Wheel Bearing; FSM Torque to Light or just Right. (31 Viewers)

[2001LC]

10/14/10 Final set-up: wheel bearings adjustment nuts preload torque to 12 ft-lbs on "for now"

Emery clothed back of spindle and claw washer.
Dried grease off bearings where they contact back side of spindle and claw washer, and then installed claw washer flipped so flat side to bearing.
Installed Adjusting Nut (flipped so flat side to washer) and torque to 43 ft-lb to settle bearings, then loosened and torque to 12 ft-lbs, obtained a reading of ~2 lb 6 oz on fish scale starting breakaway pull test.
Installed lock washer and lock nut (flipped nut so flat side out Edited 10-14-15 recommended is flat side in, this give better grip with 54mm socket. Personally, I still go with flat side out.), torque to 47 ft-lbs, obtained a reading of 6 lb to 7 lb on fish scale after the lock nuts was torque.

Notes:

This is slightly tighter than last time (30K miles ago) I packed bearings and torque to 7 ft-lbs. which was apparently to loose, then, as I got wear (grooving) on spindle and claw washer. I've read in the 80 series, that once the wear starts, it’s difficult to stop, hopefully that won’t happen here and obscure my test torque setting results.

After final torque 12 ft-lbs on adj nut & 47 ft-lbs lock nut: starting breakaway preload of ~6 to 7 ft-lbs was about the same as observed when torque 35 ft-lbs on adj nut & 47 ft-lbs on lock nut.

Adjusting nut torque to 12 ft-lb claw washer was sung but movable, increased torque in 1 ft-lbs increments until 23 ft-lbs which is point claw washer held tight (unmovable). At 12 ft-lbs the starting breakaway as seen on fish scale was ~2 lb 6oz, at 23 ft-lbs it was ~3 lb 10 oz starting breakaway.

Didn't observed pull at highway speeds on return leg and temp of each hub equal and below ~108 F after 15 miles HWY.

In the past I've put the tapered side of claw washer facing bearing and flat side of nuts facing each other.

 

[buddysharp]

Hey 2001 LC, resurrecting the thread. Just installed new bearings and races as well as new rotors, pads, clips etc. You've doubtless had multiple bearing packs since your last post. Any further thoughts on preload and locking nut torque? thanks!

 

[2001LC]

Nope other than no issue so far. No I have not repack yet, 10K miles yet to go. What was your final torque on adj nut, lock nut and starting breakaway pre-load on fish scale?

 

[re_guderian]

Wow, I adjusted mine this week, and anything over 7 lbft on the adjusting nut put me over 20lbs on the fish scale. Am I the only one that was "close" to the FSM???

 

[2001LC]

Wow, I adjusted mine this week, and anything over 7 lbft on the adjusting nut put me over 20lbs on the fish scale. Am I the only one that was "close" to the FSM???

Broken-in bearings and races with synthetic grease or new replacements?

 

[buddysharp]

Nope other than no issue so far. No I have not repack yet, 10K miles yet to go. What was your final torque on adj nut, lock nut and starting breakaway pre-load on fish scale?

Good question. AFter reading all the multiple posts on the topic, asking my best pal, a Mercedes Guild Technician, and going to two different Toyota Dealerships, the concensus was that no one uses the fish scale method. The Toyota guy told me they didn't even have a fish scale in the shop. So that kinda spoiled my mood.

The dealership did my rotors previously, and I noticed scoring and significantly different tightness on the two sides when I removed this time. One was absurdly loose and the lock nut looked as bad as my rotor. The other seemed reasonable.

Since they were new bearings and races (OEM) I tried them both wet and dry and felt the difference in the pre-load. I went with the wet and I torqued the lock nut to 47, spun, backed off, then did it again. I set the torque to 7 ft lbs. and spun. No fish scale, Then I did it again. For outer nut, I torqued to FSM 47.

I did this on both wheels several times and even installed the hub and brakes to feel the wheel spin engaged. that of course was a bit pointless.

So, new rotors, pads, bearings, races, Mobil 1 synthetic grease, and fitment clips and pads for brakes. I wire brushed everything and re-used the cone washers and turned the one lock not around that was scored. I replaced the star locking washers. I plan to take it down and do brake lines, and OME suspension in Feb and will re-inspect then and post.

Thanks for your tips!

 

[DanInDenver]

Good question. AFter reading all the multiple posts on the topic, asking my best pal, a Mercedes Guild Technician, and going to two different Toyota Dealerships, the concensus was that no one uses the fish scale method. The Toyota guy told me they didn't even have a fish scale in the shop. So that kinda spoiled my mood. The dealership did my rotors previously, and I noticed scoring and significantly different tightness on the two sides when I removed this time. One was absurdly loose and the lock nut looked as bad as my rotor. The other seemed reasonable. Since they were new bearings and races (OEM) I tried them both wet and dry and felt the difference in the pre-load. I went with the wet and I torqued the lock nut to 47, spun, backed off, then did it again. I set the torque to 7 ft lbs. and spun. No fish scale, Then I did it again. For outer nut, I torqued to FSM 47. I did this on both wheels several times and even installed the hub and brakes to feel the wheel spin engaged. that of course was a bit pointless. So, new rotors, pads, bearings, races, Mobil 1 synthetic grease, and fitment clips and pads for brakes. I wire brushed everything and re-used the cone washers and turned the one lock not around that was scored. I replaced the star locking washers. I plan to take it down and do brake lines, and OME suspension in Feb and will re-inspect then and post. Thanks for your tips!

So I should cancel the order I made earlier today for the fish scale? Or does it have other purposes?

 

[buddysharp]

Well, there is some great fishing in Colorado as I'm sure you know.....with one day's hindsight, if I could have found a fish scale easily (went to 4 stores), I would have used it. It sounds like a good idea and I wouldn't recommend not following FSM; but just wanted to relate what I heard. If it's on it's way, then it's probably the sure fire way to get the torque right and if you follow the guidance from 2001LC then I don't think you can go wrong.

 

[Glacierskier]

So I should cancel the order I made earlier today for the fish scale? Or does it have other purposes?

Hang onto the fish scale. It was fun to see the difference in actual torque and pre-load. I used it as a reference point and then adjusted as needed. I only hope you bought the $5 special one from Amazon.

 

[2001LC]

Repacked again, at 163k miles. Found claw washers look better (much less scoring from chatter) with this higher torque of 12ft-lbf yielding a preload breakaway of ~6 to 7lb, set at last service (30K miles ago). Now trying even higher torque on adjusting nut of 23ft-lbf, to see if I get further improvement or burn up bearings. This higher torque is risky, but I attained ~13 to 15 lb of pull on fish scale (breakaway preload) at this torque.

Last service used a grease with Moly, to see if would recondition bearings. I'll not use moly again, it is not recommended for wheel bearings, as it retain more heat. I did use lithium based with Moly NGL #1 in axle needle bearing and bushing, which I'm told is correct. I can see it correct for axle bushing (holds better), but a bit concerned with moly on needle bearing.

Oh yeah, I saved a great deal of time with Slee Off Road's tool the SLEE GREASEMASTER, thanks guys.

I edited #1 post to reflect.

 

[cooper30]

I thought I'd tag on to this and give my input since it seems like the most recent thread about bearing preload. I found it after doing a search when I ran into some questions while tightening my bearings.

I recently purchased a 2000 LX470 with 114k. When doing oil change I noticed loose passenger wheel bearing so I took it apart and repacked it.

This is my first Toyota/Lexus, but I have years and years of experience with older, solid front axle Dodges...the Dana 44 on them has the same basic wheel bearing set up, so I am familiar with doing bearings.

Anyway, when reinstalling everything today, I was following the service manual as far as tightening procedures. I tightened inner nut to 43 ft/lbs then loosened , then tried to go to the 37-57 in/lbs specified. When I did so, I had visible play and less than 2 lbs on my scale. I then tightened up the inner nut bit by bit until I reached 14 lbs on the scale. I'm not sure what the final torque reading was, but it was high. My spidey senses told me that this was way too tight and would risk burning up the bearings.

My next step was to come here and search. After an hour of reading, I was well educated on the confusion about tightening wheel beaings on our trucks.

My experience with wheel bearings was always to tighten the inner nut to a high torque value to seat the bearings, then loosen. Then tighten again to a final torque while turning the hub/rotor. On some, the manuals have you tighten it a certain number of degrees. A lot of times, the outer nut wouldn't be much more than finger tight.

Today, I ended up tightening the inner nut to 30 ft/lbs. That got rid of all visible play and gave a scale reading of 9-9.5 ft/lbs (which is at the lower end of the service manual specs). I did tighten the outer nut to 47 ft/lbs as per the printed specs.

All my life, I've been a believer in a bit too loose is better than too tight. This was my reasoning in going with the lower end of the scale specs. I have no noticeable play, and I will keep an eye on the temps over the next few days. This weekend I will put it up again and see if there is any play.

As a side not, there was a scoring on the "claw washer" when I took it out, so it may have been loose for a while. I flipped the washer and will see what it looks like this weekend.

Thanks to everyone for posting your information.

 

[2001LC]

I've read; "once the claw washer has scoring, it's near impossible to stop it from scoring again". But I'll bet they look better on next service with the higher torque and fish scale reading you're using. I find after torqueing locking nut (outer nut) to 47 ft/lbs, that the preload breakaway (fish scale reading) goes up a bit.

Cooper30, did you check the snap ring gap pre & post?

 

[cooper30]

I didn't when I disassembled, but I did when I reassembled. I had to use a new ring. 8 thou was a no-go. 7 just barely.

 

[cooper30]

I was looking over the manual again, and I think I may be overthinking it.

The manual says,

HINT: Make sure to check preload in the direction of rotation. If the preload is not within the specification, adjust it again with the adjusting nut.

If 9.5-15 lbs is what we are supposed to have for preload, then I guess the above statement sort of tells us to continue to tighten the inner nut until we reach it. I just had a problem with 14lbs on the scale...it seemed too tight. That's why I went to the lower end of the scale.

I'll drive it to work the next couple days then check it. If I get really motivated, I'll take it apart, clean off the bearings, and see how they look.

 

[2001LC]

I was looking over the manual again, and I think I may be overthinking it.

The manual says,

If 9.5-15 lbs is what we are supposed to have for preload, then I guess the above statement sort of tells us to continue to tighten the inner nut until we reach it. I just had a problem with 14lbs on the scale...it seemed too tight. That's why I went to the lower end of the scale.

I'll drive it to work the next couple days then check it. If I get really motivated, I'll take it apart, clean off the bearings, and see how they look.

I came to same conclusion, torque is only starting point, preload is goal.
I find that checking the preload by turning the wheel at least one full turn, then pull with fish scale in same direction, without reversing direction at all, gives best breakaway reading. I repeat until I get same breakaway reading at least two times. If the angle of pull is a little high, I'll get a higher reading, low angle and get a lower reading. The trick is to be dead on 90% angle.

I've also found that when the adjusting nut is set to these higher torques (~20 lb-ft), the breakaway fish scale reading is less affected after torqueing lock nut. The orientation of the claw washer & adjusting nuts (flat side in or out) will also effect this slightly. I went with both rounded sides of nuts contacting locking washer, although recommended is flat sides both in (same direction).

 

[cooper30]

I lifted the truck today and checked the side I did a week and a half ago. Still tight.

I did the other side...ended up replacing the bearings as the ones in there showed signs of having heated up at some point. In addition, the inner nut was loose. No scoring on the claw washer though.

Putting everything back together, 30 ft/lbs on the inner nut gave me 10-10.5 lbs on the scale on this side.

I'll be checking both sides for play in a couple thousand miles since my oil change will be up then.


As a side note, I can't express enough how pleased I am that these trucks have serviceable front bearings unlike the GMC I recently had.....on that I found that to get a unit bearing that wouldn't mess with the ABS, I had to spend just under $300 for it (for just one side). I bought inner and outer bearings for one side of the LX yesterday for $75 at NAPA.

 

[2001LC]

**
I did the other side...ended up replacing the bearings as the ones in there showed signs of having heated up at some point. In addition, the inner nut was loose. No scoring on the claw washer though.

****.

I'm surprised the claw washer was not scored.
Would you mind explaining why you say adjusting/inner nut was loose? i.e. post disassembly; claw washer moveable before LOCK NUT removed, finger tight adjusting nut, scale test or torque check.
Any idea of how many mile since last service on the bearings?

 

[cooper30]

According to the receipts I have, the last bearing service was just over 30k miles ago.

When I went to remove the inner nut, it was up against the claw washer, but I was easily able to turn it with just my fingers. The outer nut was tight (I needed socket/breaker bar to loosen it), and the lock washer was properly installed.

The grease that was in there was pretty thin and ugly looking. I question whether the place the previous owner took it to did as in-depth a repack as I did. It looked like the outer bearing was pulled, but the inner bearing and seal was just left in and fresh grease slapped on top of the old.

 

[TexasCrane]

If the lock washer is in place, I don't see how either one of the adjustment nuts could loosen up.

 

[cooper30]

I doubt it loosened up on its own. I suspect it wasn't torqued correctly in the first place.