300 M rear axles and flanges

[cruiseroutfit]

Aren't you only supposed to use 2 dowels on a given plane? And don't you need to ream the holes?

Per who's rules? Folks have been adding more and bigger dowels to Land Cruiser front hubs for ages... as more flange variant rears hit the market it's no stretch we'd see them there.

Ream what holes? You have to add holes to the wheel hub (or we can provide those pre-machined) but you dont need to ream anything that I can think of.

 

[nukegoat]

Per who's rules? Folks have been adding more and bigger dowels to Land Cruiser front hubs for ages... as more flange variant rears hit the market it's no stretch we'd see them there.

Ream what holes? You have to add holes to the wheel hub (or we can provide those pre-machined) but you dont need to ream anything that I can think of.

Per gd&t? Just what I've read.

What the Beginning Machine Designer Needs to Know about Dowels | Weld Fixture Design 101

www.weldfixturedesign101.com

Two – Two – and only Two

"When mounting a tooling component with dowels only use two dowels. Whether it’s a small block or a great big base plate. ONLY TWO."

 

[mudgudgeon]

How do you prevent gear oil from leaking through the splines? Serious question

What stops great oil leaking out through front axle splines?

 

[RFB]

What stops great oil leaking out through front axle splines?

A ton of seals and such, the rear seal never holds oil in the axle tubes, so this is a very valid question.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Per gd&t? Just what I've read.

What the Beginning Machine Designer Needs to Know about Dowels | Weld Fixture Design 101

www.weldfixturedesign101.com

Two – Two – and only Two

"When mounting a tooling component with dowels only use two dowels. Whether it’s a small block or a great big base plate. ONLY TWO."

I think from an alignment and assembly standpoint, that holds truth. When utilizing the dowels for strength characteristics there isn’t a sound reason why you can’t increase the number theoretically or as evidenced by the thousands and thousands that have been doing it on Toyota axles for decades. For example you can buy a six dowel front wheel hub that uses the exact same parts as this RCV kit.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

What stops great oil leaking out through front axle splines?

A ton of seals and such, the rear seal never holds oil in the axle tubes, so this is a very valid question.

Both front and rear separate viscous gear lube and grease with a single seal. The front just has a grease barrier in the knuckle and a long spindle tube to prevent more migration. Worst case, put an o-ring on the axle flange dust cap. This style of axle/flange arrangement has been in use on Toyota full-float axles for decades... this is just RCV’s improved take on the concept.

 

[RFB]

Both front and rear separate viscous gear lube and grease with a single seal. The front just has a grease barrier in the knuckle and a long spindle tube to prevent more migration. Worst case, put an o-ring on the axle flange dust cap. This style of axle/flange arrangement has been in use on Toyota full-float axles for decades... this is just RCV’s improved take on the concept.

I get that but the rear oil seal never holds at all. Which is why most veryone runs no grease just gear oil bath in rear bearings. and the rear flange has the advatage of the one piece axle and gasket. Ill run em either way figure it out OR Im sure RCV has figured it out, mostly.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I get that but the rear oil seal never holds at all. Which is why most veryone runs no grease just gear oil bath in rear bearings. and the rear flange has the advatage of the one piece axle and gasket. Ill run em either way figure it out OR Im sure RCV has figured it out, mostly.

??? Most everyone? I can think of very few doing oil bath rear bearings in Land Cruiser customers I encounter, we never set them up as such in our shop. I’d be curious if even 5% of 8x owners on the forum are intentionally bathing their bearings let alone “most”. The rear hub seal is the next line of defense for an oil bathed wheel hub/bearings. It won’t hold gear lube indefinitely and when it leaks your brakes get wet. I run grease in all my Cruiser full float front/rear bearings... zero issues. Anyone remember Backwoods Goop? Lol

Again, run the gasket and an o-ring or consult whomever you’re buying them through

 

[RFB]

??? Most everyone? I can think of very few doing oil bath rear bearings in Land Cruiser customers I encounter, we never set them up as such in our shop. I’d be curious if even 5% of 8x owners on the forum are bathing their bearings let alone most. The rear hub seal is the next line of defense for an oil bathed wheel hub/bearings. It won’t hold gear lube indefinitely and when it leaks your brakes get wet.

Again, run the gasket and an o-ring or consult whomever you’re buying them through

Really? I swapped in new seals in rear 4 times until @OTRAMM Redline moab motorsports guys at navtec fleet mechanic none of them even bother with bearing grease because the gear oil ends up in there right away.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Really? I swapped in new seals in rear 4 times until @OTRAMM Redline moab motorsports guys at navtec fleet mechanic none of them even bother with bearing grease because the gear oil ends up in there right away.

I’m fully aware some run them that way... I’m also fully disputing that “most” run them that way. I’ve pulled OE axles apart with 150k that still had grease in the bearings fwiw.

The Navtec guys have purchased many rear axle kits with seals from us over the years, the mechanics must be embezzling parts home. I should call and ask if they have a bunch of axle seals to sell us back because they can’t be running them if they are banking on oil migration to bath bearings.

 

[Boing]

Really? I swapped in new seals in rear 4 times until @OTRAMM Redline moab motorsports guys at navtec fleet mechanic none of them even bother with bearing grease because the gear oil ends up in there right away.

To be clear I always pack hub bearings with grease (Toyota - 1ton) even if the hub bearings are in an oil bath... I dont see why the flange wouldn't seal out gear oil though, if bigger fasteners or more dowels we usually use a anaerobic sealer and then push on the dust cap... If you get gear oil out from under the dust cap then add a thin layer of RTV...

If you are going to use gear oil only, then you better park the truck on a angle for awhile to let the hubs fill on both sides...

 

[nukegoat]

To be clear I always pack hub bearings with grease (Toyota - 1ton) even if the hub bearings are in an oil bath... I dont see why the flange wouldn't seal out gear oil though, if bigger fasteners or more dowels we usually use a anaerobic sealer and then push on the dust cap... If you get gear oil out from under the dust cap then add a thin layer of RTV...

If you are going to use gear oil only, then you better park the truck on a angle for awhile to let the hubs fill on both sides...

That sounds like fun

 

[OTRAMM]

We pack them with grease when we're in there. What I was saying was that we almost never see them come in with grease in them, that they're always just running in gear oil.

 

[Douglas S]

RCV

Interesting. I'm curious now who makes the chromoly front nitro shafts as they as made in USA and RCV is the big player for that type of work.

 

[scottryana]

I am 90% sure their stock replacement birfs are made by EMPI, the same people Trail Gear use. I don't know about anything else.

Interesting. I'm curious now who makes the chromoly front nitro shafts as they as made in USA and RCV is the big player for that type of work.

 

[cruisermatt]

Per gd&t? Just what I've read.

What the Beginning Machine Designer Needs to Know about Dowels | Weld Fixture Design 101

www.weldfixturedesign101.com

Two – Two – and only Two

"When mounting a tooling component with dowels only use two dowels. Whether it’s a small block or a great big base plate. ONLY TWO."

That is only one article, and it seems like an opinion and they provide zero reason behind it.
Extra dowel pins in a wheel hub is just good extra shear strength.

I like my ARP 7/16" modification though, after that no more dowels are needed.

 

[nukegoat]

That is only one article, and it seems like an opinion and they provide zero reason behind it.
Extra dowel pins in a wheel hub is just good extra shear strength.

I like my ARP 7/16" modification though, after that no more dowels are needed.

Well, theyd need to be super precise to actually all carry shear load at the same time, right? And that's hard to do without overconstraining.

Bolts are different because you're relying on friction of mating surfaces and clamping, so more is better

 

[Rivman1243]

That is only one article, and it seems like an opinion and they provide zero reason behind it.
Extra dowel pins in a wheel hub is just good extra shear strength.

I like my ARP 7/16" modification though, after that no more dowels are needed.

Can you elaborate on your setup?

 

[Boing]

Well, theyd need to be super precise to actually all carry shear load at the same time, right? And that's hard to do without overconstraining.

Bolts are different because you're relying on friction of mating surfaces and clamping, so more is better

We usually chuck hubs into the mill (with DRO), bolt down the flange then locate center on the new dowels, same bolt circle as the hub bolts... At home you would have to get real jiggy with a drill press (I have done a few this way successfully) to open the holes to 7/16 (fine) or adding dowel holes... Extra dowels are a little more of a pain to remove, but nothing a brass drift (or slide hammer) can't take care of...

 

[scottryana]

Yeah I would not trust myself or anyone else to drill a hub for extra studs with a hand drill and drill bit. I am with Nukegoat. To get the real benefits of extra dowels the tolerances would need to be very tight. I would prefer just to take those spots and add extra clamping force. There are a dozen ways to skin a cat, pick one and see what happens.