This is fantastic, I’m following this as I feel this will be a major improvement over the factory ratios.
I considering a 5speed swap but this more appealing!
I considering a 5speed swap but this more appealing!
1FZ trans swaps 6R80 10R80 and more (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter hazard
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #22
Looks great! Hope I can do as well.
I think the 10 speed is my ticket, but no one came out with a TCU in time.
keep us posted
I think the 10 speed is my ticket, but no one came out with a TCU in time.
keep us posted
10/10 thread
I like the 10 speed option also. Who doesn't want even more gears? I drive one in my F150 every day.
But, I want to do this now, and a year ago there was no TCU available. Now there is an option, but no one has done a swap of a Ford 10 speed with it yet, into anything. This whole venture is outside my comfort zone. At least I can follow in the footsteps of all of the 8HP swaps that have been done with the TurboLamik. I think having multiple options for transmission swaps is a good thing. It could be the next big J80 modification wave.....
- Thread starter
- #25
I think the adapters I had made will also work with the 10R80. If not very close. The machinist could adjust.
- Thread starter
- #26
By the way; shout out to Performance Adapters down south. It was a complex job but they got it done. He has all the blueprints if anyone wants one.
Well this sure got interesting! How would that tcu work if one were to use a stand alone ecm like a haltech 2500? That’s what I’m using currently with the stock ecm controlling the a343. I was planning to control the 343 with the haltech but it’s tricky to figure out and I need a stronger transmission anyway.
The TurboLamik is designed to use CAN communication if available in the car. The J80 does not have this. But, most modern stand alone ECU's do have CAN communication. TurboLamik lists a few in their manual that they do support:
Even if it cannot get the engine data directly from the stand alone ECU via CAN, you can always hard wire it into the sensors. It needs the TPS output. It also wants MAP(Bosch 0281002401), but that will end up being a new, independent sensor that is added just for the TCU. It needs engine RPM. Handbrake and footbrake inputs also.
- Thread starter
- #29
The HTG Tuning TCU can also interface with most aftermarket ecu’s via CAN, see here,
htg-tuning.com
I was originally concerned about this but I think there is no real need to have them talk to each other, a stand alone TCU will need a couple inputs, speed, tps, rpm etc, but it’s all pretty easy. In fact, might be simpler to keep them separate, and most tcu’s are self learning.
I really like the looks of the US Shift TCU, but not available for many transmissions.
www.usshift.com
HTG full support list | HTG tuning
Full PRESET support list for HTG products. Valid for 1.0.14 release (24.10.2023) HTG tuning GCU Gearbox Control Unit and HTG IO CAN gateway are flexible enough to support any combo and custom electronics but those that are most popular are added as preset for easy configuration. If You cannot...
htg-tuning.com
I was originally concerned about this but I think there is no real need to have them talk to each other, a stand alone TCU will need a couple inputs, speed, tps, rpm etc, but it’s all pretty easy. In fact, might be simpler to keep them separate, and most tcu’s are self learning.
I really like the looks of the US Shift TCU, but not available for many transmissions.
Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control with Remote Display
The Quick 6 controller allows the 6R80 Clutch-to-Clutch transmission to be implemented in a wide variety of vehicles, including ones not originally equipped with electronic control. It also allows customization of the transmission's behavior with an intuitive, user-friendly UI. The compact...
www.usshift.com
I don’t understand 90% of what anyone is saying on here but if y’all do this mod and work out kinks and someone starts selling a kit I would 100000000% do this when my trans needs to be replaced some day.
- Thread starter
- #31
Very confident it will work. However the cost is high. Rough costs for my 6T80 conversion:
$5,000 for trans
$1,800 for TCU
$1,100 custom transfer case shaft
$2,000 matching and materials
Won’t tell you cost for design and. Templating. I’m probably in for about $14,000.
I tried to get more people to order but had no takers. If you were to order 10 units, after all design r&r is paid, a kit might be about $3,500 without trans or controller.
All worth it to me though and I will be doing again with 10 speed.
$5,000 for trans
$1,800 for TCU
$1,100 custom transfer case shaft
$2,000 matching and materials
Won’t tell you cost for design and. Templating. I’m probably in for about $14,000.
I tried to get more people to order but had no takers. If you were to order 10 units, after all design r&r is paid, a kit might be about $3,500 without trans or controller.
All worth it to me though and I will be doing again with 10 speed.
SmokingRocks
hopelessly addicted to Cruisers
I'm curious as to what the difference in efficiency is between the the 6/10R80's / 8HP's vs. the A442F/A343 transmissions
- Thread starter
- #33
Note about TCU;
The US Shift TCU integrates the transfer case and. Has some 4x4 stuff
The US Shift TCU integrates the transfer case and. Has some 4x4 stuff
that is very interesting. I am considering using that transmission with an engine that will probably piss of the masses lol.
I know the 10R80 is the cheat code trans in the ford mod motor world, ie mustangs and boosted f150's. they shift insanely fast and are relatively strong. I cant really speak on the a442/343 trans as i know nothing about them. But having that many gears would most definitely improve fuel mileage and crawling abilities.
Wow!! so sexy! I always wondered what transmissions people were using when they were doing LS swaps and all that. One would think that with an LS or other swap (or possibly stock engine) and a proper, current tech transmission we could conceivably get close to 20MPG or more.Hazard, thanks for starting this thread and including "and more". I am in the process of swapping a ZF 8HP75 into my J80. I am using the TurboLamik TCU, which is the preferred TCU in the 8HP swap scene.
TurboLamik
TurboLamik TCU. TCU 2.0 by TurboLamik is an advanced transmission controller for the extremely popular and durable ZF 8HP transmissions. It allows you to control the ZF transmission in 8 modes varying from basic automatic to race sequential style.www.turbolamik.us
View attachment 3536240
I am going to dump a bunch of info here for others who may be looking into this, as over the last year I have gathered a lot of information about swapping in a modern transmission into a J80. I cleared this with Hazard ahead of time.
I went with the 8HP transmission because of the proven TurboLamik TCU and it is also shorter than the 10 speeds (when including the output shaft), which helps with the fuel tank issue. Even though it is shorter, with the 8HP75, the adapters, and the intermediate shaft (spline adapter), the overall length is 2.7" longer. Drivelines will need to be lengthened in the front, shortened in the rear. And, there is a conflict between the gas tank and the Speedo output on the transfer case that I am figuring out.
A343F Overall Length, Bell Housing to Output Shaft Tip: 30" (761.5mm)
Dodge 8HP75 Overall Length Bell Housing to Output Shaft Tip: 28" (718mm)
Dodge 8HP75 Swap Overall Length from Bell Housing Adapter to Intermediate Shaft Tip: 32.7" (830.3mm)
Gear ratios for the Dodge 8HP75 are as follows:
1st 4.71:1
2nd 3.14:1
3rd 2.10:1
4th 1.67:1
5th 1.29:1
6th 1.00:1
7th 0.84:1
8th 0.67:1
Reverse 3.30:1
Gear Ratios A343F in the J80:
1st 2.804:1
2nd 1.531:1
3rd 1.000:1
OD .753:1
R 2.393:1
First gear is 68% lower. Not quite a doubler unit for crawling, but significantly lower. I am running the 3.1:1 transfer case gears and 4.88 gears in the diffs. With the 4.71: first gear in the 8HP75: 4.71 * 3.1 * 4.88 = 71.25: 1 crawl ratio on 37" tires. This is more than low enough for what I do with the rig. Final O/D is 11% lower, dropping RPM when cruising at freeway speeds on flat ground.
Adapters are on order and should arrive in February. I did a co-design project with Domiworks in Sweden on the adapters. He will have them available for sale as a kit once the prototype is proven out.
DomiWorks - One Stop Shop for 8HP DCT PDK Transmission swaps
Your one stop shop for gearbox and transmission adapters for DCT, 8HP, PDK swaps. Wide range of adapters and accessories for the most popular engines like 2JZ, LS, K20, K24, Barra, RB26, VQ35, VQ37. We also offer 3D Scanning and product development, using our Creaform Handyscan Black Elite...www.domi-works.com
I purchased an 8HP75 from a 2021 Dodge 1500 Hemi 5.7L V8 4x4 (must be V-8 to get the 8HP75). Those are readily available as Hemi Dodge owners are terrible drivers and wreck them all the time.... The 8HP75 in the Dodge pickups is made in Germany by ZF. It is rated for 525 ft-lbs of torque. I am running a Wit's End Turbo setup at 10 PSI of boost. This will give me some headroom over my current set up if I want to dial the boost up a bit more. The 3/4 ton trucks that came with the 6.4L Hemi get the 8HP75 LCV (Light Commercial Vehicle) variant with extra brazing on the torque converter, two gear sets with extra pinions, and a heavy duty parking pawl design. Otherwise identical, but cost about 2X of the 5.7 Hemi 8HP75.
Dodge does make one of the lower power rated 8HP transmissions under license in the US (8HP45) that is used in Jeeps and some Dodge vehicles. This transmission may be an option for stock 1FZ-FE's, as it is rated at 335 ft lbs of torque and ships behind the V6 in the Dodge pickups. It will be shorter above the crank centerline, as it has a different case and uses smaller diameter clutches and planetary gears. Not sure on the bell housing, transfer case and overall length geometries on that transmission. It may require a different set of adapters versus the 8HP75 behind the V8 in the Dodge pickups. And, it is made by Dodge, which does not bode well for quality, versus the 8HP75, which is made by ZF in Germany.
There is also an 8HP95 that is used in the high performance vehicles. That is made in Germany also, but is rare and expensive in the aftermarket. I guess you could push a turbo 1FZ-FE to the power levels that require the 8HP95, but, then you would break the transfer case or something else.
BMW uses the 8HP75 also in their AWD SUV's. The transmission case is longer on that version, which would push the transfer case back further. It does have the advantage of a 5:1 first gear. The transfer case adapter I designed with DomiWorks is a three piece design. There is a front plate that bolts to the Dodge 8HP75, a middle block that contains the J80 transmission mount geometry, and a rear plate that bolts to the stock J80 transfer case. DomiWorks plans on offering a front plate that would bolt to the BMW transmission, as he already has products that do that and it is an easy part to swap out on the adapter. Mostly he intends that for Europe, where getting Dodge pickup transmissions is difficult.
My rig has a 1" body lift, which will make clearing the 8HP75 in the transmission tunnel easier. The 8HP75 is taller above the crank centerline by about 1" (4" for the 8HP75, 3" for the A343F). I have designed an adapter plate that bolts to the 8HP75 and holds the transfer case shift lever on top, mimicking the A343F.
The mechanical side of these swaps is the easy part. The electronics is a big hurdle. The TCU's are not plug and play. They need access to engine data to determine load conditions and need refining beyond an initial set point to achieve good drivability. If you get that wrong, you can cause severe damage to the transmission. Good news is that once someone nails down the settings for any given configuration, it can be shared with others who then do not need to go through the learning process.
The stock, integrated ECU/TCU will throw a check engine light if the stock transmission is not there. This is a deal breaker for those who have to do periodic smog inspections. (I am working on a fix for this.)
The 8HP transmissions have an integrated TCU in the valve body. This TCU needs to be bypassed. You need to remove the valve body, remove the TCU module, cut open the sealed compartment it lives in, cut all the bonding wires that go to the TCU, and then solder in a jumper PCA that routes all of those signals out to the connector on the side of the transmission for the TurboLamik TCU to access. Sounds worst than it is, but, no sense in getting a warranty on your donor, as you are going to void it when you eliminate the stock TCU. Buy one that came from a wreck that is demonstrated to run and drive.
View attachment 3536186 View attachment 3536187
The TurboLamik TCU works with BMW electronic shifters, plug and play. I have finished a 3D printed adapter design to put a BMW 6 series shifter in place of the stock J80 mechanical shifter. This does require mods to the shifter assembly, including cutting out brackets and the shifter pivot shaft assembly. The knob in the front is an 8 position shift map selector from TurboLamik. Not sure if I can come up with 8 shift maps for the J80.
View attachment 3536179
And lastly, since this is a purely electronic transmission (not shift linkage at all), and Park is controlled by the TCU, and when turned off the default is that the parking pawl is engaged, there is a small linkage on the side of the transmission to manually take the rig out of park when it has to be towed. Right now I am going to put a small bracket down there and then I can use a pin to retain the lever if needed. The cars that ship with this transmission have a lever in the cab that is pulled and ratchets, keeping the transmission out of park.
I should receive the adapters in mid/late February. Will then start the swap and will have a bunch of updates once that gets going.
@landtank and @Alex79 have been a big help on this project. Alex is a good source for spare parts for J80's.
Mike
tmxmotorsports
SILVER Star
I'm not quite understanding at the same time this will not be happening to my 80 lol
That is actually one of the huge benefits. The modern auto's are far more efficient in transferring power from the engine to the driveshaft. As far as real, measured numbers, I cannot find info on the A343F, but would assume it is worst than the five speed mentioned below:
One of the main aims of the ZF 8HP transmission is to improve vehicle fuel economy with extra speeds. Compared to the six-speed ZF 6HP transmission it uses 12% less fuel, and 14% less than a 5-speed transmission.
Not only does the taller Overdrive gear allow lower freeway RPM's, but there are less parasitic losses in the transmission, which means more power to the driveshaft. I am looking forward to some real numbers in the spring after I get the swap done.
$5k for the trans, did you buy it new/rebuilt? I got mine for $1600 from a 2021 Dodge 1500 Hemi V8 with 9700 miles on it. Not sure what DomiWork's price will be for the mechanical swap kit parts. As you have said, depends on how many people buy them. DomiWorks and I split the engineering between us. I did a bunch of CMM measurements on parts from a donor A343F and also did the FEA on the intermediate shaft. Daniel handled the 8HP side of things, plus the drawings and final detailed 3D models. I did ship him a few parts that he 3D scanned on his end. He has a very high end 3D scanner, mine is pretty low rent / low resolution.
