Wrecked my FJ62, seatbelt/insurance question

[Walking Eagle]

Ok, so last Saturday trucking down the road and a lady blows stop sign and causes a collision. Luckily everyone in Cruiser was belted in and just a little sore. Odd thing that happened though was my son's seat belt broke.

After stressing all week on how they would value the vehicle, they say they are going to pay to have it fixed not total it. Surprising cause they started the week saying it would be a total loss. I think they thought it would be worth $1500 like any other 1989 car.

So I tell the adjuster, I only see one problem with the apraisel - it shows ordering a new belt from the dealer and I know it is not available from the dealer. She says "the shop will have to search for one 'comparable' if the exact part is not available. They have resources they use to locate parts all over the country,..." - I'm thinking, well I have IH8MUD and Cruiser Dan so take your resources and..... but I digress. Finally she says she's not a mechanic and so she just let's shop and appraiser work out details. My final e-mail to her states I realize she is not a mechanic, and furthermore I wouldn't expect most mechanics to be aware of the unavailability of a part that was only offered on vehicles in the US for 1.5 years. I just wanted to give her fair warning before work begins on the truck that there is a potential issue of a part not being available and having no 'comparible' part avaialable.

Obviously I can go junkyard parts. But given that this is my second not at fault accident in 14 months I've determined Okies can't drive and it is not a matter of if I will be in another accident but when. This time my 7 and 9 year olds were in the car. And I was really happy I paid the exoberant premium 62's get over 60's to have the factory installed 3-point belts.

So finally to the question - If no factory seat belts are available and there are no comparible parts (I know there is nothing bolt in) then what? Are they forced to total it?

 

[SteveH]

I wouldn't stand on principle and let the whole thing get balled up. I would get 'someone' to put 'something' in there, and figure it out on your own, later. With some reworking, I think 80-series belts can go in there and fit. Don't get a 'total-happy' adjuster get very near your truck.

 

[Elbert]

used parts come to mind.....they don't have to use "new" parts....depending on state regulations. I doubt the seat belt issue will have any bearing on if teh truck totals or does not.

 

[Walking Eagle]

I wouldn't stand on principle and let the whole thing get balled up. I would get 'someone' to put 'something' in there, and figure it out on your own, later. With some reworking, I think 80-series belts can go in there and fit. Don't get a 'total-happy' adjuster get very near your truck.

If they have to be reworked, then 80 series belts are not an acceptible replacement. Since the 'principle' is I want my children to be in a vehicle where I can trust the seatbelts to work as designed by Toyota and not be some combbled together solution that may or may not work when a life threatening emergency happens, I'm fine standing on principle. 'Someone putting something in' is not o.k. when it comes to my kids safety. The whole reason I bought a 62 rather than a 60 is the seat belts. I'd have preferred a carb and 4 spd to auto and fuel injection.

If the choice is to drive a vehicle where I am constantly afraid for my kids lives or letting the truck get totaled, I'll let the truck be a total loss.

I don't think it will come to that, I was just hoping someone who actually works in the industry could fill me in on the laws/rules

 

[Walking Eagle]

used parts come to mind.....they don't have to use "new" parts....depending on state regulations. I doubt the seat belt issue will have any bearing on if teh truck totals or does not.

Used parts for a fender or bumper is one thing. Used parts for seatbelts is a different matter.

 

[lcgeek]

Curious what part of the seat belt broke? Any pics?

 

[stayalert]

Good to hear that everyone is for the most part OK!
Hope your wrist/hand (or whatever it is you're wearing a cast/brace for) heals up well. I'm probably reading into this wrong but I say get the truck going again with whatever formulation of seat belts will work and that YOU think is OK……Granted I have a '67 land rover that I added seat belts to ('cause it didn't have any) and strapped my kids car seats into…My kids are 16 and 18 now so I guess I have been lucky so far….I have a box of used 62 seatbelt parts in the garage to "cobble" into my '85 60 'cause for me it will be an improvement….But if I were as concerned as you sound? I'd be looking at a "modern" rig with airbags and sensors and electronic do this and do that gizmos…..THAT is what someone "in the industry" will tell you.

your seat belts were "used" before your crash but they were OK until your crash…so whats wrong with "used" belts that haven't been in a crash?

Are you going to replace the other seat belts on your truck that weren't damaged/broken in the crash?

I'm not trying to be a dick but I think you might be over thinking this a wee bit…..Heal well and get back at it!

 

[red66toy]

I think there are aftermarket ones available... reevesci just put some in his 60 Gossamer- '87 FJ60 aka "The Red Monster"

They were for the front though, not sure about the back shoulder belts.

 

[stockhorse]

You simply take your hardware (buckles, retractors etc) and have them reconditioned and new webbing fitted. Something we should probably all do with belts of the age that ours are

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

My local upholstery/trim guy used to re-web all my old belts. He would first send them off and have them tested and if they passed he would proceed. Now he won't touch a belt if its 20 years old. Too much liability involved anymore.

I ordered a set and fabricated/modified the upper mount bracket to get them to work.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Good to hear that everyone is for the most part OK!
Hope your wrist/hand (or whatever it is you're wearing a cast/brace for) heals up well. I'm probably reading into this wrong but I say get the truck going again with whatever formulation of seat belts will work and that YOU think is OK……Granted I have a '67 land rover that I added seat belts to ('cause it didn't have any) and strapped my kids car seats into…My kids are 16 and 18 now so I guess I have been lucky so far….I have a box of used 62 seatbelt parts in the garage to "cobble" into my '85 60 'cause for me it will be an improvement….But if I were as concerned as you sound? I'd be looking at a "modern" rig with airbags and sensors and electronic do this and do that gizmos…..THAT is what someone "in the industry" will tell you.

your seat belts were "used" before your crash but they were OK until your crash…so whats wrong with "used" belts that haven't been in a crash?

Are you going to replace the other seat belts on your truck that weren't damaged/broken in the crash?

I'm not trying to be a dick but I think you might be over thinking this a wee bit…..Heal well and get back at it!

What makes the ones in there o.k. is that they have been in the vehicle the whole time. Junkyard belts may have been sitting in a vehicle with no windows in it for 26 years. And yes, if I can find a source for belts I will be replacing all of the belts in the truck. That is actually why I knew of the availability issue because I was looking at replacing all of them before the accident simply because they are 26 years old. Ya' I really am like that. I've done it on my beetles in the past (past as in I'd be afraid to drive around in one with my kids, so haven't owned one since) Two accidents in 14 months with other person at fault and cell phones being involved makes one a bit overzellous.

The reason I don't have a more modern truck with all those safety features is the air bags. I sold my 2006 Taco Double Cab because I was nervous about the airbag deploying when I let my son drive off-road. It's certainly a pick your poison deal. This truck was as old on safety technology I personally was willing to go. Everyone has their own limit for risk. This is my personal limit at this time. If I can sort the seatbelt issue out and truck gets repaired, I'll be adding a more modern daily driver to the stable in 6 months - that was the plan before this happened anyway. If I can't sort out a bolt in solution, I will buy something sooner and solve the problem with a cage and 5 point restraints and it will become annoff road only toy, or I'll just sell it and move on.

Believe me I understand your points, weither you're trying to be a dick or not is irrelevant.

Actually though, all your points are irrelevant too though, at least to the question at hand. All my responses to you are irrelevant as well.

The question is - still is - If the parts are not available to fix the safety equipment in the vehicle - bolt into place - no cutting chopping or other mutilation of the vehicle or belts - do they have to total the vehicle.

I'm actually surprised that manufacturers aren't required to keep a supply of safety parts for longer. Think about a '98 cruiser and not being able to replace airbags after an accident. Since it's illeagle to diable them, what do you do? But that't not important today - today it's just does anyone with actual insurance industry knowledge know the answer to my question.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Curious what part of the seat belt broke? Any pics?

Hummm... ya' in the first post. Here's what it's supposed to look like

 

[Walking Eagle]

You simply take your hardware (buckles, retractors etc) and have them reconditioned and new webbing fitted. Something we should probably all do with belts of the age that ours are

In this case it's the buckle that broke. Who do you use to recondition and reweb? I've requested information on doing it from several places, and got one response saying they only do modern stuff, rechargimg the pre-tensioniers, the others just didn't respond at all. And yes, probably something we all should consider. Mine functioned thankfully.

 

[lcgeek]

Thanks! Doh, sorry I missed it in post #1.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

I followed the path that Spike took to mount mine.

New Seat Belts for my 84


J

 

[Walking Eagle]

Oh, and stayallert - the thought has crossed my mind of if I was in a Subaru with four wheel disks and abs would I have been able to stop in time and avoid the accident all together or how much less impact would it have been. Interesting tid bit - stock FJ62 brakes are powerful enough to lock up 33's at 50mph.

Other thoughts that have crossed my mind - even with a mild lift, had I hit her in the door she would have been in rough shape because of the height difference. Had I been in my LX450 with 5" lift and 37's the first thing to contact likely would have been my tire which would have spun me at best, possibly rolled me over, or at worst launched me. I think it's natural to wonder how it could have been different in different vehicles.

 

[brian]

yeah the part that broke is just plastic and plays no part what so ever in the actual safety aspect of the catch. the missing part is simply there to provide an extra loop for the web to pass through. when the seat belt is not in use and full retracted the male portion of the catch will stay in a semi adjusted position on the web. the part of the catch that the web passes through that is actually part of the restraint system, is steel clad in the plastic.
in all reality all the seat belts that are in that cruiser, that were in use at the time of the accident should be replaced.

 

[stayalert]

Oh, and stayallert - the thought has crossed my mind of if I was in a Subaru with four wheel disks and abs would I have been able to stop in time and avoid the accident all together or how much less impact would it have been. Interesting tid bit - stock FJ62 brakes are powerful enough to lock up 33's at 50mph.

Other thoughts that have crossed my mind - even with a mild lift, had I hit her in the door she would have been in rough shape because of the height difference. Had I been in my LX450 with 5" lift and 37's the first thing to contact likely would have been my tire which would have spun me at best, possibly rolled me over, or at worst launched me. I think it's natural to wonder how it could have been different in different vehicles.

For sure. Hard telling not knowing, but with a lifted LX450 on 37's under full braking (lots of force keeping the front wheels down?) might just mash into that sedan……but at something shy 50MPH? who knows??? I was thinking the same thing that brian pointed out with regard to the broken buckle piece. Make sure your fams "soreness" isn't result of/masking injury...

 

[doug720]

I have a relative who works for one of the Japanese auto companies. According to him, all safety equipment has an engineered life expectancy of 20 - 25 years. This includes air bags and seat belts. Per his companies rules, they dispose of ALL safety related spare parts in their stock when they reach the end of the engineered parts life...period!

He also said, they will not make replacement parts, in fact, most times, that can not make replacement parts due to liability of manufacturing a safety part which has been superseded by known better designs.

As for used parts, I work for insurance companies, and they are risk adverse to say the least. I would be very surprised if an insurance company would have anything to do with installing a 20+ year old used safety part such as a seat belt or airbag, parts with unknown storage and previous accident history in a vehicle. Talk about risk and liability!!!!!

As vehicles age, the safety systems are going to reach a point where they are no longer safe and new replacement parts will not and are not available. There is talk about this now in the insurance industry as a result of the Takata air bag problems.

If a vehicle has a known safety defect...or a aged out safety part, and a new replacement part is not available, will an insurance company insure that vehicle due to possible risk to the driver and passengers if an accident occurs? More risk and liability could/would mean they decline to cover or higher premiums.

Technology is a double edged sword. No one anticipated that all these "old" vehicles would still be on the road 25 - 40 years after these safety systems were introduced, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

Don't look to the vehicle manufacturers to help - why should they, they sell new cars, why take on the costs and liability?

Don't look for any help from the insurance companies, new cars are safer and they pay fewer and lower bodily injury claims in new cars vs old ones. Plus smart Spy programs like Progressives and Allstates new device - Now Your Insurance Company Wants To Spy On You In Your Car

Government... Ya right. They want all the old s*** off the roads. More sales tax and higher registration fee's, less smog and smart cars.

Sorry for the detour and I hope you sort this out and jet your 62 back on the road safely, but this is the future IMHO.

AS mentioned earlier - this is likely your only option to replace the seat belts - Buy Replacement Seatbelts, Seat Belts, Retractable Seat Belts, and Seatbelt Extenders @ SeatBeltsPlus.co

 

[dbleon]

Have it totaled...buy it back...use the money for a full internal cage with 5 point harnesses. Solves many safety problems