Thanks for the details
Is the methanol injection for power, or controlling ignition (pinging)
2020 Magnuson Supercharger... Well Maybe...... (2 Viewers)
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Thanks for the details
Is the methanol injection for power, or controlling ignition (pinging)
The primary purpose is to control detonation. A byproduct is increased octane and a noticeable, albeit slight, power increase when it kicks in.
It doesn't seem to have as much zip as it used to. It is possible that this has altered my perception of how the truck performs 
I doesn't seem to have as much zip as it used to. It is possible that this has altered my perception of how the truck performs
Yeah, I don't see the connection!
Well it is also a huge amount of additional "fuel" 14 gallons per hour, of 50/50 is 7 gallons of methanol. Six 375cc/min fuel injectors at 100% duty cycle is only 35.5 gallons per hour. So you are doing a huge amount of fuel enrichment. Basically a seventh fuel injector with the benefit of the water cooling the intake charge.
thatcabledude
GOLD Star
I like the look of those wheels a lot.It doesn't seem to have as much zip as it used to. It is possible that this has altered my perception of how the truck performs
gonzopancho
SILVER Star
Now tell everyone how much you charge to install that into their 80. This is where $5500 or $6500 doesn’t seem so cheap anymore
And it’s Toyota.
I own two TRD 1FZ-FE superchargers and a Wit’s End turbo kit. Both superchargers are still on the shelf, but the turbo is going in the fzj62 build.
FJ142 in the making
The work is being done at @green grass hopper's shop. Early stages. The FJ62 has been my wife's since 2005. Plan is a 1FZ-FE + A442F.
forum.ih8mud.com
The lx450 is getting a 1HD-FTE / H151 with Gturbo upgrades, 3” exhaust, bigger airbox, bigger intercooler, so I didn’t have an “80” to install it on.
I’ll use at least one of the TRD superchargers on a 1FZ-FE COP engine I obtained for a fj55 build. I don’t know what I’ll do with the other, yet.
At the end of the day, the turbo will make more power. We all know that. Maybe I’ll buy a smaller pulley for the nose if the pig gets boring. I just wanna raise the hood at some club event. “No, this is how Toyota built them!”
I talked to NW toys about their 2UZ blower about a month ago. I think I can do a new 3UR-FE with a Magnusun blower and the 8-speed transmission or a H151 for less. 575 HP, and all Toyota. Maybe I’ll sleeve it, IDK.
Yes, the Chevy path parts-only costs less, but it just doesn’t have the “kewl” factor of keeping a Toyota Powertrain. Not for me, anyway.
I have a L98 / 4L60-e combo in the 40, and a second sitting in the shop. That’s how little I love the idea.
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gonzopancho
SILVER Star
Funny. I offered to buy 50 if they’d bring back the 1FZ-FE supercharger, and they took 2 months to say. “Can’t”.
I have it on good authority that someone else tried as well, so ... I doubt Magnusun will. If they have or do, likely anyone who distributes them will price-match the turbo, so you’ll still be ahead following the @NLXTACY path.
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gonzopancho
SILVER Star
Yeah, but a bit less than half the BTU in methanol vs gasoline. So it’s about 3.5 gallons equivalent, or about 10% more. 7th injector, assuming 100% duty cycle is 16.5% more.
Biggest effect is the additional intake charge cooling, and a lot of that is due to the methanol.
Dad’s 430ci SBC powered dragster ran on methanol. 893HP at the crank. Just a bit over 2HP/cubic inch.
After a 7.65 second pass, it would completely cool down on the return road just idling. (And while it ran wet heads, it was a dry block. No radiator.) You could put your hand on the heads back in the pit.
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gonzopancho
SILVER Star
Mmmmnnnnn, twice the fun with a super charged turbo diesel.
Cheers
So yeah, the Detroit Diesel ran a supercharger, but it was only there to scavenge the cylinders. (Detroit’s are 2-cycle... YA-MA-HA!!!)
The turbo is where you get additional “boost”, which is really an excuse to burn more fuel.
10% at 100% duty cycle. The injectors never run 100% in stock form. It is the fuel enrichment that you need on the OBDI trucks. Without the fuel it wouldn't matter how cool the IAT are it would be way too lean and have issues.
The reason alcohol engines run so cool is because of the amount of alcohol you have to run. Stoch for gas is 14.7:1, stoch for methanol is 6.4:1 you have 230% more fuel spraying into the cylinders.
The reason alcohol engines run so cool is because of the amount of alcohol you have to run. Stoch for gas is 14.7:1, stoch for methanol is 6.4:1 you have 230% more fuel spraying into the cylinders.
gonzopancho
SILVER Star
I said it cooled down on the return road idling. I challenge you to make roughly 900HP naturally aspirated with gasoline.
Love the stoichiometry chemistry numbers too.
Gasoline offers a fairly narrow tuning window. The maximum-power rich air/fuel ratio of roughly 12.5:1 is about 85 percent of its 14.7:1 stoichiometric value.
Methanol on the other hand, can be run as rich as 4:1, which is about 62 percent of its stoichiometric value of 6.45:1. In fact, many race engines run as rich as 3.5:1, without negative consequences.
In a gasoline engine, running rich can cause pops, stumbles and backfires, whereas methanol usually pulls through any overly rich mixture and just keeps making power. Want to go on the safe side and run extra-rich? With methanol ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For example, in a gasoline engine, an air-to-fuel ratio of roughly 12.5:1 (12.5 parts air to 1 part fuel) is about right for maximum engine power. In the case of methanol, an air-to-fuel ratio of 4:1(4 parts air to 1 part fuel) is considered slightly on the rich side, but will allow the engine to make its maximum power.
So while it's true that gasoline has a higher energy density (about 18,400 BTU/pound) than methanol (9,500 BTU/pound), since you can burn three times more methanol than gasoline per power stroke, you can make more power.
An engine that flows 1,000 cfm of air means that on gasoline, the engine will consume about 5.6 pounds of fuel based upon a 12.5:1 max power ratio, giving a total energy output of (5.6 pounds x 18,400 BTU) or 103,040 BTUs of energy.
If we do the same calculation using methanol, we get 17.5 pounds of fuel burned, and (17.5 pounds x 9,500 BTU) or 166,250 BTUs of energy—that's a 60 percent greater energy output.
I agree that the latent heat of vaporization also plays a role.
When gasoline undergoes a phase change from liquid to gas, it will (typically) consume (“absorb”) about 150 BTUs of heat energy per pound of fuel, which results in a temperature drop in the intake charge.
Methanol, on the other hand, consumes 506 BTUs heat energy per pound of fuel when undergoing this phase change.
Returning to the example above, In an engine flowing 1,000 cfm of air, the 5.6 pounds of gasoline will absorb about 840 BTUs of heat energy, versus 8,855 BTUs for methanol—more that an order of magnitude more cooling.
And yes, the “octane is higher” with methanol. So the dragster runs a very high compression ratio, 13.5:1 or 14:1, if memory serves. I have the build sheets, but I’m not at home.
Love the stoichiometry chemistry numbers too.
Gasoline offers a fairly narrow tuning window. The maximum-power rich air/fuel ratio of roughly 12.5:1 is about 85 percent of its 14.7:1 stoichiometric value.
Methanol on the other hand, can be run as rich as 4:1, which is about 62 percent of its stoichiometric value of 6.45:1. In fact, many race engines run as rich as 3.5:1, without negative consequences.
In a gasoline engine, running rich can cause pops, stumbles and backfires, whereas methanol usually pulls through any overly rich mixture and just keeps making power. Want to go on the safe side and run extra-rich? With methanol ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For example, in a gasoline engine, an air-to-fuel ratio of roughly 12.5:1 (12.5 parts air to 1 part fuel) is about right for maximum engine power. In the case of methanol, an air-to-fuel ratio of 4:1(4 parts air to 1 part fuel) is considered slightly on the rich side, but will allow the engine to make its maximum power.
So while it's true that gasoline has a higher energy density (about 18,400 BTU/pound) than methanol (9,500 BTU/pound), since you can burn three times more methanol than gasoline per power stroke, you can make more power.
An engine that flows 1,000 cfm of air means that on gasoline, the engine will consume about 5.6 pounds of fuel based upon a 12.5:1 max power ratio, giving a total energy output of (5.6 pounds x 18,400 BTU) or 103,040 BTUs of energy.
If we do the same calculation using methanol, we get 17.5 pounds of fuel burned, and (17.5 pounds x 9,500 BTU) or 166,250 BTUs of energy—that's a 60 percent greater energy output.
I agree that the latent heat of vaporization also plays a role.
When gasoline undergoes a phase change from liquid to gas, it will (typically) consume (“absorb”) about 150 BTUs of heat energy per pound of fuel, which results in a temperature drop in the intake charge.
Methanol, on the other hand, consumes 506 BTUs heat energy per pound of fuel when undergoing this phase change.
Returning to the example above, In an engine flowing 1,000 cfm of air, the 5.6 pounds of gasoline will absorb about 840 BTUs of heat energy, versus 8,855 BTUs for methanol—more that an order of magnitude more cooling.
And yes, the “octane is higher” with methanol. So the dragster runs a very high compression ratio, 13.5:1 or 14:1, if memory serves. I have the build sheets, but I’m not at home.
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I am biased of course but I think it's the best-looking of all the OEM Challenger wheels. It is 20x11 and is used only on 50th anniversary wide bodies.
You wouldn't be wrong as usual.
- Thread starter
- #55
Well looks like Magnuson just increased the MSRP on their place holder page from $4,300.00 to $6,695.00
@NLXTACY just waiting on a carb cert or an act of god to move me out of California
Toyota 1FZ-FE 4.5L I6 Supercharger System
www.magnusonsuperchargers.com
@NLXTACY just waiting on a carb cert or an act of god to move me out of California
NLXTACY
Wits' End
Well looks like Magnuson just increased the MSRP on their place holder page from $4,300.00 to $6,695.00
Toyota 1FZ-FE 4.5L I6 Supercharger System
www.magnusonsuperchargers.com
@NLXTACY just waiting on a carb cert or an act of god to move me out of California
yes! Time to pump up my price since I’m over a extra psi or more
It doesn't seem to have as much zip as it used to. It is possible that this has altered my perception of how the truck performs
Nice widebody shaker scat. I have the standard shaker scat in Mango.
These things really do need the wider tires.
Thank you for showing this math. I have often wondered how and why top fuel cars ran methanol when it was such a problem when mixing ethanol with gasoline (yes, I realize methanol and ethanol are different).
Understanding the "why" one works better due to the Stoichiometry of the products.
2fpower
SILVER Star
Very interesting....
As a previous distributor, I too had correspondence to purchase a slug of these, to no avail.
As a previous distributor, I too had correspondence to purchase a slug of these, to no avail.
I should have bought one when they were 4k
