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Do you have sand paper? Scotch-Brite pad?
Wheel Bearing; FSM Torque to Light or just Right.
- Thread starter 2001LC
- Start date
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I sure do, just want sure if it wasn’t too abrasive to use. Thanks.
The pads of your finger tips are very sensitive to surface imperfections. Can you feel any imperfections on the bearing surface around those marks? If not they’re probably good to go as-is.
- Thread starter
- #104
Most any abrasive works, as long as not to course a grit. Doing nothing is fine also, if you can't feel.
In the middle of changing bearings and came across this thread. Hopefully I can get the preload right first time.
There was no play but I noticed marks on knuckle on PS. I tried the scale (digital luggage scale) and it seemed low like 6lbs. Unfortunately did not try DS before taking all apart.
I will post some pics when I get home.
Edit: attaching pics of knuckles. There are some scratches which I can’t understand how since bearings don’t sit there.
There was no play but I noticed marks on knuckle on PS. I tried the scale (digital luggage scale) and it seemed low like 6lbs. Unfortunately did not try DS before taking all apart.
I will post some pics when I get home.
Edit: attaching pics of knuckles. There are some scratches which I can’t understand how since bearings don’t sit there.
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- Thread starter
- #106
When wheel bearings get loose, which all do with every mile driven more and more, they chatter (vibrate). This will cause marks like you're seeing on spindle.
This. I try to get as close to the tight end of the spec as I can with this in mind. Last time I did mine, I set them at 13-14 lbs.
I will check after driving some. Will also check the temperature
Thanks everyone for your suggestions and would like to provide an update.
1. Decided to changes all 4 bearings and races. That includes both washers with bearings.
2. Changes both flanges and all nuts and washers that go with it
3. Greased needle bearing using 1” pvc cap, zerk and 2x4.
Pulling axle back to put the new c clip was a challenge. Made the tool like others but still did not pull all the way in my opinion. Was able to put 2.4 mm which is next size from original. Here is the pic of the first version which bent. I will get a pic of second version.
4. Got rotors turned but that was a challenge as shops could get it right on the machine.
5. Learned the pistons in the caliper are different sizes which makes a difference when you put the pads with all anti rattle stuff
It drives and brakes great. Still need to do the rear.
However the clunking is still there. Need to do more troubleshooting. Perhaps CV axles needs to changed eventually. LC has 185k.
1. Decided to changes all 4 bearings and races. That includes both washers with bearings.
2. Changes both flanges and all nuts and washers that go with it
3. Greased needle bearing using 1” pvc cap, zerk and 2x4.
Pulling axle back to put the new c clip was a challenge. Made the tool like others but still did not pull all the way in my opinion. Was able to put 2.4 mm which is next size from original. Here is the pic of the first version which bent. I will get a pic of second version.
4. Got rotors turned but that was a challenge as shops could get it right on the machine.
5. Learned the pistons in the caliper are different sizes which makes a difference when you put the pads with all anti rattle stuff
It drives and brakes great. Still need to do the rear.
However the clunking is still there. Need to do more troubleshooting. Perhaps CV axles needs to changed eventually. LC has 185k.
Thanks for the all the great info in this thread! As prep for an upcoming front end overhaul, I pulled the front driver side hub so I could check condition of the spindle.
I bought this truck a couple thousand miles ago and it's now at 202k miles. Was getting vibration when braking and had some play on the front wheels when I jacked it off the ground. Also the notorious clunking when driving (more stop and go which I feel is probably driveshaft lube issue). Based on prior owner records I feel that loose bearing has been a recurring issue for some time (just like many other cruisers out there).
Upon disassembly, I found:
1. Snap ring in good condition. Possibly 1 size too small but splines and flange in decent condition.
2. Flange had been hammered on in the past so the mounting face was deformed - probably the reason someone gooped sealant all over it....that made it fun getting the cone washers off.
3. Grease seemed a bit dry and inadequate amount in the recess between the bearings.
4. Spline has some minor grooving (can just barely feel the grooves as I run my nail across it)
I cleaned up the outer bearing and test fit it on the spline and the inner race fit well - could not detect any play.
With that in mind - here's where I'm at. I have all new OEM replacement parts for everything (including new CV axles, bushings for control arms, new rotors/pads) to rebuild the front end minus the hub and steering knuckle.
So finally my question - What's the consensus on spindle wear? Pic is included. No discoloration from heat, but some minor grooving. I really don't want to drop $1200 for new spindles so I'm inclined to crosshatch the ones I have and run them. But I was hoping for a little feedback. Please advise!!
Going to do the overhaul in the next few weeks so I slapped in some new grease, buttoned everything back up and it drives SO much better. Need to check the passenger side as well but drives and brakes very smooth now and after 30 min drive, no discernable heat difference between DS and PS hubs.
Pre-load set to 13 with the fish scale which required 66 ft/lbs on well used bearings.
Spindle w/ history of loose bearings at 202k miles.
Someone went caveman on the flange and hid the carnage with sealant....
Thanks!
I bought this truck a couple thousand miles ago and it's now at 202k miles. Was getting vibration when braking and had some play on the front wheels when I jacked it off the ground. Also the notorious clunking when driving (more stop and go which I feel is probably driveshaft lube issue). Based on prior owner records I feel that loose bearing has been a recurring issue for some time (just like many other cruisers out there).
Upon disassembly, I found:
1. Snap ring in good condition. Possibly 1 size too small but splines and flange in decent condition.
2. Flange had been hammered on in the past so the mounting face was deformed - probably the reason someone gooped sealant all over it....that made it fun getting the cone washers off.
3. Grease seemed a bit dry and inadequate amount in the recess between the bearings.
4. Spline has some minor grooving (can just barely feel the grooves as I run my nail across it)
I cleaned up the outer bearing and test fit it on the spline and the inner race fit well - could not detect any play.
With that in mind - here's where I'm at. I have all new OEM replacement parts for everything (including new CV axles, bushings for control arms, new rotors/pads) to rebuild the front end minus the hub and steering knuckle.
So finally my question - What's the consensus on spindle wear? Pic is included. No discoloration from heat, but some minor grooving. I really don't want to drop $1200 for new spindles so I'm inclined to crosshatch the ones I have and run them. But I was hoping for a little feedback. Please advise!!
Going to do the overhaul in the next few weeks so I slapped in some new grease, buttoned everything back up and it drives SO much better. Need to check the passenger side as well but drives and brakes very smooth now and after 30 min drive, no discernable heat difference between DS and PS hubs.
Pre-load set to 13 with the fish scale which required 66 ft/lbs on well used bearings.
Spindle w/ history of loose bearings at 202k miles.
Someone went caveman on the flange and hid the carnage with sealant....
Thanks!
I think it will be just fine.
- Thread starter
- #112
It is fun, isn't! When they glue on the hub flange..
I'd use that spindle! I'd lightly clean-up with emery cloth. Carefully to not reducing size and keeping round, just knocking off burs.. Then if no issues while driving (excess heat, vibration, rotational sounds, etc.), inspect again at next 30K miles service.
BTW: I replace frt diff side tube seals, with all FDS replacements.
I'd use that spindle! I'd lightly clean-up with emery cloth. Carefully to not reducing size and keeping round, just knocking off burs.. Then if no issues while driving (excess heat, vibration, rotational sounds, etc.), inspect again at next 30K miles service.
BTW: I replace frt diff side tube seals, with all FDS replacements.
Thanks - Appreciate the advice!
Thanks to this forum and reading about other folks dealing with that flange glue....it could have been a lot worse. I was prepared with my kroil, brass punch, vise grips, BFH and all the swearing I could muster.It is fun, isn't! When they glue on the hub flange..
I'd use that spindle! I'd lightly clean-up with emery cloth. Carefully to not reducing size and keeping round, just knocking off burs.. Then if no issues while driving (excess heat, vibration, rotational sounds, etc.), inspect again at next 30K miles service.
BTW: I replace frt diff side tube seals, with all FDS replacements.
I hear you on the seals, I have all new seals, gaskets, bearings, bushings in hand. My garage looks like a parts shop. Big thanks for all your informational posts on here @2001LC. And the videos are fantastic too.
- Thread starter
- #116
As stated reuse if not damaged. But there is a bit more to it!
First; According to Toyota.
Hub flange nuts, are not reusable.
That said: We reuse the nuts, almost always. We add a medium (blue) thread sealer, when reusing. New come with sealant applied to threads.
But before reusing, inspect for thread wear (looseness). With repeated reuse, the nuts' threads stretch and wear. These will have a lot of wiggle, when threaded on. They should have a snug fit. Those with wiggle, are best replaced. Stud must also be inspected as well.
Cone washer:
I'm one of the very few that recommends replacing if worn/scored. Cone washer are a disposable wear part. I keep a bag around, just as I do; lock washer, snap rings and grease caps. etc. Cone washer, are to center the hub flange on wheel hub. BUT IMHO are multi purposes. For one, they take up drive line shock. The cone washer flexes, by means of the gap/slit. This is evident by the wear/score marks on them. As the washer wears, the gap closes. Thus reducing ability to flex. The wear is almost always uneven (greater to one side), which then effects centering also. The wear also creates a kind of ridge/stop, also effecting flex.
I always replace cone washer, when installing a new hub flange or anytime I see then scored.
Additional not reusable:
Seal & gasket.
Claw washer if keep/key damaged, ID enlarged and or too deeply score. (Face best side in., when reusing)
Lock washer.
Snap ring. We never reuse, even if proper thickness.
Grease cap. Best never reused. One can inspect seal points, and is perfect reuse in a pinch. But it is best to replace ASAP, certainly before water crossings.
Bearings & race (if race removed or any damage). Keep bearings with their own race, do not mix sides.
Damaged: Snap ring, from reusing and not properly setting gap. Cone washers scored.
Worn ID & keep of claw washer, allowed it to spin on threads of spindle. I had to cut away remaining keep, to remove. Or risk damaging spindle threads
Above pic, also notice grease inside spindle is brown. This was from water contamination, due to, not replacing grease cap.
We've several water entry points.
Bad grease cap seal.
Bad seal at hub flange to wheel hub. This is due to uneven surface of hub flange and or wheel hub matting surfaces and or a bad gasket. The become uneven, from being pounded off. We never pound on hub flange or wheel hub, if reusing.
Rear wheel hub seal bad. This can be from loose wheel bearings resulting in wheel hub wobble, damaging seal or reusing a bad seal.
First; According to Toyota.
Hub flange nuts, are not reusable.
That said: We reuse the nuts, almost always. We add a medium (blue) thread sealer, when reusing. New come with sealant applied to threads.
But before reusing, inspect for thread wear (looseness). With repeated reuse, the nuts' threads stretch and wear. These will have a lot of wiggle, when threaded on. They should have a snug fit. Those with wiggle, are best replaced. Stud must also be inspected as well.
Cone washer:
I'm one of the very few that recommends replacing if worn/scored. Cone washer are a disposable wear part. I keep a bag around, just as I do; lock washer, snap rings and grease caps. etc. Cone washer, are to center the hub flange on wheel hub. BUT IMHO are multi purposes. For one, they take up drive line shock. The cone washer flexes, by means of the gap/slit. This is evident by the wear/score marks on them. As the washer wears, the gap closes. Thus reducing ability to flex. The wear is almost always uneven (greater to one side), which then effects centering also. The wear also creates a kind of ridge/stop, also effecting flex.
I always replace cone washer, when installing a new hub flange or anytime I see then scored.
Additional not reusable:
Seal & gasket.
Claw washer if keep/key damaged, ID enlarged and or too deeply score. (Face best side in., when reusing)
Lock washer.
Snap ring. We never reuse, even if proper thickness.
Grease cap. Best never reused. One can inspect seal points, and is perfect reuse in a pinch. But it is best to replace ASAP, certainly before water crossings.
Bearings & race (if race removed or any damage). Keep bearings with their own race, do not mix sides.
Damaged: Snap ring, from reusing and not properly setting gap. Cone washers scored.
Worn ID & keep of claw washer, allowed it to spin on threads of spindle. I had to cut away remaining keep, to remove. Or risk damaging spindle threads
Above pic, also notice grease inside spindle is brown. This was from water contamination, due to, not replacing grease cap.
We've several water entry points.
Bad grease cap seal.
Bad seal at hub flange to wheel hub. This is due to uneven surface of hub flange and or wheel hub matting surfaces and or a bad gasket. The become uneven, from being pounded off. We never pound on hub flange or wheel hub, if reusing.
Rear wheel hub seal bad. This can be from loose wheel bearings resulting in wheel hub wobble, damaging seal or reusing a bad seal.
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- Thread starter
- #117
When I restore wheel hubs. Flattening the surface hub flange mates to, is a big part of the restoration. As is flattening where hub wheel mates to wheel. Both can be done without removing studs. But sometimes I do remove studs. When I do, I seal the studs in. I use a lite torque of ~13ftlbf. If Hub flange is damaged, i just replace.
We want all matting surfaces flat.
We want all matting surfaces flat.
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If anyone is looking for the part number for the cone washers .... 42323-60030. For some reason was difficult to find for me. But then again that is not really saying much. For the 100 series 1998 to 2002 it seems Dr. Yota has a different part number 42323-60010 but I am not sure what the difference would be.
As always @2001LC has gone far and above. Your Youtube videos are life-saving.
As always @2001LC has gone far and above. Your Youtube videos are life-saving.
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@2001LC I’ve been reading all your wheel bearing threads after replacing mine with new Koyos, Mobil 1 grease, new thrust and lock washer. Adjusting nut torque was set around 50ft•lbs to achieve 12lb breakaway.
It seems like the majority of responders are needing a FOOT pound torque as opposed to an INCH pound. I am beginning to wonder if the FSM has a typo. Thoughts?
It seems like the majority of responders are needing a FOOT pound torque as opposed to an INCH pound. I am beginning to wonder if the FSM has a typo. Thoughts?
- Thread starter
- #120
No typo.The IN.lbf is only a starting point. The goal is breakaway preload. When read "in that light", it becomes apparent, FSM means what it says!
A 50ft-lbf to achieve 12lb breakaway. Indicates new bearings, good grease, at ~68F.