$2,800 to replace timing belt and water pump? (1 Viewer)

[97 AZ LC]

My 1998 maintenance manual says to "replace timing belt" at 90k miles or 72 months. It says nothing about a timing belt service, which I believe is something the internet has come up with. The factory service manual doesn't say to replace the water pump, pulleys or tensioner, only to inspect those items. An OEM Mitsuboshi belt costs only about $35. There are people, some on this forum, that suggest a thousand dollars in parts for this "timing belt service" that has been developed over the years through OCD escalation. Being only partially OCD I believe the case can be made for also replacing pulleys - which are not that expensive even for OEM. So I'm out about $100 for a timing belt job - and I kind of enjoy doing it. But there's no way I'm going to do it at 72 months when the belt looks like new, as it always does. But $2800 every 90k is beyond the pale - rendering the vehicle economically unviable in my view.

 

[ace10]

My 1998 maintenance manual says to "replace timing belt" at 90k miles or 72 months. It says nothing about a timing belt service, which I believe is something the internet has come up with. The factory service manual doesn't say to replace the water pump, pulleys or tensioner, only to inspect those items. An OEM Mitsuboshi belt costs only about $35. There are people, some on this forum, that suggest a thousand dollars in parts for this "timing belt service" that has been developed over the years through OCD escalation. Being only partially OCD I believe the case can be made for also replacing pulleys - which are not that expensive even for OEM. So I'm out about $100 for a timing belt job - and I kind of enjoy doing it. But there's no way I'm going to do it at 72 months when the belt looks like new, as it always does. But $2800 every 90k is beyond the pale - rendering the vehicle economically unviable in my view.

On one hand, you want to abide by Toyota's guideline for only replacing the belt, but on the other you want to ignore the time interval stated in the same documentation.

That's not OCD, it's cognitive dissonance.

 

[97 AZ LC]

On one hand, you want to abide by Toyota's guideline for only replacing the belt, but on the other you want to ignore the time interval stated in the same documentation.

That's not OCD, it's cognitive dissonance.

Exactly, one must always remember that auto manufacturers are not always right, they sometimes makes mistakes, like saying that a non-VVT 2UZ-FE is an interference motor. The best practice is to stay on your toes and keep thinking.

 

[BullElk]

Am I correct that you change your oil based on visual inspection, not mileage?

Folks whining about the costs of these vehicles, especially for services that are due every 90k miles or 9 years own the wrong vehicle.

If you would like to compare hundy longevity, performance and ownership costs of many hundy copies, I will be glad to do so to learn how I can get more miles, performance with less costs. I'm all ears. However until then.....

You are correct, I change engine oil based on its cleanliness not some mileage increment.

I am personally not whining about the costs of timing belt services....nor do I pay said costs. I'm calling out the ridiculousness of a pre VVTI interference engine hundy owners being indoctrinated to think they MUST get a timing belt service done at any cost based on some mileage or time interval, especially $2800, (I get that prices are regional and but would not say based on mechanic competancy) then whining about the high cost that is "required" to own a 100 series. Rubbish. Real life begs to differ.

When the real truth is that TB service is rarely "needed" due to a mileage or year increment. Actually it is rare for any of the parts included to be worn or needed to be replaced within 90k miles or 72 months. This work is completed and paid for and then whined about as "high cost of hundy ownership" largely for one reason.....the owner chooses that option because thats what they are told to do by mechanics and other hundy owners before real life experience shows them otherwise....and peace of mind, which I do not disagree generally has a value.

I recently had two TB services completed.... 1. 2000 LX with 326k miles since last service. Drive fine, no issues at all.... other than saving cash, not doing the service every 90k miles to pay for another '99 LC for $2800 and drove it everyday for five years and never needing a TB service for it either. Only reason to change the 326k belt and components was because the original A/C compressor went out at 446K miles and decided to get a little crazy and got the TB work done at same time. Then last week had my son's 2000 LX TB service completed because the water pump was leaking, I think was about 8 years old. Which is an excellent reason to get TB service work completed, imo. And first water pump I've ever had to leak.

I have been all about getting the most out of my 14 Lexii LCs at the least cost possible. Perhaps if more hundy owners used nothing but Supertech 15w40 and paid for TB services when they needed it they would see that hundys are not really expensive to own afterall. I wouldn't own them if they were.

OCD has a high cost of ownership, not the best vehicle made.

 

[2001LC]

@2001LC
Nice job pulling the motor to do the oil pump and pans.

THX!

Do you typically remove the intake manifold before pulling the motor?

No!

I was doing timing belt, S.A.I. filter modification (VVTi only) and starter while in there. So I had to, remove intake intake manifold (IT) anyway. IT off, gave me easy access to wires for starter, knock sensors and S.A.I. system, leaving main wire harness in vehicle. T-belt & Fan bracket off, gave me access to AC, cam & crank and oil sending unit wires. Those all, otherwise would made removing harness from engine, to much extra labor. Also, IT off, was required to access front water bypass. Which I replaced, also due to bad INDY service damage (Pitting).

I left the radiator & AC compressor in engine bay. It was tight, but just enough room.

FWIW. I considered three options, to correct the INDY shops cross-threading in oil pump, of tensioner pulley bolt capture threads.

• Time-Sert thread repair in oil pump, in situ. Concern; Drilling & tapping at precise right angle, and metal very likely falling into engine crankcase. Thread in mud, where one was done in situ w/helicoil. Recent post by OP, stating: failed at ~4 yr 64K mile. One could take that chance, with non VVti.
• R&R oil pans & pump from below, engine in situ. Labor to remove front diff and FDS's. Difficulty keeping oil off block FIPG sealing surface. Which must be 100% clean and free of oil, to get a seal. Note: I've had 4.7L engine on stand before, with oil pans off. Drip oil for weeks.
• Pull engine, to roll upside down on engine stand. Reduce change of a sealing issue. FSM recommended.

Here something I do to midgate pitting on block, under water pump gasket. That means I must take two days of my shop space/time at minimum. Why; If not done pitts get worst. I also work to have overall condition always better, than it was before I touch it. In some cases, better than factory. As we do have few design issues, and some that we do to just to get us past the 25 yr design life.

 

[kevgentile]

I like @BullElk thought process

 

[3_puppies]

Just an FYI… Labor charge for recent timing belt service. Aisin kit TKT-021 and oil pump gasket. Excellent mechanic with OCD work ethic. This as a result of my first ever leaking water pump.

View attachment 3802049

@BullElk
question on the paid bill you posted.
it shows $17.51 total in parts and $552 in labor
not sure an Aisin kit TKT-021 kit was purchased and installed as it is not listed in parts or the guy got a great deal on the kit, I'm unsure what was done and paid for????

 

[2001LC]

^^^^ Agree with this guy, @BullElk !

I fix what needs to be fixed, when it needs to be fixed. The worst term I've heard since joining the community is "baseline."
As a full-time mechanic, all I saw was a waste of money. I have the same durability and reliability as any other on here.

I've see a few of those. They know when it needs fixing. When needs towed in.

The 100 series was designed to be maintained. Not baselining, a 20 to 27 year old vehicle with some up to 500K miles. Being own and serviced, by who knows how, how serviced and what fluids. Is asking for cascade failures' and a tow. Which will cost more, in the long run.

 

[BullElk]

@BullElk
question on the paid bill you posted.
it shows $17.51 total in parts and $552 in labor
not sure an Aisin kit TKT-021 kit was purchased and installed as it is not listed in parts or the guy got a great deal on the kit, I'm unsure what was done and paid for????

That was just the charge for labor and that seal. I provided the Aisin kit I bought from the jungle store Amazon.

Correction....I got that kit from Summit Racing for about $190.

 

[kevgentile]

I've see a few of those. They know when it needs fixing. When needs towed in.

The 100 series was designed to be maintained. Not baselining, a 20 to 27 year old vehicle with some up to 500K miles. Being own and serviced, by who knows how, how serviced and what fluids. Is asking for cascade failures' and a tow. Which will cost more, in the long run.

To each his own. As a mechanic I can get away with it. Knock on wood, have never required a tow in 25+ years. Others that have no basic mechanical skills should follow a more rigid maintenance formula, but with a little common sense.

 

[rexington14]

If you would like to compare hundy longevity, performance and ownership costs of many hundy copies, I will be glad to do so to learn how I can get more miles, performance with less costs. I'm all ears. However until then.....

You are correct, I change engine oil based on its cleanliness not some mileage increment.

I am personally not whining about the costs of timing belt services....nor do I pay said costs. I'm calling out the ridiculousness of a pre VVTI interference engine hundy owners being indoctrinated to think they MUST get a timing belt service done at any cost based on some mileage or time interval, especially $2800, (I get that prices are regional and but would not say based on mechanic competancy) then whining about the high cost that is "required" to own a 100 series. Rubbish. Real life begs to differ.

When the real truth is that TB service is rarely "needed" due to a mileage or year increment. Actually it is rare for any of the parts included to be worn or needed to be replaced within 90k miles or 72 months. This work is completed and paid for and then whined about as "high cost of hundy ownership" largely for one reason.....the owner chooses that option because thats what they are told to do by mechanics and other hundy owners before real life experience shows them otherwise....and peace of mind, which I do not disagree generally has a value.

I recently had two TB services completed.... 1. 2000 LX with 326k miles since last service. Drive fine, no issues at all.... other than saving cash, not doing the service every 90k miles to pay for another '99 LC for $2800 and drove it everyday for five years and never needing a TB service for it either. Only reason to change the 326k belt and components was because the original A/C compressor went out at 446K miles and decided to get a little crazy and got the TB work done at same time. Then last week had my son's 2000 LX TB service completed because the water pump was leaking, I think was about 8 years old. Which is an excellent reason to get TB service work completed, imo. And first water pump I've ever had to leak.

I have been all about getting the most out of my 14 Lexii LCs at the least cost possible. Perhaps if more hundy owners used nothing but Supertech 15w40 and paid for TB services when they needed it they would see that hundys are not really expensive to own afterall. I wouldn't own them if they were.

OCD has a high cost of ownership, not the best vehicle made.

I see your points, but what I don't quite understand is if you are that cost conscious why on earth would you ever drive a 100 series with an inefficient gas guzzling V8 motor in the first place?

Fuel is obviously the number one expense - by far.

Driving a 100 series for a full 90k mile timing belt interval while averaging 14mpg paying $3/gal for gas costs you $19,285. So, considering you are quite literally burning all of that cash, what's another ~$2k to get a properly done timing belt service at Toyota's recommended interval? By skipping it you aren't saving much in the grand scheme of 100 series ownership costs.

If you don't think 100's are expensive to own, you'd be amazed at how much less a mid 2000's Corolla would cost to own.

 

[Rhetoric]

If you would like to compare hundy longevity, performance and ownership costs of many hundy copies, I will be glad to do so to learn how I can get more miles, performance with less costs. I'm all ears. However until then.....

You are correct, I change engine oil based on its cleanliness not some mileage increment.

I am personally not whining about the costs of timing belt services....nor do I pay said costs. I'm calling out the ridiculousness of a pre VVTI interference engine hundy owners being indoctrinated to think they MUST get a timing belt service done at any cost based on some mileage or time interval, especially $2800, (I get that prices are regional and but would not say based on mechanic competancy) then whining about the high cost that is "required" to own a 100 series. Rubbish. Real life begs to differ.

When the real truth is that TB service is rarely "needed" due to a mileage or year increment. Actually it is rare for any of the parts included to be worn or needed to be replaced within 90k miles or 72 months. This work is completed and paid for and then whined about as "high cost of hundy ownership" largely for one reason.....the owner chooses that option because thats what they are told to do by mechanics and other hundy owners before real life experience shows them otherwise....and peace of mind, which I do not disagree generally has a value.

I recently had two TB services completed.... 1. 2000 LX with 326k miles since last service. Drive fine, no issues at all.... other than saving cash, not doing the service every 90k miles to pay for another '99 LC for $2800 and drove it everyday for five years and never needing a TB service for it either. Only reason to change the 326k belt and components was because the original A/C compressor went out at 446K miles and decided to get a little crazy and got the TB work done at same time. Then last week had my son's 2000 LX TB service completed because the water pump was leaking, I think was about 8 years old. Which is an excellent reason to get TB service work completed, imo. And first water pump I've ever had to leak.

I have been all about getting the most out of my 14 Lexii LCs at the least cost possible. Perhaps if more hundy owners used nothing but Supertech 15w40 and paid for TB services when they needed it they would see that hundys are not really expensive to own afterall. I wouldn't own them if they were.

OCD has a high cost of ownership, not the best vehicle made.

Hook, line, and sinker.

Thanks for typing all that out.

 

[BullElk]

why on earth would you ever drive a 100 series with an inefficient gas guzzling V8 motor in the first place?

Because there’s nothing even close to the long term reliability and low cost of up front purchase price of a used version that will allow me to use said vehicle for my intended purpose of being in the woods every day with my job. Tacoma, Tundra, 4runner? Negative….not near enough difference in mpg, family trip luxury, reliability in woods every day and especially used purchase price. I can buy tons of gas to pump into the best vehicle of the bunch for what I save in just purchase price alone compared to the other options.

what's another ~$2k to get a properly done timing belt service at Toyota's recommended interval? By skipping it you aren't saving much in the grand scheme of 100 ownership

Uhh. That would be two thousand dollars that I did not spend nor need to spend therefore saving, which to me is “much” in the grand scheme of things. At the same time not complaining about high cost of ownership. This isn’t complicated.

But rather wait until my pre ‘06-07 actually needed it, like it did. Also, I do plan to do TB service on my ‘06 version for catastrophic prevention. Maybe I’ll use the “$2k” I didn’t spend unnecessarily.

If you don't think 100's are expensive to own, you'd be amazed at how much less a mid 2000's Corolla would cost to own.

Correct I don’t think my Hundys have been expensive to own so far but for me a Corrolla may be even more expensive to own in a short period of time. The tow bills every time I got stuck in a water puddle and the work time lost in the process would make me complain about cost of ownership like I hear other hundy owners say about the hundy they own.

What I don’t understand is when did $2k stop being significant Jack?

 

[BullElk]

Hook, line, and sinker.

Thanks for typing all that out.

With respect, Sir

 

[rexington14]

Because there’s nothing even close to the long term reliability and low cost of up front purchase price of a used version that will allow me to use said vehicle for my intended purpose of being in the woods every day with my job. Tacoma, Tundra, 4runner? Negative….not near enough difference in mpg, family trip luxury, reliability in woods every day and especially used purchase price. I can buy tons of gas to pump into the best vehicle of the bunch for what I save in just purchase price alone compared to the other options.


Uhh. That would be two thousand dollars that I did not spend nor need to spend therefore saving, which to me is “much” in the grand scheme of things. At the same time not complaining about high cost of ownership. This isn’t complicated.

But rather wait until my pre ‘06-07 actually needed it, like it did. Also, I do plan to do TB service on my ‘06 version for catastrophic prevention. Maybe I’ll use the “$2k” I didn’t spend unnecessarily.

Correct I don’t think my Hundys have been expensive to own so far but for me a Corrolla may be even more expensive to own in a short period of time. The tow bills every time I got stuck in a water puddle and the work time lost in the process would make me complain about cost of ownership like I hear other hundy owners say about the hundy they own.

What I don’t understand is when did $2k stop being significant Jack?

I'm not exactly sure what's going on here.

Are you trying to justify driving a vehicle that costs $20,000 (let this number sink in) in fuel every 90k miles... and at the same time claim it's a low cost of ownership vehicle solely because you can skip the manufacturer recommended timing belt service that's due at this interval (which is less than 10% of the fuel costs)? But, if you pay for the TB service, it's a high cost of ownership vehicle?

Good for you, I guess? Skip the service or don't - you've still spent a fortune. A 100 series is expensive to own.

 

[1MOA]

That would be the one

That thing is beat. I would suggest you actually talk to Ryan.

 

[BullElk]

I'm not exactly sure what's going on here.

Are you trying to justify driving a vehicle that costs $20,000 (let this number sink in) in fuel every 90k miles... and at the same time claim it's a low cost of ownership vehicle solely because you can skip the manufacturer recommended timing belt service that's due at this interval (which is less than 10% of the fuel costs)? But, if you pay for the TB service, it's a high cost of ownership vehicle?

Good for you, I guess? Skip the service or don't - you've still spent a fortune. A 100 series is expensive to own.

Not exactly. I'm saying paying for TB service when not needed is one example that creates a much higher cost of ownership than a hundy owner needs to be paying, while complaining about the high cost of ownership. To add to that cost is a high purchase price, bearings every 30k ?, rotors every whatever, tranny fluid every whatever, new coolant every whatever, flush brake fluid every whatever, flush power steering ATF every whatever, etc. etc. Of which I do none of those just to do it because of some prevention reason. And no issues, no regrets, no wasted cash and lower cost of ownership as a result. That is not theoretical.

So no, not soley because you can skip the unneeded TB interval.

Justifying low cost of ownership is whatever you want to compare it too. Fuel cost is expensive compared to a corolla but not compared to a Tundra, Tacoma, 4runner, etc., which still wouldn't serve my purpose and purchase price would defeat the purpose entirely. This is the whole point and benefit of owning 100 series, unlike anything else I have ever heard of.......you can buy them very cheap, because I've done it several times and run them for years with no payments, no engine or tranny issues....and no OCD maintenance required. Most owners just don't believe it.

100 series are much less expensive to own compared to owners who spend OCD money on unneeded work instead of being OCD about cost to benefit efficiency. I'm not suggesting a theory. Just stating the facts as I have experienced them.

 

[rexington14]

Not exactly. I'm saying paying for TB service when not needed is one example that creates a much higher cost of ownership than a hundy owner needs to be paying, while complaining about the high cost of ownership. To add to that cost is a high purchase price, bearings every 30k ?, rotors every whatever, tranny fluid every whatever, new coolant every whatever, flush brake fluid every whatever, flush power steering ATF every whatever, etc. etc. Of which I do none of those just to do it because of some prevention reason. And no issues, no regrets, no wasted cash and lower cost of ownership as a result. That is not theoretical.

So no, not soley because you can skip the unneeded TB interval.

Justifying low cost of ownership is whatever you want to compare it too. Fuel cost is expensive compared to a corolla but not compared to a Tundra, Tacoma, 4runner, etc., which still wouldn't serve my purpose and purchase price would defeat the purpose entirely. This is the whole point and benefit of owning 100 series, unlike anything else I have ever heard of.......you can buy them very cheap, because I've done it several times and run them for years with no payments, no engine or tranny issues....and no OCD maintenance required. Most owners just don't believe it.

100 series are much less expensive to own compared to owners who spend OCD money on unneeded work instead of being OCD about cost to benefit efficiency. I'm not suggesting a theory. Just stating the facts as I have experienced them.

So just buy it cheap, drive it as-is and only fix what needs to be repaired.

Sounds like what to do when buying a 20 year old used Mercedes. Although the 100 probably tolerates this a bit better.

 

[BullElk]

So just buy it cheap, drive it as-is and only fix what needs to be repaired.

Sounds like what to do when buying a 20 year old used Mercedes. Although the 100 probably tolerates this a bit better.

Close

Buy it right by making a good deal up front. Partly by being able to walk away from a notsogood deal and not buying with emotions....Ya know like the ones who pay out the nose for a low mileage hundy that thinks will never have any issues but yet has more issues than one that has been actually driven. The good deal can include issues that you use to negotiate said deal that you can then resolve yourself. So then drive it and repair issues as they come up. With hundys, that has been the best less expensive way of doing business because things don't come up too terribly often.

However, I do not ignore the fact that even hundys are manmade boxes of moving parts, so yes, things fail and do need attention but cost of ownership is one thing and cost of personal preferences is another.

"Although the 100 probably tolerates this a bit better." Uhhh....Yea just a bit.

 

[1point4]

OK, I've talked to the OTRAMM team - no complaints on them - they seem like stand up people and certainly know what they are talking about, even if they aren't cheap - I think this might be the time to sell this car. I'm overseas, I don't have the time and ability to fix this rig. Time to sell it - let me know if anyone wants 2006 Land Cruiser

Big kudos to everyone who helped with advice in this thread!