Very important information from a guy in the industry.
@greynolds and
@Madtiger
I’ve thought for years about how to warn people about the amount of money I see thrown away on bad products and bad labor. I’ve lost count on the amount of hours I spend fixing things that should of never been broken.
I’m literally working nights and weekends, on the 11th and last 200 that was planned for this year that we went into knowing that there were problems from a previous install.
I’m sure you can see where that can wear on you. And
@greynolds, that’s why I haven’t been able to talk with you since. When I’ve got trucks in the shop, people in hotels, and damaged suspension, aux tanks, bumper, sliders and frames that were sodomized by someone else, it made it to where I just had to stay focused on getting these things fixed, and fixed to be better than new. As I type this, I had to take a pause because a 4wheel parts stripped out all the threads holding KDSS lines on a ‘19 cruiser.
Now for my comments about the ARB sliders. This is where I knew some people are going to have a problem. But let’s lay some frame work, if you have to take you truck to someone to have work done, there is a good chance you don’t know how to do it yourself. Not always, but most likely. So, if you are not a subject matter expert, then how are you a validation authority?
I believe that maybe, some people would like to know what is not a good product out there. Trust me, they are out there. I could post picture after picture of lots of sliders crushed into rocket panels, but I haven’t. How could I? I work at BudBuilt and therefor I must have a motive? Right?
That's where this may be a shock to some but… I genuinely care about you guys, and NOT a company. Since that quality doesn’t seem to ever present itself, people are not able to believe it.
That’s why I left BudBuilt. I sit here and talk with cruiser guy after cruiser guy and they all say the same thing, “I wish I knew.”
I wanted to be a completely independent person that could help. An advisor if you will. Maybe I install someone, maybe I don’t. Maybe I recommend someone else. It’s all on the table and my only allegiance is to the drivers.
I wanted to be able to show what actually works, and what actually does not work. Instead of being like almost everyone else, and always say how great things are. Ever wonder why people talk about “cruiser lean”, steering pulling, rattles, rough ride, etc, it’s because an installer or a product is not right. This is a great forum, as we don’t mostly don’t attack each other. But where it suffers is I absolutely know people who admit to me that they have problems, but say the opposite on here. Why? So not admit fault? Maybe the next guy would like to know?
Here is another example that I wanted to say something about, but have reserved myself. Till now.
@Madtiger called me about making aluminum sliders. We had a long discussion about how I don’t think aluminum is a good option, but if he wanted them, give Dissent Off Road a call and talk to Ben. Ben is a great guy and if you want an aluminum slider, he is a better option than BudBuilt. That wasn’t what he wanted and wanted me to look into aluminum sliders. I spent 12 hours working the numbers to make aluminum BB sliders and found that it was going to be close to $3k for a pair (economy of scale). Talking again, I asked again what he really plans to do was told, “I just want the look, I don’t really go off road.” That’s when I recommended the ARB sliders as they are light, much cheaper than a custom slider and he could have them immediately. Since he wanted the look, but wasn’t going to use them for anything other than a step, he though that was a good idea and went in his way.
Now we have
@Madtiger who does not know much about off roading, who had to have someone else install them (which is not a negative but yields not seeing the fine details), now become the biggest supporter of ARB sliders. I’ve seen so many posts from him about how great they are. Compared to what? The factory step? Then I post how bad they are from real world experience, and sure enough, he’s right there again to defend them. Defend them as he has driven on a beach with them and rubbed some dirt.
@Madtiger, I don’t have anything against you, but you have a problem where you must tell everyone that whatever is on your truck is great, even though you have yet to actually use them in a situation that warrants their need. That’s a problem that will hurt someone else. Your pride with cost someone else money when they actually off road a product you recommend without actually off roading it. Saw one tap on a rock with a pair recently and now that 200 customer gets to buy sliders again, along with a plastic rocker panel cover. Thank god it didn’t get I there too far and crush the rocker panel itself. Man, I still don’t have anything against you personally. Just from my perspective, I spent hours working for you, then gave you information to help YOU, make the best decision for YOUR application. How many companies would of conned you into spend money with them, just because it is a way to make a buck? Not me, for what you wanted, at the time, I though it was the best option for you. Didn’t ask for anything in return. I’m then met with several instances where you are trying to prove to others that they are stout and can handle abuse. No, no, no. That’s not what we discussed, and that’s not what you admitted to. I’m glad you are happy, and I’m glad I still recommend them to you. But they should not be recommend for actual off road use. They have their place, and I will probably put a pair on my parents ‘18. They need a good step and they don’t off road.
This in lies the problem of the off road industry. Thousands of people who don’t work on cars, don’t install items they purchase, don’t service their trucks, who have many problems under their vehicle, but they are blind to them because they don’t know what to look for, now become a validating authority on a product. “I have them, and they are great.” Hear it all the time, but then when you dig deeper you start to pick you get the shallow experience and lack of case uses.
Review from an Installer
So here is Rob, just Rob saying what I see about ever slider out there. You all can hate me for this, that’s fine, but I’ve installed almost all of them and seen most of the them hit a rock.
BB are built for real off roading. They are expense, they take long to get, and they are the heaviest. If you don’t off road, then BB doesn’t offer you anything over anyone else. The thread plate is welded in which makes power coating hard to get into the bottom side of the thread. They were refined by me, over 80 installs I did personally. BB only had good communion when I worked there. Bud is just not able to keep up with the emails and it is going to be rough going forward. I think of it like King Shocks. The best at what they do, but they have terrible communication. It wasn’t till Filthy Motorsports came along and became the communication bridge for King. The issue will be, unless someone become the bridge, I doubt it will get better.
Slee Land Cruiser 200 sliders (which I bought before I retired from the Army and moved to be by Bud) are pretty good and can take general abuse. They are made too close to the body and I’ve seen three 200s with damaged rocker panels from heavy off roading. I know of two 200s with them that have beat those sliders hard and have no issues. So they are a good option for most. They have a dumb gusset that is welded sideways (which doesn’t help with impacts) cut into the e-brake line. I asked Christo about it and he told me that the e-brake line and slider don’t move so it’s fine. I disagree with that as if you’ve ever seeen under a truck when it is driving, things jiggle like crazy and I find the e-brake line cut on from years of use.
Slee LX570 sliders. They are not strong, they buckle easily from hitting a rock. They look good though.
Metal tech Land Cruiser sliders. Mounted waaayyyyy to close to the body. Just driving down the road, I’ve had 200s come in and seen the rock panel cracked cracked from them. U-bolts are Greta for box trucks, not for sliders. When you have only one side mounted with a u-bolt and ally leverage 13” away from the mounting point, they deflect way more than you want. That’s why they cause damage when hitting hard.
Metal tech LX570 sliders. They are pretty good and that’s why I would go for if I had an LX570. They could get a bit more adjustment, but the fact that they have a good more amount of material attached to more logical places along the frame make me recommend them the most.
Dissent. The best option for an aluminum slider. Kinda heavy as a lot of aluminum is needed. I’d like to see more mounting points, but all in all, if someone wants a great touring slider and was thinking about ARB or Slee LX570 sliders, I’d go with Dissent in a heartbeat.
White Knuckle. Great guy, good product. I don’t like the U-bolt design for reason if deflection mentioned about, but what’s knuckle give about the same clearance from his slider to the body as BudBuilt. So while a white knuckle deflects, it has the space to not hit the truck.
Rocky road. A joke, I mean, I… I just can’t describe how bad they are. But all their sliders are awful. They are for looks and that’s it.
ARB, look great. Light at 34 pounds per side. Great stepping surface for the front. Climbing in and out of a 200s rear seats with them on, I slipped bad. The thread plate doesn’t cover in a good way for the rear passengers. Poorly attached and can deflect them with my hand lifting on the lead edge. They have a bolt on front piece to be modular with their roo bars and that makes for a very weak front edge that gets his when off roading.
So that’s my story. I’m starting something where you can actually talk to a someone who IS NOT going to try and sell you on a bunch of stuff that you may not need or you shouldn’t buy. My goal is to work with people and help them build the best truck, for them, not for a companies bank account, not for the gram (unless that is actually the goal) and not to make someone else on a forum happy.
Things that I need to work on. I had way too many people need help at once when transitioning away from BB and just trying to not screw over previously planned builds. At the end of the day, and I don’t ever want this to be a reason why anyone would support me. I’m a 100% disabled combat veteran. I career infantryman who had so much experience putting vehicles in places that commanders didn’t think a vehicle could get, that I moved into building non-standard vehicles (mostly Toyotas) for direct action use. I also was a lead on some of the next generation combat vehicles you will see roll out in the coming years. But I have organ damage and am slowly deteriorating as I’m not regenerating. 11 surgeries, 2 years of trying to figure out what was wrong, and given 10 years to live. That was 2.5 years ago. People have been trying to kill me my whole life, and well they are dead and I’m not. I’m good at fighting and I used a lot of vehicles to do it. That’s why my experience is hard to compare to in the civilian world.
So my motivation is now to try and make the world a better place. I’m only good at fighting and trucks, so my contribution is to help someone who just wants to have a good time, have a good time. Not waste money, not have their expensive truck get damaged, just enjoy life. If I help someone else enjoy their day, maybe, just maybe, they will pass it on. Just like in war, someone people you are trying to save, and to do that, you have to kill others. Well, to help build a good truck, sometimes, you have to say what is bad out there.
www.rocky-road.com
). The ARB sliders are tough to get right now anyway, or at least one of the required parts is (nobody has the part in stock and nobody knows when more will be available), so I won't be going with that option any time soon.
job. You drill 6 holes in the bottom of the frame and then use their self-tapping bolts. The rest of their mounting is bolt-on. It doesn't compromise the frame and if you ever wanted to remove them you'd just remove the bolts.
