300 M rear axles and flanges (1 Viewer)

[RFB]

To be clear I always pack hub bearings with grease (Toyota - 1ton) even if the hub bearings are in an oil bath... I dont see why the flange wouldn't seal out gear oil though, if bigger fasteners or more dowels we usually use a anaerobic sealer and then push on the dust cap... If you get gear oil out from under the dust cap then add a thin layer of RTV...

If you are going to use gear oil only, then you better park the truck on a angle for awhile to let the hubs fill on both sides...

I fought the whole idea, until EVERY serious LC shop owner on here and from coast to coast said same thing, But yes I still pack the bearing but realize the oil seal sucks. so.........

 

[cruisermatt]

Can you elaborate on your setup?

Step up the hub bolts to ARP 7/16”.
I set up a jig and have been machining a few local guys’ hubs as well as my own.
Feel free to send em down here, otherwise a drill and steady hand works too.

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I have been using ARP 753-1500 which are 7/16-20 x 1.50", the same thing in the 1.25" or 1.00" would be great with less drilling and tapping but they don't have a shank on them, the 1.5" have a shank which is the perfect length for a FF flange or an Aisin hub. It sucks they don't make a 1.00 with a shank because the extra 0.5" is really not necessary.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I fought the whole idea, until EVERY serious LC shop owner on here and from coast to coast said same thing, But yes I still pack the bearing but realize the oil seal sucks. so...

"EVERY serious LC shop"...

Well the less serious ones like myself use grease and the seal

Seems a few others run the seals too, you might clarify what you're detailing with EVERY serious LC shop

 

[Boing]

I fought the whole idea, until EVERY serious LC shop owner on here and from coast to coast said same thing, But yes I still pack the bearing but realize the oil seal sucks. so.........

80 rear-ends are the only rear full floaters that I know of to have a spindle seal, majority of 1 tons (to include the Dana 80 in my dually) are oil bath hub bearings. To service it though it always gets packed with grease when being put back together...

Look at Toyota hub bearings and carrier bearings they are the same size and can be used interchangeably... Oil bath version on the carrier have bigger rollers and fewer of them, while the hub bearings have more rollers and are smaller...

I prefer grease packed hubs as it keeps more "schmoo" out anyways, not saying gear oil doesn't work because it can and does...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Well, theyd need to be super precise to actually all carry shear load at the same time, right? And that's hard to do without overconstraining.

Bolts are different because you're relying on friction of mating surfaces and clamping, so more is better

Yeah I would not trust myself or anyone else to drill a hub for extra studs with a hand drill and drill bit. I am with Nukegoat. To get the real benefits of extra dowels the tolerances would need to be very tight. I would prefer just to take those spots and add extra clamping force. There are a dozen ways to skin a cat, pick one and see what happens.

I certainly don't disagree that it needs to be precision, but folks like Marlin, FROR, TG and others have literally been doing this with sucsess for decades. It's not a theory at this point. Guys that were wiping out even ARP studs have moved to the 6 dowel and in some cases 10mm and/or larger hardware for upgraded strength and not breaking as much.

Machine shops can drill the 4 additional dowel holes, TG and I think FROR sell pre-drilled options for the 4x/5x/6x/7x front variants. Many 8x customers have inquired about doing it to their fronts but due to the scalloped design, it just doesn't work.

8x Front Wheel Hub, no room for additional dowels.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

80 rear-ends are the only rear full floaters that I know of to have a spindle seal, majority of 1 tons (to include the Dana 80 in my dually) are oil bath hub bearings. To service it though it always gets packed with grease when being put back together...

Look at Toyota hub bearings and carrier bearings they are the same size and can be used interchangeably... Oil bath version on the carrier have bigger rollers and fewer of them, while the hub bearings have more rollers and are smaller... I prefer grease packed hubs as it keeps more "schmoo" out anyways...

Fwiw the 4x/5x/6x/7x full floats also run a spindle seal starting in the 70's. It's my opinion that fluid can and will weep past the wheel seal if one were to run only gear lube and eliminate the seal.




All this is besides the point... the RCV shafts don't impact ones ability to run gear lube or grease on the wheel bearings as multiple sealing methods have been mentioned and successfully implemented over time.

I've got to get back to unserious Land Cruiser business now

 

[Boing]

On my 80 project I asked RCV if they would make the flange with the holes not tapered and they said they wouldn't, so I just opened them up like we always do. For me the best bang for the buck is 7/16 hub bolts. (followed closely by extra dowels, if you have a hot motor; Cummins or v8's you could do both) Low RPM torque is what eats this area...

I have an aversion to cone washers and small fasteners


I agree Kurt gear oil and grease mixing is no big deal to me either...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

On my 80 project I asked RCV if they would make the flange with the holes not tapered and they said they wouldn't, so I just opened them up like we always do. For me the best bang for the buck is 7/16 hub bolts. (followed closely by extra dowels, if you have a hot motor; Cummins or v8's you could do both) Low RPM torque is what eats this area...

I have an aversion to cone washers and small fasteners


I agree Kurt gear oil and grease mixing is no big deal to me either...

Assuming you're doing the 7/16" stud drilling/taping on a mill?

Wonder if there is a market for a pre-made 8x rear hub with 7/16" studs, 6 x dowels and matching RCV 300M flanges sans cone taper?

For those scared by the SAE dimensions, we could do 10mm studs, perhaps with or without cone taper.

All it takes is ~100 committed customers and we can get RCV to do a production run of whatever we want.

 

[cruisermatt]

Assuming you're doing the 7/16" stud drilling/taping on a mill?

Wonder if there is a market for a pre-made 8x rear hub with 7/16" studs, 6 x dowels and matching RCV 300M flanges sans cone taper?

For those scared by the SAE dimensions, we could do 10mm studs, perhaps with or without cone taper.

All it takes is ~100 committed customers and we can get RCV to do a production run of whatever we want.

This is a service I offer, I have a jig set up for my milling machine. I’m setup to do any Toyota hub, 40/60/80/mini, front or rear.
ARP 7/16” bolts, super strong and no more pesky cone washers
Only caveat is there can be some interference issues with some wheels and the bolt flange occasionally. Not a huge deal though.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

This is a service I offer, I have a jig set up for my milling machine. I’m setup to do any Toyota hub, 40/60/80/mini, front or rear.
ARP 7/16” bolts, super strong and no more pesky cone washers
Only caveat is there can be some interference issues with some wheels and the bolt flange occasionally. Not a huge deal though.

View attachment 2082450
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Bomber!

Good to know you're doing that.

 

[cruisermatt]

Bomber!

Good to know you're doing that.

I forgot to mention my favorite part, it costs less in hardware to do all four hubs with the bigger bolts then it does to just equip one axle with the ARP M8 studs made for the application.

Anyways I’ve hashed this solution to death on multiple threads. Back to axle discussion.

Also, if anyone is pulling their Nitro shafts out in favor of others, send em my way

 

[Oscar Witte]

Just for reference, and this probably doesn't add to the conversation at all, but 2/4 of my oem shafts had some spline twist before they broke. And yes, I misspoke earlier, I've broken 4 shafts, not 3 since last October.

 

[RFB]

This is a service I offer, I have a jig set up for my milling machine. I’m setup to do any Toyota hub, 40/60/80/mini, front or rear.
ARP 7/16” bolts, super strong and no more pesky cone washers
Only caveat is there can be some interference issues with some wheels and the bolt flange occasionally. Not a huge deal though.

View attachment 2082450
View attachment 2082451

Nice Ill probably send some down, BUT Ive had zero issues with the ARP studs and replacement cone washers, been perfect. old OEM studs were constantly loose it sucked. but anything I can ARP I will/do/.

 

[RFB]

Just for reference, and this probably doesn't add to the conversation at all, but 2/4 of my oem shafts had some spline twist before they broke. And yes, I misspoke earlier, I've broken 4 shafts, not 3 since last October.

View attachment 2083920

oem shafts, 5.29s and 40s? I would expect this.

 

[Broski]

This is a service I offer, I have a jig set up for my milling machine. I’m setup to do any Toyota hub, 40/60/80/mini, front or rear.
ARP 7/16” bolts, super strong and no more pesky cone washers
Only caveat is there can be some interference issues with some wheels and the bolt flange occasionally. Not a huge deal though.

View attachment 2082450
View attachment 2082451

This would be worth it to not have to deal with the cone washers, especially at teardown time.

 

[cruisermatt]

oem shafts, 5.29s and 40s? I would expect this.

Plus 6.0L POWER and a beast driver

 

[Willy beamin]

Nice Ill probably send some down, BUT Ive had zero issues with the ARP studs and replacement cone washers, been perfect. old OEM studs were constantly loose it sucked. but anything I can ARP I will/do/.

Looseness can be cured with Nord lock washers. you probably know that right

 

[use2bn83]

I get that but the rear oil seal never holds at all. Which is why most veryone runs no grease just gear oil bath in rear bearings. and the rear flange has the advatage of the one piece axle and gasket. Ill run em either way figure it out OR Im sure RCV has figured it out, mostly.

I've had the "prototype" RCV's in my 80 for about 1200 miles. so far not a drop has leaked past the flange or cap. the dust cap is super heavy duty and fits very tight. For reference I run the axle seal and my bearings weren't severely contaminated (maybe a teaspoon of oil had gotten past the seal). About 23k mi. since my last rear axle service. My old shafts have 483k miles on them so the sealing surface is pretty crappy at this point. The new shafts also have a proper gap between the locking collar splines and the diff side gear splines. In theory, this will help make the shaft removable in the event there is some spline twisting. I say "in theory" because no axles were harmed to prove it actually works. The drive flange is a normal stock part for RCV and is used to keep costs in the realm of normal folks like you and I. The addition of custom flanges would nearly double the cost of the kit and make them more of a PITA to install.

While I think the tighter the fit the better when it comes to the dowels, there is just no way for someone to install proper running fit if they are using a drill press (or hand drill). hence the .015" or so clearance fit.

Happy to answer any questions, our stock order should be arriving soon here at Slee.

PS, we also run the axle seal here at the shop. Contamination seems to be correlated to improper seal install, loose bearings, and/or seal surface wear. Many trucks come in for a rear axle service that have 0 contamination.

if you run the oil bath setup, maybe some Toyota diff FIPG on the drive flange splines to seal it up??

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I've had the "prototype" RCV's in my 80 for about 1200 miles. so far not a drop has leaked past the flange or cap. the dust cap is super heavy duty and fits very tight. For reference I run the axle seal and my bearings weren't severely contaminated (maybe a teaspoon of oil had gotten past the seal). About 23k mi. since my last rear axle service. My old shafts have 483k miles on them so the sealing surface is pretty crappy at this point. The new shafts also have a proper gap between the locking collar splines and the diff side gear splines. In theory, this will help make the shaft removable in the event there is some spline twisting. I say "in theory" because no axles were harmed to prove it actually works. The drive flange is a normal stock part for RCV and is used to keep costs in the realm of normal folks like you and I. The addition of custom flanges would nearly double the cost of the kit and make them more of a PITA to install.

While I think the tighter the fit the better when it comes to the dowels, there is just no way for someone to install proper running fit if they are using a drill press (or hand drill). hence the .015" or so clearance fit.

Happy to answer any questions, our stock order should be arriving soon here at Slee.

PS, we also run the axle seal here at the shop. Contamination seems to be corelated to improper seal install, loos bearings, and/or seal surface wear. Many trucks come in for a rear axle service that have 0 contamination.

if you run the oil bath setup, maybe some Toyota diff FIPG on the drive flange splines to seal it up??

Work at Slee?

 

[use2bn83]

Work at Slee?

yep. you work at cruiser outfitters? - it's me Jackson. I'm not on mud super often, the rising sun forum has me pretty tied up.