Wheel Bearing; FSM Torque to Light or just Right. (2 Viewers)

[2001LC]

Tip: Three most important or overlooked procedures when doing wheel bearing.

1. Set preload to 9.5 to 15 lbf on fish scale. Use care on direction of travel and angle of scale of/to wheel hub.
2. Check snap ring gap and use new snap ring of proper thickness to achieve gap. <0.008in (0,2mm)
3. Grease axle needle bearing & bushing. Slee - Spindle Grease Tool

Anyone have a good handle on what preload (Torque and hub starting breakaway) works best with our 100 Series front wheel bearings:

We go with a FSM starting breakaway spec of 9.5 to 15 lbf to turn the wheel hub with a spring scale (fish scale)?
Edited on 9-29-15 FSM preload breakaway is the goal, but difficult to reach. Care must be taken to turn wheel in direction of travel only, and use a perfect 90 degree angle off top lug with fish scale.

We only start with FSM torque spec on the adjusting nut (inner nut) of 38 to 57 INCH –lbf?
Edited on 9-29-15 Torque is not the goal, breakaway preload is.

Edited 9-28-15 I'm now setting Breakaway Preload with spring scale (fish scale) close to high FSM recommended max of 15lb, to see how it works over next 30K miles. (25K miles on built rigs)

Edited 9-29-15 Repacked at 160k miles total on bearings (30K miles between service), found claw washers look better (less scoring from chatter), with the last higher torque of 12 ft-lbf. Now trying even higher torque on adjusting nut at 23ft-lbf, to see if I get further improvement or burn up bearings. This high torque is risky, but I attained ~13 to 15 lbf of pull on fish scale (breakaway preload (BWP)) at this torque. Edited 3/6/23 I've found cleaning the same, using same grease and temperature of grease 60f to 90F. BWP at 12 to 15LB of pull, I end up with ~45ft-lbf torque on new bearings and as high as 80ft-lbf on very good broken-in bearings. One thing can really change BWP, is temperature. To cold a we get a false BWP reading.

September 2010 at ~130,000 miles, I repacked my front wheel bearings with Amsoil GHD NLGI #2 w/moly (GHD & Moly poor choice, GDH is not a high speed & Moly builds heat) I have gone back to Mobil One wheel bearing grease. FOR the Axle bushing & needle bearings (front drive shaft thrust bushing) I used Amsoil GHD NLGI #1 wheel bearing grease w/moly. Edit: I just use Mobil 1 wheel bearing grease, on all these days.

(12/11/16 The key is to get breakaway preload of 9.5 to 15ft-lbf on fish scale. Next paragraph is earlier wheel bearing service as I started increasing preload & torque.)
Torque the inner nut to 43 ft-lb to settle bearings, then loosened and torque to 12 ft-lbs. This gave me a preload of ~2 lbs 6 oz starting breakaway pull on the hubs as read using a fish scale. A final starting breakaway of ~6 to 7 lbsfwas reached after the lock washer and lock outer nut was installed and torque to 47 ft lbs. See post #21. Which is to low a BWP. Goal is 12.5 BWP.

Previously I set the starting breakaway pull very light, and slightly heavy on the torque compared to the FSM starting point recommendations. After inspection of the condition from the last repack i did 30,000 miles ago (at 100k miles), at which time I set the torque to 84 INCH-lbf (~7 ft-lbs). I now have found during inspection, parts damaged (grooving/scoring) to claw washers and axle spindle at outer and inner bearing contact points. After speaking with a Lexus mechanic and reading threads in the 80 & 100 series on this issue; I became concerned this may be do to vibration from being to loose. Which would suggest the FSM is way to low on its torque spec. Additional the starting breakaway can not be reached even if I torqued the adjusting nut up to 12 times ( to ~35 ft-lbs) the FSM recommend spec. Which in a test at 35 ft-lbs gave me a ~6 to 7 lbs starting breakaway after finial torque of lock nut to 47 ft-lbs (outer nut) Edited 10-14-15 found reading on spring scale is very depended on turning wheel at least one full turn (without backing off at all) then pulling with spring scale at perfect 90 angle in same direction (direction of travel). Have now achieved breakaway preload of ~13 -15lbf at 23ft-lbf of torque to adjusting nut.

Edited 10-28-10
A Toyota shop Foreman agrees that the FSM is only starting point. After some research and digging, we came up with the 1999 and older 4 Runner FSM had the most realist torque (18 ft-lb) and starting breakaway preload (6.4 to 10 with spring scale). These 4 Runner wheel bearings are smaller and the vehicle is lighter but very similar to the 80 and 100 series.

Edited 10-1-15
Chassis Lubrication
Land Cruiser 2001 FSM, Owner’s manual and Scheduled maintenance books:

Wheel bearing:

Lithium base wheel bearing grease NGLI #2……….…..............Owner’s manual page 268

MP wheel bearing grease………………………………….............…......FSM V2 SA-13

Wheel bearing grease……………………………………….……................Scheduled maintenance guide page 23.

Drive shaft Thrust bushing & Bearing:

Synthetic oil & lithium soap base chassis grease……..............Owner’s manual page 268 (Thrust bushing)

Synthetic oil & lithium soap base chassis grease NGLI #1…….FSM V2 SA-22 & 23 (bearing & bushing)

Molybdenum-disulfide lithium-base chassis grease….............Scheduled maintenance guide page 23 (drive shaft bearing)

Propeller Shaft and Slide yokes:

Lithium base wheel bearing grease NGLI #2…………...........….Owner’s manual page 268

MP………………………………………………………………………….................FSM V2 PR-6,7 & 9

Lithium base chassis grease……………………………………..............Scheduled maintenance guide page 22.

 

[wildsmith]

I've always found the FSM spec seems ok for a standard truck but not enough preload for oversized tyres. I make sure the inner nut and bearing mating surface are free of grease and then torque the inner nut and I'm currently using 35ft-lbs. Greased that figure would be way to high. I don't bother with the fish scales.

 

[2001LC]

I've always found the FSM spec seems ok for a standard truck but not enough Preload for oversized tyres. I make sure the inner nut and bearing mating surface are free of grease and then torque the inner nut and I'm currently using 35ft-lbs. Greased that figure would be way to high. I don't bother with the fish scales.

Thank you for stopping by and for your input.

My 2001 LC is all stock with 275/70 R16 tires. What I've found, when I follow the FSM preload torque spec; I'm not getting nowhere near the FSM starting breakaway spec. My current thinking, which is 180 degrees from what I had been thinking, is that the FSM torque is to loose and causing damage to the claw washer and spindle. But I would need to use a torque number closer to 37 ft-lbs or higher to get the FSM preload breakaway (at starting).

Let me ask; have you or anybody inspected and seen heat discoloring on the bearings, races or steering knuckle spindle or WEAR on the claw washer or on the back of the spindle at the bearing contact points, either:

On standard truck set at FSM torque spec?

OR

On one 's torque to a higher spec like 35ft-lbs or so?

Note: I don't add any grease to the claw washer or adjusting nut (inner lock nut) nor do I wipe any grease off the newly packed bearings, nor should this make a difference, because, when I follow FSM and "torque adjusting nut to 43 ft-lbs then back off to settle down the bearing" this would press any excess grease out of the contact points.

 

[SHAGGY101]

After I "set the bearing" I torque it to ~12 ft lbs. I check the pressure on the claw washer by moving it around with a screw driver. I then base the torque off of how easy it is to move the washer. I have found that on my rig that ~12 ft lbs seems right. I then do the outer nut to FSM specs and everything seems to work fine.

Hope this might help.

Also, here is a helpful link:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/35431-front-bearing-replacement.html

 

[2001LC]

After I "set the bearing" I torque it to ~12 ft lbs. I check the pressure on the claw washer by moving it around with a screw driver. I then base the torque off of how easy it is to move the washer. I have found that on my rig that ~12 ft lbs seems right. I then do the outer nut to FSM specs and everything seems to work fine.

Hope this might help.

Also, here is a helpful link:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/35431-front-bearing-replacement.html

Thanks it helps and I've read all the threads i could find on this issue.

So your using about double the FSM torque spec. Have you any mental or otherwise notes on the condition of the components like claw washer and spindle before and/or after using this method?

 

[wildsmith]

I find wear on the thrust washer is a sign of not enough preload and if you don't deal with it quickly then the spindle gets damaged as well. I have also heard of the inner locking tag breaking off the star washer in bad cases, allowing the nuts to spin off.

At 35ft-lbs (dry) I don't get any problems with worn thrust washers, spindles or bearings when I know from experience over the last nearly 10 years that anything less and my 36" Simex will eat the bearings very quickly. I clean grease off the spindle and bearing thrust surface to discourage it from turning. I clean the grease off the thrust washer and inner nut for a more reliable repeat torque value.

If you haven't already, search the 80 forum, it's the same set up and there have been threads about what torque / process to use.

 

[2001LC]

I find wear on the thrust washer is a sign of not enough preload and if you don't deal with it quickly then the spindle gets damaged as well. I have also heard of the inner locking tag breaking off the star washer in bad cases, allowing the nuts to spin off.

At 35ft-lbs (dry) I don't get any problems with worn thrust washers, spindles or bearings when I know from experience over the last nearly 10 years that anything less and my 36" Simex will eat the bearings very quickly. I clean grease off the spindle and bearing thrust surface to discourage it from turning. I clean the grease off the thrust washer and inner nut for a more reliable repeat torque value.

If you haven't already, search the 80 forum, it's the same set up and there have been threads about what torque / process to use.

Thanks wildsmith, that is the conclusions I've come too, loose is more damaging then tight.

What do you mean by: "36" Simex?

What torque do you recommend I use on the adjusting nut in my stock 2001 100-series daily driver?

I'll look into the 80-series thread on this issue.

So far it looks like FSM torque spec is way to low.

 

[wildsmith]

I think from the manufacturers point of view, a too loose bearing will make a bit of noise and a little bit of heat but it will keep working in that state for a long time before anything drops off. A too tight bearing makes a lot of heat and it doesn't take all that many miles before things drop off!

36" Simex is a reference to the 36x12.5x16 off road tyres I run which have big voids so as well as all the extra leverage and weight of a large tyre the tread pattern causes a constant hammering of the bearings, like driving over a cattle grid. FSM spec is a joke for those.

What torque to use will depend on the method you use. ISTR 10ft-lbs being the greased figure used in the 80 series thread I'm thinking of.

 

[2001LC]

I think from the manufacturers point of view, a too loose bearing will make a bit of noise and a little bit of heat but it will keep working in that state for a long time before anything drops off. A too tight bearing makes a lot of heat and it doesn't take all that many miles before things drop off!

36" Simex is a reference to the 36x12.5x16 off road tyres I run which have big voids so as well as all the extra leverage and weight of a large tyre the tread pattern causes a constant hammering of the bearings, like driving over a cattle grid. FSM spec is a joke for those.

What torque to use will depend on the method you use. ISTR 10ft-lbs being the greased figure used in the 80 series thread I'm thinking of.

Thank you for taking the time to post.

If your 35 ft lb did well I'll not go over that, at least not by much. I'll start around 10 ft lb and torque it tighter, checking with fish scale to see what it takes to get the 9.5 to 15 lb starting breakaway preload.

10 to 20 ft lb torque seem to be the range in the 80 series thread, will see what it takes for my 100 series to get the FSM of 9.5 to 15 lb preload after cleaning, emery cloth and Amsoil GHD w/moly #2.

 

[2001LC]

Hi wildsmith, I've gone dry (grease) on the spindle, bearing, claw washer and nuts as I understand you did. Then set the adjusting nut (inner) at 35 ft-lbs torque which gave 4 to 5 lb of starting breakaway preload on a fish scale. I tried various torques starting at 10 ft-lbs up to 50 ft-lbs and the highest breakaway I got was 6 to 7 lb. So i decide to go with the 35 ft-lbs as you do, even though I'm stock, since it's not damaging your set-up I figure it shouldn't damage my stock 100 LC.

What is the best way for me to quickly determine if I've set them to tight?

 

[wildsmith]

I feel the hub temperatures after bearing work - a too tight bearing makes lots of heat. If you only adjusted one side then comparing temps side to side is easy. If you did both then you have to allow for the brakes warming things up if you've been using them. Not very scientific but it seems to work.

 

[SHAGGY101]

Thanks it helps and I've read all the threads i could find on this issue.

So your using about double the FSM torque spec. Have you any mental or otherwise notes on the condition of the components like claw washer and spindle before and/or after using this method?

I have never used the fish scale method. A toyota mechanic, from Boulder, CO, showed me how to do it (he specializes in 80 series everything).

 

[2001LC]

I feel the hub temperatures after bearing work - a too tight bearing makes lots of heat. If you only adjusted one side then comparing temps side to side is easy. If you did both then you have to allow for the brakes warming things up if you've been using them. Not very scientific but it seems to work.

I assembled the left side at 35 ft-lbs torque dry (no grease on front and rear beaing contact points) and the right at 65 INCH-lbf wet. I then drove with hub caps off: 3 miles at 40 MPH, 5 miles at 60 to 80 MPH on HWY then 3 miles at 40 MPH to my garage. I was able to put my hand on both hub's (on the dust cap, flange nuts and flange) as they were only slightly warm (outside air temp 59 F with ~10% humidity). The left may have been slightly warmer, but if so, by no more than 2 or 3 F. Could not touch the drum of the rotors behind the wheels, as they were to hot form breaking. Slight pull to left "very slight" may or may not have to do with the torque of the left wheel bearing adjustment nuts.

Is the flange the proper place to check temp for difference?

Would any difference between left and right be to much?

Note: After tightening lock nut (outer nut) starting breakaway increased from 4 lb to a total of 6 lb 7 oz.
The fish scale is a useless measurement for following FSM assemble instuction as is the FSM torque spec, but it does help to gauge the effects of different torques. Trier pressure front 31, Rear 33 PSI.

I have never used the fish scale method. A toyota mechanic, from Boulder, CO, showed me how to do it (he specializes in 80 series everything).

Thanks Shaggy, I set my Adjusting nuts torque at ~7 ft-lbs which gave me ~2 lb on the fish scale, then torque the lock nut to 47 ft-lbs, and retested with fish scale and got ~3 to 5 lbs starting breakaway Preload. This was 30,000 miles ago. I have now found the claw washer and back of spindle warn at the bearing contact points. A 50 year old Lexus mechanic I know, believes, this is do to vibration from bearings being too loose and stated to me that FSM printed torque on Japanese cars tend to be stated to light in his experience.

Let me ask you; on your subsequent front bearing jobs using your method ~12 ft-lbs, did you notice much if any ware on claw washer and spindle at the inner and outer bearing contact points?
and
How many miles in-between wheel repack jobs?

 

[2001LC]

Observation at different torque settings:

Using an IR thermometer I check the wheel bearing temps, at each front wheel hub flange, under various driving conditions. The left side adjusting nut was torque to 35 ft-lbs and was always 2 to 7 % hotter than the right side which was torque to 65 Inch -lbf.

The actual temperatures, of the flange, ranged from ~75 to 110 F (outside ambient air temps 55 to 65 F). The highest temp recorded with the greatest difference between sides, being when, driven 40 miles at HWY speeds ending with 5 miles of winding HWY & mountain roads. The ambient air temp was ~55 F.

The left side running slightly hotter than the right with a slight pull to left is an indication that it is tighter than optimum for stock wheel and tire comb performance, and will probably reduce MPG do to a slight drag. But as noted, by wildsmith's experience, does not damage the bearings.

I believe from the condition of the claw washer and spindle after the previous 30,000 miles that a setting of 84 INCH -lbf (7 ft-lbs) torque is a little to loose, which may cause it to run slightly hotter than and optimum torque (do to vibration). This torque setting will not cause it to overheat or fail in the short run, but will most likely cause damage to internal parts over the long run.

Conclusion:

The FSM spec adj nut preload torque and wheel hub starting breakaway as measured by a spring scale, at least when dealing with cleaned and well greased used bearing set-up, do not work, together or separately to get the proper preload.

The ideal set-up with stock tiers & wheels would be to tighten just enough so that the claw washer keeps enough pressure on the inner bearing race, to stop it from spinning or vibrating between the inner and outer contact points, under normal operation.

Shaggy101's method of checking the claw washer makes a great deal of sense. I'm going to use it in an attempt to find that point just before the torque on the adjustment nut stops the claw washer from moving. Then count on the extra tightening that happens when the lock washer and lock nut (outside nut) are installed to a torque of 47 ft-lbs, too, stop the claw washer from moving which will hopefully be the optimum setting.

Thanks to all, any additional comments are welcome.

 

[wildsmith]

At 35ft-lbs my hubs are barely warmer than the ambient temperature using my hand as the thermometer If those are new bearings you're using then I'd expect a bit of extra heat initially as I believe there's some fine wearing of the surfaces has to happen to brake them in. I wouldn't expect pull though. Have you tried swapping sides with the 35ft-lbs to eliminate other issues? I'm only mentioning that because you seem to be being very thorough with your investigation

 

[2001LC]

At 35ft-lbs my hubs are barely warmer than the ambient temperature using my hand as the thermometer If those are new bearings you're using then I'd expect a bit of extra heat initially as I believe there's some fine wearing of the surfaces has to happen to brake them in. I wouldn't expect pull though. Have you tried swapping sides with the 35ft-lbs to eliminate other issues? I'm only mentioning that because you seem to be being very thorough with your investigation

Thanks wildsmith, I too used the hand test, and really 110 F only feels warm to me. The IR gun help to determine the difference which wasn't much. The idea of swapping torque to 35 ft-lbs on other side is a good one, but I don't want to pull off again other than final setting (torque) if I can help it. The pull is very slight if at all, it did pull a little to the right before bearing repack. They are well settled bearings, with 130,000 miles on them.

Hopefully I'll come up with a comfortable torque for me and not have issues next repack at 30K from now.

 

[2001LC]

wildsmith, your idea of switching 35 ft-lbs torque, to the other side, is such a good one. It's got me wrestling with not taking the extra time and a desirer to know.

Interestingly; I've keep the IR temp gun in my Cruiser, testing after each drive, and the last two tests I'm finding almost no difference in temp. These were 15 miles of combined HWY & City driving with an ambient air temps of 47 F & raining to 69 F & sunny. With a low of 78 F and a high of 108 F readings from the wheel flanges.

Could it be that the 35 ft-lbs left side is settling in after about 180 miles. After all the bearings had been run at a much looser torque for 130,000 miles, what do you think?

 

[wildsmith]

It could be that the bearings have settled in. Do you think the slight pull might just be the camber of the roads you're driving on?

 

[2001LC]

It could be that the bearings have settled in. Do you think the slight pull might just be the camber of the roads you're driving on?

I always try to do steering pull test on the flattest stretch of HWY i can find. I'll recheck tire pressure and tread depth, then check for pull again, now that the temps are coming in so close form each side.

 

[2001LC]

After I "set the bearing" I torque it to ~12 ft lbs. I check the pressure on the claw washer by moving it around with a screw driver. I then base the torque off of how easy it is to move the washer. I have found that on my rig that ~12 ft lbs seems right. I then do the outer nut to FSM specs and everything seems to work fine.

Hope this might help.

Hi Shaggy101,

I was hope you could give me a little more information on setting the adjusting nut (inner nut) and Lock nut (outer nut).

Do you tighten the adjusting nut utile the claw washer won't move or just to the point before that where it is still barely moving?

Should the contact point of the inner and outer points of the claw washer, nut, spindle and bearings be: dry or greased during assemble?

Once the finial torque of 47 ft-lbs is applied to the lock nut, do you recheck the claw washer and what do you look for at this time?

Do you have you any info on the miles driven on and condition of components like claw washer and spindle after using this method?

Thanks.
2001LC