprofessional and immature attempt at manipulating me, creating the argument and blaming me for the delay in realizing that this was an incorrect bumper for my application is despicable. Totally disrespectful of you and your company, that I sought out and gave business to.
Trying to blame me and make it my fault by not inspecting this custom order that was wrapped in plastic/and bubble wrap for a mere three weeks before installing them, is absolutely disgraceful too!
You need to own all of your mistakes on this MAJOR F-UP! This is not the way to treat a customer. I did nothing wrong here.
Because of the fact that I installed a front bumper that I custom ordered for my LX470, on my timeframe without measuring the bull bar to see if it fit my headlight/grill or noticed before hand that it was missing turn signals, is still your mistake.
This was ordered for a LX 470.
I have a mechanic that does my installs for me, and I had to pay him to install your bumper that was not built for my rig(even though I did all I could to make it the right bumper) . I didn’t order a bumper for a Landcruiser. This is not my mistake. THis is your mistake and you MUST own up to this and realistically pay for the labor for what was done if we are to exchange for a new bumper that fits. And the powder as well.
This my complete standing on this. I will copy and paste this onto a thread on IH8MUD to inform the Landcruiser community that led me to your company if you fail to realize your awful customer service in respect to this transaction.
I know you’re capable of righting all these wrongs, as any honorable company can.
Regards,
Brian Lloyd
AND:
Hello Luke,
I just got off the phone with the main creditor who paid for this transaction. They are requesting that I attempt to reconcile the transaction with your company before I make concrete actions to dispute the charges to 4x4 Labs for this mishap.
As you know, I am unhappy with the product(s) I received from 4x4 Labs. As you know, there were mistakes made on your end, that had nothing to do with me. I, as your customer have really done nothing wrong in ordering, paying for, receiving, and installing your equipment.
I, did install them, even though I wasn’t happy with the welds(for a rather modern vehicle), as I didn’t think a custom order would be returnable.
As you know, it came to be that the front bumper was made incorrectly…for another vehicle, that doesn’t have the same front end styling as my vehicle. And, my installer had to make my side marker lights into functioning turn signals, since the bumper you sent me didn’t have turn signals on it, like a bumper for a LX470 is supposed to have. Then he notified me that the bull bar was blocking my high beam headlights...
And, it is clear that it now MUST be returned, requiring me to un-install it, and re-install my stock bumper, since you are unable to provide an immediate replacement.
I have incurred charges beyond the original cost of your bumper by having it installed by an automotive professional, which is not my responsibility, I don’t think. I did all I could do to order the correct bumper for my LX470. Thinking that I received a custom made bumper for an LX470, I had it mounted.
Now, your office assistant HD is accusing me of being in the wrong, for not installing it quick enough, nor noticing before installation, the discrepancy.
I am not at fault here. I was given the incorrect part, and my Toyota truck mechanic moved forward with the installation when I asked him to.
Now, we are at a place in which I’m being projected at as the cause for the issues at hand, in a very disrespectful and dishonorable way. Because of this tactic of putting the blame on me, I no longer wish to be reminded of all this BS by having your product(s) on my rig.
I wish you to take back both front and rear bumpers, giving me a full refund and paying for the labor to install and removed them.
This is the professional way to take care of this matter. That’s my opinion. You may want to reprimand your office assistant for mistreating a client too.
Thank you
Luke responded:
hey Brian,
Apologies for the mistake on the front bumper. It was definitely our fault and should have been caught several times throughout the build process. I was hoping we could just build another one and replace it for you (which I will still extend to you, we even have enough of the special powder color) but it seems this has gotten out of hand which I also understand. My Neanderthal office manager gets enormous amounts of s*** done but can be a little abrasive at times and I apologize for his behavior if it was presumed offensive. He's somewhat of a scary tattooed biker dude but actually a sweetheart on the inside as long as he doesn't get riled up. I've spoken with him about being a little more pliable in situations like this as it reflects my business. He's great at customer service 99% of the time, awesome at collections, is usually very organized and has a nearly photographic memory so I usually stand behind his decisions. This is one time I didn't and sometimes we just can't save a transaction which is OK. It only happens once in a great while. I can think of only a couple times in 18 years that this level of dissatisfaction has occurred. I will chalk it up as a lesson and go forward.
I will be happy to refund the amount for the bumpers and get them shipped back. As far as labor and such that is out of our realm of responsibility. We reserve the right to replace or refund but can't be liable for 3rd party work which is standard throughout the manufacturing sector.
I would like to see a few pics of the welds in question if you have a few moments to snap some pics. If you don't no problem we will see them when we get the bumpers back. I have extremely talented welders here and I'm fairly certain that Brent, my best guy built yours. If that is so I'm sure they are nearly perfect as far as welds go, sorry if you don't like them. We don't grind down any of our structural welds. Grinding welds is often a sign of something not done quite right hence the need to grind them. If you wanted a smoothed weld bumper then I'm sorry we don't do that kind of work here. Our reputation on mud is stellar so I'm not sure slinging this out there is going to be productive but please do what you think you need to do.
Again, I'm truly sorry this transaction went south so badly. If there's anything more I can do let me know.
You can just slap those bumpers back on the pallet and I'll send a truck. As soon as I have a tracking number I will refund you the full amount of your purchase.
Sincerely,
-luke@4x4labs
I informed him that I am rightfully owed the labor for the R&R once again and the powder for the powdercoating and he has failed to respond, so I feel it's best to get the opinion from our MUD community about this shady customer service situation and conceited attitude about their STELLAR REPUTATION?!?!?! and lack of respect for the everyday customer/consumer.
Beware, you may have this happen to you.
At that time I was told it'd be about six weeks to get them completed. I received them on September 10. 12.5 weeks later.
I had them delivered to my mechanic's shop: Mike's Custom Toys near to me in Grants Pass, Oregon. When he was able to fit me into his schedule, I delivered my rig to him and he removed my stock bumpers, spent about half a day installing the rear and another couple hours on the front. At that point, he contacted me to ask what I wanted to do about turn signals.
I told him that the bumper was supposed to include turn signals, as the office assistant @ 4x4 Labs, HD, who took my order, informed me of the difference between LC and LX470 bumpers...the latter needing turn signals since the LX has it's turn signals on the bumper, and that they'd be building them into the bumper I was buying. But they didn't....
Then Mike @ Mike's Custom Toys told me there was an issue with the bull bar: there were bars blocking the high beam lights... which made me reach out to 4x4 Labs to inquire about that.
Then the drama began.... HD accused me of waiting too long... a mere three weeks before unpackaging them, and said I ought to have examined them and figured out without installing them, if they were correct for my application. I'm sure most of you can think of my response....: Umm, this was a custom build for a LX470, why should I even have to think about such?
After expressing my dismay and dissatisfaction, he offered to have a friend pick it up and he'd have the replacement for me by the end of October. This was the first week of October, mind you. So, I was expected to remove it and re-install my stock bumper for an estimated 3 week replacement time....and when I requested that they pay for the R&R, he clearly stated that they would NOT be paying for ANY shop time for the installation/removal/and re-installation of this MISTAKE(major f-up)...I was dismayed, to say the least.
Their reason for a 3 week(estimate that is..remember i waited 3 months on the original 6 week lead time estimate) lead, was that they had to build bumpers for (2) King of the Hammers vehicles...that were now in the shop...not to mention that I PROBABLY had my order in and paid for way before these two race vehicles came along..
After some back and forth about such, and me expressing that I was no longer even interested in having their products on my rig, HD referred me to Luke, the owner of 4x4 Labs. I sent them two emails....:
From MY standpoint fellas, this job of my custom bumper(s) was a total flop on your end. The mix up about making me a Landcruiser bumper for my LX, that was specified in email to Luke and in conversation with HD while placing the order, which I know was specified by the fact that I was clearly expecting a bumper with turn signals in the bumper, as per our conversation about the difference between the LC and LX, is a major f-ing mixup. I waited nearly 3 months to get these bumpers(with a custom bull bar for a LX470) and yet they weren’t as ordered. I went so far as to send you custom powder for the powder coat, as well.
Then, the unprofessional and immature attempt at manipulating me, creating the argument and blaming me for the delay in realizing that this was an incorrect bumper for my application is despicable. Totally disrespectful of you and your company, that I sought out and gave business to.
Trying to blame me and make it my fault by not inspecting this custom order that was wrapped in plastic/and bubble wrap for a mere three weeks before installing them, is absolutely disgraceful too!
You need to own all of your mistakes on this MAJOR F-UP! This is not the way to treat a customer. I did nothing wrong here.
Because of the fact that I installed a front bumper that I custom ordered for my LX470, on my timeframe without measuring the bull bar to see if it fit my headlight/grill or noticed before hand that it was missing turn signals, is still your mistake.
This was ordered for a LX 470.
I have a mechanic that does my installs for me, and I had to pay him to install your bumper that was not built for my rig(even though I did all I could to make it the right bumper) . I didn’t order a bumper for a Landcruiser. This is not my mistake. THis is your mistake and you MUST own up to this and realistically pay for the labor for what was done if we are to exchange for a new bumper that fits. And the powder as well.
This my complete standing on this. I will copy and paste this onto a thread on IH8MUD to inform the Landcruiser community that led me to your company if you fail to realize your awful customer service in respect to this transaction.
I know you’re capable of righting all these wrongs, as any honorable company can.
Regards,
Brian Lloyd
AND:
Hello Luke,
I just got off the phone with the main creditor who paid for this transaction. They are requesting that I attempt to reconcile the transaction with your company before I make concrete actions to dispute the charges to 4x4 Labs for this mishap.
As you know, I am unhappy with the product(s) I received from 4x4 Labs. As you know, there were mistakes made on your end, that had nothing to do with me. I, as your customer have really done nothing wrong in ordering, paying for, receiving, and installing your equipment.
I, did install them, even though I wasn’t happy with the welds(for a rather modern vehicle), as I didn’t think a custom order would be returnable.
As you know, it came to be that the front bumper was made incorrectly…for another vehicle, that doesn’t have the same front end styling as my vehicle. And, my installer had to make my side marker lights into functioning turn signals, since the bumper you sent me didn’t have turn signals on it, like a bumper for a LX470 is supposed to have. Then he notified me that the bull bar was blocking my high beam headlights...
And, it is clear that it now MUST be returned, requiring me to un-install it, and re-install my stock bumper, since you are unable to provide an immediate replacement.
I have incurred charges beyond the original cost of your bumper by having it installed by an automotive professional, which is not my responsibility, I don’t think. I did all I could do to order the correct bumper for my LX470. Thinking that I received a custom made bumper for an LX470, I had it mounted.
Now, your office assistant HD is accusing me of being in the wrong, for not installing it quick enough, nor noticing before installation, the discrepancy.
I am not at fault here. I was given the incorrect part, and my Toyota truck mechanic moved forward with the installation when I asked him to.
Now, we are at a place in which I’m being projected at as the cause for the issues at hand, in a very disrespectful and dishonorable way. Because of this tactic of putting the blame on me, I no longer wish to be reminded of all this BS by having your product(s) on my rig.
I wish you to take back both front and rear bumpers, giving me a full refund and paying for the labor to install and removed them.
This is the professional way to take care of this matter. That’s my opinion. You may want to reprimand your office assistant for mistreating a client too.
Thank you
Luke responded:
hey Brian,
Apologies for the mistake on the front bumper. It was definitely our fault and should have been caught several times throughout the build process. I was hoping we could just build another one and replace it for you (which I will still extend to you, we even have enough of the special powder color) but it seems this has gotten out of hand which I also understand. My Neanderthal office manager gets enormous amounts of s*** done but can be a little abrasive at times and I apologize for his behavior if it was presumed offensive. He's somewhat of a scary tattooed biker dude but actually a sweetheart on the inside as long as he doesn't get riled up. I've spoken with him about being a little more pliable in situations like this as it reflects my business. He's great at customer service 99% of the time, awesome at collections, is usually very organized and has a nearly photographic memory so I usually stand behind his decisions. This is one time I didn't and sometimes we just can't save a transaction which is OK. It only happens once in a great while. I can think of only a couple times in 18 years that this level of dissatisfaction has occurred. I will chalk it up as a lesson and go forward.
I will be happy to refund the amount for the bumpers and get them shipped back. As far as labor and such that is out of our realm of responsibility. We reserve the right to replace or refund but can't be liable for 3rd party work which is standard throughout the manufacturing sector.
I would like to see a few pics of the welds in question if you have a few moments to snap some pics. If you don't no problem we will see them when we get the bumpers back. I have extremely talented welders here and I'm fairly certain that Brent, my best guy built yours. If that is so I'm sure they are nearly perfect as far as welds go, sorry if you don't like them. We don't grind down any of our structural welds. Grinding welds is often a sign of something not done quite right hence the need to grind them. If you wanted a smoothed weld bumper then I'm sorry we don't do that kind of work here. Our reputation on mud is stellar so I'm not sure slinging this out there is going to be productive but please do what you think you need to do.
Again, I'm truly sorry this transaction went south so badly. If there's anything more I can do let me know.
You can just slap those bumpers back on the pallet and I'll send a truck. As soon as I have a tracking number I will refund you the full amount of your purchase.
Sincerely,
-luke@4x4labs
I informed him that I am rightfully owed the labor for the R&R once again and the powder for the powdercoating and he has failed to respond, so I feel it's best to get the opinion from our MUD community about this shady customer service situation and conceited attitude about their STELLAR REPUTATION?!?!?! and lack of respect for the everyday customer/consumer.
Beware, you may have this happen to you.