2018 200 series vs GX550

[2021 LC200]

OFFICIAL MY22+ Tundra/MY23+ Sequoia V35A-FTS (Type '21) Engine Failure Discussion Thread

I think as far as VIN verified bearing failures nothing is past Feb 2023 I think toyota has a handle on the VIN range IMO

www.tundras.com

Per the Tundra folks, most of that video was wrong.

My reason for posting was to point out it has a complicated emissions system. Hope the other issues get resolved or are not an issue for the Japan build GX550.

 

[40Man]

My reason for posting was to point out it has a complicated emissions system. Hope the other issues get resolved or are not an issue for the Japan build GX550.

Understood. Even that portion of the video was wrong. A few people were making corrections in the comments. In my opinion, this Youtuber is not someone to trust FWIW.

The Type 21 of the V35A used in the Tundras, Sequoias, Land Cruiser 300, etc DOES NOT use exhaust particulate filters. He was mentioning stuff about the type 17 engine (LS500) and incorrectly applying it to the V35A. The type 21 V35A used in the Tundra and Sequoia has significant differences, mainly the use of a single heat exchanger intercooler and a single throttle body versus twin heat exchangers and twin throttle bodies of the type 17 V35A found under the hood of the LS 500.

Edit:looks like the youtuber removed the video due to all the criticism due to false information.

 

[2021 LC200]

This is worth watching before making a choice between a 200 and 250 series.

 

[c4xplsv]

This is worth watching before making a choice between a 200 and 250 series.

Big elephant in the room - funny how the host and technician refuse say anything negative around the 15min mark in spite of the evidence saying otherwise

 

[skrypj]

I watched the video a few days ago. I like his videos a lot. Over-stressing is not the issue here. The way I see it is:

1. There is something wrong with the design
2. There is something wrong with the manufacturing process.
3. Toyota's 0W-20 oil specification is heinously thin for this motor.

I know all the Toyota folks want to pretend these turbo motors are fancy and modern, but the reality is they have been in trucks for coming up on 15 years. the 3.5L Ecoboost since 2010, the 2.7 Ecoboost since 2014, the 2.3L Ecoboost since 2018, the GM 2.7L Turbomax since 2018 or 2019. Bottom end failures have not historically been an issue. Especially bottom end failures at 20 or 30k miles. This is a Toyota problem, not a GTDI problem.

With regards to the oil, no one else is running 0W-20 in a GTDI truck motor. 5W-30 or greater Even GM, who uses 0W-20 in all of their V8's, is using 5W-30 in their 2.7L Turbomax motor in the Silverado. I'd even argue that 0W-40 or 5W-40 are a good option and thats what I started running in my 3.5L Ecoboost.

I'd be curious if the engines that are failing are the ones being used as a grocery getter and are dealer maintained with 0W-20 at 10k+ mile intervals. The oil is suffering from fuel dillusion over OCI's that long and is not ever getting hot enough to clean itself.

 

[skrypj]

Big elephant in the room - funny how the host and technician refuse say anything negative around the 15min mark in spite of the evidence saying otherwise

That probably because Toyota has been radio silent and he doesn't know what the problem is. Why add fuel to the fire?

It is a loaded comment because Ford developed a 3.5L Turbo motor and put it in trucks 14 years ago and didnt have these issues with bearings or bottom ends failing at 20k miles.

 

[tbisaacs]

I know all the Toyota folks want to pretend these turbo motors are fancy and modern, but the reality is they have been in trucks for coming up on 15 years

Everyone knows that turbos, new fangled computers, and hybrids are all new age nonsense! Dang millennials.

 

[MeWantLC]

I do not own a GX550, I did see one at my closest Lexus dealership and was impressed with what I saw, unfortenately, did not test drive it because I could not.

A few comments for your questions:
Unless you specifically want a 2016+ for a reason, anything 2013+ is good because that is when the major improvments were made. Mileage is irrelevant PR0VIDED really good maintenance has been done to the truck. That could help you expand your search and more options for price.

You mentioned 3 row seats, which tells me you need space... the GX550 will be more cramped than the LC200. The 200's are just simply big and NICE for space.

Nobody knows reliability of the engine, but it seems it pulls right and hard. The 200 will last WAY pass 200,000 miles, WAY more, provided good maintenance, and the three or four things that could need repairs. Honestly, for low gas mileage, is a wash, if you want/need more, go for the LC250, and that would be my choice if I get one , will be the LC250, even with all the hybrid uncertainty, at least I am saving in gas.

Price again, open your search, and you will find options. Yes, they are still expensive for a reason, but be patient. You never said why moving from a 2016 T4R, they are incredible and the engine DOES have less issues than the LC200's, and for the looks, you buy new cars, so if you got it new, I am sure you have taken good care of it. If it is space you are looking for, I WILL NOT get the GX550. That T4R will last you 20+ years, specially that engine, it is a GREAT one ! If you have other reasons, go for it, but for durability on a vehicle to last you what you want, the T4R will be GREAT.

In short, based on what you posted, I will not get the GX550 nor the LC200. If you MUST get one, I will go for the LC200 because what you posted. NOT because I own one. AND if you MUST get a new one, I will get the LC250, at least you will save on gas. I want a LC250 but made the decision to not overpay, I am SO disapointed of dealers, that left me dry... on the contrary, Lexus is holding his class act and not over charing , and I almost went for the GX550, it is incredible and I like it, but I will not get it over the LC250. If there was not Lc250 with hybrid, then I will say GX550 If you must have new. But again, based on your comments, neither...I will keep the T4R !

Not sure I helped, but I tried. ! LOL. If you want more help, post away !!! This is seriously THE best BEST forum in the whole net, for real. !

Cheers,

G

New browser and poster. Trying to decide on a used LC200, years 2018-2020, vs getting/waiting on a GX 550.
I do like the 550 Overtrail, but I wish it had 3 rows of seats, and I am not sure about the engine yet
The appeal of the 200 LC is the reputation for reliability, the consistency, the ability to last 200,000 plus miles.
The drawbacks are the low gas mileage, the small third row,
the potential radiator issues, etc, etc. And the high price, which would almost be the same as the new GX Premium.
Any thoughts, from owners, who can share some insight?
Is anyone thinking about making the switch to the GX550, and if so, why?
And if not, please share why not?
I am leaning towards finding a lower mileage 2017 or 2018 model 200, but boy, are they hard to find, unless it is in black!
I am looking to get another vehicle to last for 20 years, but drive daily, in place of my 4runner.
Thanks to any and all responses!
Mark
2016 4Runner Trail Premium, daily driver, reliable
2016 Charger Hellcat, 750 miles, not DD
2001 Ram 1500 4wd, beater truck, but still loved
2000 Dodge Viper, my baby, 12,000 miles, ordered from factory, picked up at assembly plant

 

[skrypj]

I do not own a GX550, I did see one at my closest Lexus dealership and was impressed with what I saw, unfortenately, did not test drive it because I could not.

A few comments for your questions:
Unless you specifically want a 2016+ for a reason, anything 2013+ is good because that is when the major improvments were made. Mileage is irrelevant PR0VIDED really good maintenance has been done to the truck. That could help you expand your search and more options for price.

You mentioned 3 row seats, which tells me you need space... the GX550 will be more cramped than the LC200. The 200's are just simply big and NICE for space.

Nobody knows reliability of the engine, but it seems it pulls right and hard. The 200 will last WAY pass 200,000 miles, WAY more, provided good maintenance, and the three or four things that could need repairs. Honestly, for low gas mileage, is a wash, if you want/need more, go for the LC250, and that would be my choice if I get one , will be the LC250, even with all the hybrid uncertainty, at least I am saving in gas.

Price again, open your search, and you will find options. Yes, they are still expensive for a reason, but be patient. You never said why moving from a 2016 T4R, they are incredible and the engine DOES have less issues than the LC200's, and for the looks, you buy new cars, so if you got it new, I am sure you have taken good care of it. If it is space you are looking for, I WILL NOT get the GX550. That T4R will last you 20+ years, specially that engine, it is a GREAT one ! If you have other reasons, go for it, but for durability on a vehicle to last you what you want, the T4R will be GREAT.

In short, based on what you posted, I will not get the GX550 nor the LC200. If you MUST get one, I will go for the LC200 because what you posted. NOT because I own one. AND if you MUST get a new one, I will get the LC250, at least you will save on gas. I want a LC250 but made the decision to not overpay, I am SO disapointed of dealers, that left me dry... on the contrary, Lexus is holding his class act and not over charing , and I almost went for the GX550, it is incredible and I like it, but I will not get it over the LC250. If there was not Lc250 with hybrid, then I will say GX550 If you must have new. But again, based on your comments, neither...I will keep the T4R !

Not sure I helped, but I tried. ! LOL. If you want more help, post away !!! This is seriously THE best BEST forum in the whole net, for real. !

Cheers,

G

I saw one when I was in Cali. It was a white premium or luxury, but not the Overtrail.

I feel like the whole truck was designed around looking good as the Overtrail and that the normal trims look a little odd.

 

[OregonLC]

Failure rate isn't any greater that the 2000 100 series transmission, or the 80 series head gasket, or the 3UR cam tower leak, and significantly less than the beloved 200 series radiator. No machine is perfect and the brand value of Toyota reliability is an asset not worth risking on an unaddressed problem. This would literally take Toyota down if it were as big of a problem as discussed. I'd rock a 550 with zero concerns.

 

[LX Cruiser]

I know all the Toyota folks want to pretend these turbo motors are fancy and modern

It’s not that, at least not for me. What drew me to Toyota was their ethos plainly on display through conservatively overbuilt and understressed platforms that can go anywhere with some mild mods and get back home every time and do so for hundreds of thousands of miles. The 3UR was a very advanced engine for its time—it produces 90% of its max torque at 2600 rpm but is still low-stress in stock form.

There are what, 3 or 4 million-mile 3URs at this point? For Toyota having a disproportionately small fraction of work truck fleet sales, that is flat out impressive.

Contrast this with the V35A-FTS twin turbo. Yeah it’s more powerful. It will presumably beat Toyota’s v8s in every metric and every race, except the one many Toyota owners care the most about: the slow march to 300k+ miles. I know the bottom end failures are a small % but I still can’t help but feel that we are seeing the end of Toyota’s golden era. Would love to be wrong.

 

[Madtiger]

It’s not that, at least not for me. What drew me to Toyota was their ethos plainly on display through conservatively overbuilt and understressed platforms that can go anywhere with some mild mods and get back home every time and do so for hundreds of thousands of miles. The 3UR was a very advanced engine for its time—it produces 90% of its max torque at 2600 rpm but is still low-stress in stock form.

There are what, 3 or 4 million-mile 3URs at this point? For Toyota having a disproportionately small fraction of work truck fleet sales, that is flat out impressive.

Contrast this with the V35A-FTS twin turbo. Yeah it’s more powerful. It will presumably beat Toyota’s v8s in every metric and every race, except the one many Toyota owners care the most about: the slow march to 300k+ miles. I know the bottom end failures are a small % but I still can’t help but feel that we are seeing the end of Toyota’s golden era. Would love to be wrong.

I think that Toyota had to make the V35A because the competition was killing them in power and towing comfort. If Toyota can manage to make an engine that can “slow march” to 250k and yet produce tons of power, then i am all for it.

I have the Ford 3.5 Powerboost powertrain (hybrid), which makes 430 HP and 570 Torque. I have 2019 LC with the V8. I am sure that the V8 will potentially last longer with less issues. But on the highway (or streets), there is just no comparison. It is like a V8 vs. I4. I can go from 70-100 mph in a blink of an eye in my Ford to pass someone. In LC, it takes a lot longer and more revving/noise and foot to floor. Cruising at 80, my Ford is just as silent if not slightly more than LC. Mountains? An even bigger divide!

So, if Toyota can bridge the quality difference in providing tons of power + good (but not great) durability (that Ford lacks), then i think that it is a huge win.

(And Toyota needs to use Lithium battery in their hybrids! Geez freaking 2010 calling Toyota!)

 

[Supra Turbo]

..I still can’t help but feel that we are seeing the end of Toyota’s golden era. Would love to be wrong.

IMO, Toyotas golden era was in the 90s with 3G 4Runner, 80 series LC, MKIV Supra, LS400, etc.

 

[OregonLC]

The 'golden era' was represented by the quality gap. A 22RE, isn't a 500k 3UR. It's just that it could make it to 150k while Chevy was 100k at best. CNC manufacturing and common sourcing has closed this gap. Take the ZF transmission. That is used in such a wide range of vehicles that it makes economic sense to invest heavily in design and engineering. This elevates the quality of those brands and closes the gap with Toyota.

The other part of the equation is the performance expectation. 235 hp from a 4.7 V8 or 236 hp from a 4.0 V6 is a very under-stressed engine. 479 lbs-ft of torque from a 3.4L is a different animal. If the GX was making 250 hp there would be huge complaints about how Toyota missed the mark on power.

I don't think main bearings will the be the ultimate hallmark of these engines. Rather, it will be turbo longevity. I'm guessing we're looking at 150k service life with expensive repairs around that point and early engine failures should it not be address and the engine ingests a compressor wheel.

 

[LX Cruiser]

I can go from 70-100 mph in a blink of an eye in my Ford

I don't know man, for a utilitarian vehicle such as a truck or a Land Cruiser, I find this metric to be completely irrelevant. I don't want trucks that are here for a good time, not a long time. I need a truck to do a job: get my family and our gear from point A to remote point B and back with no fuss for as many trips as I want to get out of it. If it can't accomplish that task for at least 200k miles without nagging issues or major repairs, I just don't want it. I really could not care any less how fast it is at passing. I have never had a problem passing anyone in my Tundra or my 570. Needing something to be fast or to feel "fun" is not in the job description for my 6,000 lb utilitarian vehicles. For a sports car or zippy commuter? Sure.

The idea that Toyota trucks and SUVs need to "catch up" to what has historically been shown to be objectively shorter service life is laughable to me.

 

[TeCKis300]

It is a loaded comment because Ford developed a 3.5L Turbo motor and put it in trucks 14 years ago and didnt have these issues with bearings or bottom ends failing at 20k miles.

Are we really putting Ford up as a benchmark? Cam phasers?

 

[malden]

Needing something to be fast or to feel "fun" is not in the job description for my 6,000 lb utilitarian vehicles. For a sports car or zippy commuter?

Not to mention that driving at those kinds of excessive speeds should be done on a track and not on public roads. Your speed limits are 55 or 65 mph. Right? If you get caught driving 35-50 mph over the speed limit in Europe, you will lose your license forever, pay a huge fine and do a year in jail for public endangerment. And yet I see huge Ford trucks slaloming at 120 mph in 55 and 65mph zones here in AZ almost everyday, and almost everyday there are tragic accidents. People need to find other ways to combat their stress. Killing or endangering other humans and their families is not a good way.

 

[Madtiger]

I don't know man, for a utilitarian vehicle such as a truck or a Land Cruiser, I find this metric to be completely irrelevant. I don't want trucks that are here for a good time, not a long time. I need a truck to do a job: get my family and our gear from point A to remote point B and back with no fuss for as many trips as I want to get out of it. If it can't accomplish that task for at least 200k miles without nagging issues or major repairs, I just don't want it. I really could not care any less how fast it is at passing. I have never had a problem passing anyone in my Tundra or my 570. Needing something to be fast or to feel "fun" is not in the job description for my 6,000 lb utilitarian vehicles. For a sports car or zippy commuter? Sure.

The idea that Toyota trucks and SUVs need to "catch up" to what has historically been shown to be objectively shorter service life is laughable to me.

Highway acceleration can be important if you travel on single lane roads like i do and have to pass someone.

I am sure that my Toyota will outlast my Ford…but at this very moment, my Ford is FAR more practical for my needs than my LC. Far more. I am sure that in the race to 200-300k+ miles, the Ford will statistically be worst.

But as of right now with 21k miles on my Ford, I have had LESS issues than i have had with my 59k miles LC when it was at similar age. My LC infotainment center gave up the ghost at under 30k miles. Both have similar amount of rattles at times…basically none. My Ford gets 4-5 mpg better than LC.

The only place where LC has clear advantage are off-road capability and longevity. Other than that, daily driving, comfort, practicality / features, etc. all favor Ford.

 

[Madtiger]

Not to mention that driving at those kinds of excessive speeds should be done on a track and not on public roads. Your speed limits are 55 or 65 mph. Right? If you get caught driving 35-50 mph over the speed limit in Europe, you will lose your license forever, pay a huge fine and do a year in jail for public endangerment. And yet I see huge Ford trucks slaloming at 120 mph in 55 and 65mph zones here in AZ almost everyday, and almost everyday there are tragic accidents. People need to find other ways to combat their stress. Killing or endangering other humans and their families is not a good way.

Uh no. This is not about racing.

 

[Supra Turbo]

Not to mention that driving at those kinds of excessive speeds should be done on a track and not on public roads. Your speed limits are 55 or 65 mph. Right? If you get caught driving 35-50 mph over the speed limit in Europe, you will lose your license forever, pay a huge fine and do a year in jail for public endangerment. And yet I see huge Ford trucks slaloming at 120 mph in 55 and 65mph zones here in AZ almost everyday, and almost everyday there are tragic accidents. People need to find other ways to combat their stress. Killing or endangering other humans and their families is not a good way.

It's all relative to where you live and how others drive around you, local laws, enforcement, corruption, etc.

Most near my house in US drive around "normally" at 90+mph in 80-85mph speed limit zones. Very often can be seen going 100-110mph.

Even higher in Eastern Europe. They don't care about losing their (often times) fake license, paying a fine and or buying themselves out of jail.. that's if they get caught to begin with.