Builds 1st FJ40, '76 - SMOKEY - Puttin’ her Back Together (2 Viewers)

[Vae Victus]

Not kidding about the videos - they do help and despite my previous experience I learn stuff from this guy all the time .
Sarge

Well familiar with Jody at WeldingTipsandTricks. Own a TIG Finger even. I've "watched" now I just need to "do". I suck and I know it. But, I will get better.

 

[sggoat]

Uh , wow .

Ok , first - I hope that is scrap stock or you can grind it or cut it out . Those welds are laying on top of the metal . Start with a couple pieces of flat stock , lay them on the table with a slight bevel ground on the edges where they join and weld them from there . Tack the ends , then run your bead right down the center . If you use enough heat/voltage the puddle should lay almost flat - use the wire speed/travel rate to build the bead height from there . Should be able to weld all the way through the steel plates - if not , your not using enough heat . Go to Jody's site and check out some of his mig videos - he has a couple that show the arc shots when you are getting correct penetration , and when you are not for reference so you can learn/see the difference . What you are showing above is what usually happens with a newbie and a 110v cheap mig - not acceptable by any means . A couple good hits should break that off . Need to practice a lot on butt joints first , then try lap joints as well as tee/overhead/vertical - they are all steps and settings are different for each type . It's hard to explain this stuff in text - pics and video works a lot better ....
Start here and practice each video series , a lot -

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/mig-welding-basics.html

Or , pack a big lunch , bring beer (Smithwick's) and your machine up here - you'll learn .

Sarge

Smithwicks?? That is some great beer(or was, until guiness bought them and changed the recipe)

 

[Vae Victus]

Did some test welds on some ugly plasma cut 3/16 scrap. After re watching some of Jody's vids, I think I dialed in the wire-speed and voltage. Nice rapid bacon sizzle, good penetration. I wasn't getting penetration on the bottom plate so I slowed down, circled back with a cursive "e" and got good bite.

It's still crooked and lumpy, but that's because my hand isn't moving smoothly.

So, I think this will hold structurally when I do it on the square tube.

 

[Weber Sarge]

Not yet on that rotisserie if that's what you mean - there is an amazing amount of stress on the end supports in that design . Lumps are coming from getting out of the puddle or too far ahead of it . Need to pay close attention to the front of the puddle and just trace that leading edge . Post up some practices , nothing to be embarrassed about - we all have to start somewhere and it may help someone else .
Sarge

 

[Vae Victus]

Ugh, believe me, I'm trying to get these photos up. Internet has been wiggy this am.

Here's two of the last/best runs. Remember that the steel was very uneven and jagged on the edges, not square.

 

[antFJ]

I would think those would work. Not bad for just starting

 

[Vae Victus]

I would think those would work. Not bad for just starting

Thanks. Amazing how subtle welding is. More art than science, but the combination of the two fascinates me.

 

[Weber Sarge]

MUCH more heat ! Need both heat and wire speed above , or you're travel speed is too jerky...
If Nashville wasn't so far , and I wasn't so sore I'd be there this afternoon .
Turn it up high enough the welds are concave , then add wire speed to fill in to crown it slightly . You're still hanging back too far in the puddle , need to trace the front leading edge with your arc , it will help a lot . The hard part is judging how much you're building up at the back of the bead as you travel - that's where travel speed and wire speed cross over .
No way structural yet .
Sarge

 

[Toyoland66]

It also helps to grind your pieces to bare metal, I understand you are just practicing on scrap but having clean metal does help.

 

[Vae Victus]

It also helps to grind your pieces to bare metal, I understand you are just practicing on scrap but having clean metal does help.

I did, just not the entire piece. Pretty ugly stuff.

 

[Vae Victus]

MUCH more heat ! Need both heat and wire speed above , or you're travel speed is too jerky...
If Nashville wasn't so far , and I wasn't so sore I'd be there this afternoon .
Turn it up high enough the welds are concave , then add wire speed to fill in to crown it slightly . You're still hanging back too far in the puddle , need to trace the front leading edge with your arc , it will help a lot . The hard part is judging how much you're building up at the back of the bead as you travel - that's where travel speed and wire speed cross over .
No way structural yet .
Sarge

Hmmm, Sarge is a great nickname! You are tough!

 

[Vae Victus]

Ok, I was at 21.5 v, 350 i/min.

I ran it thru the paces as shown in the photos.

(#1) 23-24v sounds good, looks like its penetrating well. Sizzle, no spatter.

At 25v (#2) more popping and splatter. Less sizzle. I didn't run wire speed up at 25v. Should have but it sounded too hot anyway.

At 27 (#3-5) and up, it starts doing globular transfer. Too hot. No sizzle at all. Just a hiss.

(#6) 23 @ 400 doesn't look like its quite hot enough and too much wire.

24v @ 400 (#7) was hard to control - wire feeding too fast. Ugly weld, I felt I was moving too fast.

24 @ 370 (#8) looks and felt best to my untrained self. Control was there. Weld is neat. Slightly convex.

This shows the side view of #8 and 7.

 

[TheHardWay]

Damn, man, you're having too much fun... Watching this, seems like a welder may be in my future.

 

[Vae Victus]

A longer weld at 24 and 370 ipm

 

[Weber Sarge]

What is the wire size your using ?
Should be around 25v-27v , 320-360 ipm or so . I still do not see a lot of cutting into the bottom plate - need to cut across the weld , make a couple of strips & sand then polish and do an etch . Common Naval Jelly works fine for what you're doing . Need to see what the weld nugget looks like under that bead , still looks like you're lagging behind a bit - try running the wire feed down a bit slower and slow down your travel speed , it looks like you're racing a bit . You almost need a session with an experienced shop guy or local that needs a free lunch , spend some time looking over his shoulder so you better understand how and when to travel .

Properly set , you can lay a bead 1/4-5/16" wide easily on 1/4" steel with no weave , circles , vees or k-garten movements at all - just a steady drag or push and I'd suggest drag until you learn a lot more .
30-60 minutes spent with someone else would teach far more than I can from here - much easier than thinking about it and trying to type a physical movement/feeling , it really is hands-on stuff .

Sarge

 

[71FJnick]

Good pics and nice to see Sarge's feedback.
You may get a feel for the weld penetration by cross sectioning the weld with a bandsaw.
Might help you see what Sarge is seeing with respect to driving heat into the lower plate.
Another weld test is to bend the plates back towards the weld bead, opening up the backside of the weld. You'll be able to see how far you weld penetrates the metal based on amperage and speed.
Even though you can tell a lot about a weld visually, especially experienced guys, dissecting the weld can help a lot when you're starting out.
Any certification test for welding will cut the plate up and do a bend test.

 

[Weber Sarge]

Yep , bandsaw , hacksaw - just don't use cutoff wheels as the heat will distort the results . Use a very fine flap wheel to polish out the cross section and a scotch brite disk does a great job for final polishing .

Another thing that might help - try positioning two pieces of plate with a 1/8" gap , use spacers underneath to give a gap to the welding table and weld that gap closed . This will teach some about penetration , just remember that tightly fitted joints require more heat to drive the puddle all the way through . Structural weld tests I have to do for building tabs is 1/8" gap on 3/8" plate vertical up with a specified number of passes by the inspector - that first bead has to protrude past the plates but no more than 1/16" past , that one is a pain with 6010 stick and an unknown machine . You are starting out the same way - this machine may run hot or cold , just depends on power it's getting and condition of cables, ect . May want to very closely inspect the ground clamp - if the wire does not go directly into a hard brass or copper clamping point but is more like a cheap battery jumper cable clamp it needs replaced . You must transmit ground solidly or the welder will run very cold and erratic .

Clamps like this style are not the best choice and will lose a lot of amperage -
http://www.amazon.com/Forney-54410-Welding-Ground-300-Amp/dp/B002YCJ4OU

This one is a lot better although these have a habit of overheating their springs and get weak over time -
http://store.cyberweld.com/grounclam400.html

This is what I use on my TIG/stick machine -
http://www.amazon.com/Forney-54400-Welding-Ground-300-Amp/dp/B002O0BGV6

Also , an old chunk of welding cable wound tightly and wrapped around parts makes an excellent grounding source - just hook your clamp to that and go...makes re-positioning easier too .

Sarge

 

[Vae Victus]

So, on 3/16" (0.188") plate, 0.030 wire, it should be 188x2 = 370-380 ipm. If it's going globular at 27v - I can't do anything about that, right? Max I can go then is about 25v, and at that it's so hot it's burning up the wire before it hits the puddle. At 26v it's really getting bad. At 27 it's just vapor.

How many inches per minute should I be traveling? I feel like I'm going a good slow speed, dwelling on the bottom plate, getting good bite.

I'll cut it and look at the penetration.

Remember, I'm not trying to pass the certification test for the local welders union.

Sarge - what specifically am I looking for to see the penetration on the bottom plate? Tell me what you are seeing.

 

[Weber Sarge]

There is no haz - or heat affected zone showing on the bottom plate . In fact , most of the weld appears to be sitting on top of the plates - a test strip will show the results . If you're starting to vaporize at 26 , then run 25v and dial the ipm in from there . Travel speed depends on how a particular piece of metal burns , some are faster than other due to content and alloy . I'm not in a local welder's union , but a Union Laborer that gets stuck doing a lot of welding - go figure . Pipefitters in this area won't do casing pipe on most jobs and we handle our own building structural tie plates - I lost my AWS certs years ago due to my eyes and lack of practice . You have to send in verified paperwork every 6 months to document hours spent doing that type of work you are certified for . It's about safety - that rotisserie is going to see some serious stress when you mount and rotate that tub , hate to see it fail and potentially injure someone . The cut/polish/etch will give you direct feedback on what the weld nugget is doing right after you complete a weld - it's very good to have that feedback in relationship to understanding what you are seeing while welding and any potential problems . I spoke before about mig welds that look fine but are very weak due to a lack of penetration - this is one of those times .

The only pic that looked reasonable was #2 - 25v @350ipm . I can tell from those pics though you are letting the leading edge get ahead of you - so either less wire speed or more travel speed . What exactly are you doing with the gun ? Making a pattern ? What angle is gun at ? To me , looks like very low angle on the gun - it should be a bit more than 45* to the material , higher angle will give more arc force . It can be hard to run anything but a low angle for beginners , they want that nozzle out of the way so they can see better .
BTW - does that machine have programming for adaptive hot start ?

Sarge

 

[Vae Victus]

There is no haz - or heat affected zone showing on the bottom plate . In fact , most of the weld appears to be sitting on top of the plates - a test strip will show the results . If you're starting to vaporize at 26 , then run 25v and dial the ipm in from there . Travel speed depends on how a particular piece of metal burns , some are faster than other due to content and alloy . I'm not in a local welder's union , but a Union Laborer that gets stuck doing a lot of welding - go figure . Pipefitters in this area won't do casing pipe on most jobs and we handle our own building structural tie plates - I lost my AWS certs years ago due to my eyes and lack of practice . You have to send in verified paperwork every 6 months to document hours spent doing that type of work you are certified for . It's about safety - that rotisserie is going to see some serious stress when you mount and rotate that tub , hate to see it fail and potentially injure someone . The cut/polish/etch will give you direct feedback on what the weld nugget is doing right after you complete a weld - it's very good to have that feedback in relationship to understanding what you are seeing while welding and any potential problems . I spoke before about mig welds that look fine but are very weak due to a lack of penetration - this is one of those times .

The only pic that looked reasonable was #2 - 25v @350ipm . I can tell from those pics though you are letting the leading edge get ahead of you - so either less wire speed or more travel speed . What exactly are you doing with the gun ? Making a pattern ? What angle is gun at ? To me , looks like very low angle on the gun - it should be a bit more than 45* to the material , higher angle will give more arc force . It can be hard to run anything but a low angle for beginners , they want that nozzle out of the way so they can see better .
BTW - does that machine have programming for adaptive hot start ?

Sarge

I wonder what the makeup of this steel is I'm testing on. It's cut from an old box blade from a bush hog that we scrapped. Took a few pieces to make some shooting targets. Since this test piece is so narrow, and it was so pitted and dirty before I cleaned it, it's hard to see any HAZ, but I agree that the bottom plate is not appearing to be as hot as it should be.

Leading edge getting away - in my mind I'm trying to do like Jody and make little cursive "e"s. I'm trying to advance the weld by just going outside the last loop, but focusing (after feedback here) on keeping inside the molten pool. What do you mean the "leading edge is getting ahead" of me? Seems like I need to slow down and get more penetration to the bottom plate, not speed up.

Angle - I need to pay attention to this. I think I'm at 40-45* but it is probably lower since I'm inexperienced and not focused on that, and trying to watch like you said.

I'll see if I can get it to dial in at 25 - 26v. So I'll likely need to increase the wire speed slightly to get a more consistent burn (sizzle), yes?

I appreciate the feedback and mentoring from you and everyone else who has commented. Keep it coming. Gotta do the real job now, so testing will come at a premium for the next few days.

No hot start: the S22-A has an optional add on for that type of thing which is not on my unit.