What work can I get done at 250k when pulling the transmission out of 1FZ-FE? (1 Viewer)

[TheGreenAppa]

Hey mud, I've had my 97 fzj80 for 5k miles. When I first got it I replaced the valve cover, the hoses, and the radiator. I also replaced the fluids and got new tires. A couple of weeks ago I noticed a smell coming from the car when I drove it. Yesterday while driving I saw the temperature gauge shoot up below red, so I stopped the car and popped the hood. I saw that I was low on coolant. I ended up adding more and drove to the mechanic. After a pressure test, they say I have a decent leak probably coming from the rear freezer plugs. They mentioned that they need to pull the transmission in order to be sure what it is.

Now let's say it is the freezer plug which I need to replace and they need to pull the transmission. Since pulling the transmission is a pretty expensive job I was wondering what other work that allows me to get done while the engine and tranny are disconnected. Doing some research I see that I can replace the rear heater hard lines, the rear main seal, the clutch throw-out bearing, transmission mounts, the oil pan gasket, and flywheel bolts. I was wondering if there was any mud recommended work I could do at 250k miles with the transmission dropped. Thanks!

P.s I thought about asking them to remove the engine instead so we can get a better look at it and do more work but since the truck is running so smooth I'm not sure that is really needed.

 

[zapatius]

The freeze plugs on the back of the head? Can't see why you need to pull the trans to check them.

 

[Malleus]

The freeze plugs face the firewall. Pulling the transmission is only marginally helpful. You can get them out without removing anything, it's getting them back in that's the problem. They really need to be inserted square to the bore and driven in that way. That's not possible with the engine in place. You can get them in, but there's no guarantee they won't leak.

I'd never pull the engine only. It's too much work to get the engine and transmission bolted together under the truck, and no more work to get them both out and back in bolted together (you do need to split the transmission and transfer, though). Plus, once it's out, you can take care of the pan leaks. Everything else is just a bonus:

1. cleaning the nasty engine-transmission harness plugs
2. replacing the heater hose (PHH)
3. replacing the power steering lines
4. flushing the radiator (at a shop), as well as the transmission cooler lines (since they're open at this point)
5. cleaning the engine compartment
6. cleaning the engine, transmission and transfer case
7. replacing the transfer case sensors
8. replacing the exhaust header (Y-pipe) gaskets
9. replacing the engine sensors
10. cleaning the engine wiring harness

in the order above, and in addition to those other items you mentioned, but these would be first on my list. Of course, you need to add all the gaskets: engine/transmission oil pan plug, fuel line, power steering, and intake manifold, if you're going to clean it while the engine's out (I would). You'll also need new engine oil, transmission and power steering fluid (which are the same thing).

In short, everything, short of rebuilding the engine. I wouldn't skimp on these things, if I had the engine out; you'll never have an easier time doing any of this.

 

[sbman]

If you have a leaking freeze plug you probably have more serious issues with the cooling system. They usually only leak if they have heavy corrosion, and if one does, well the entire cooling system is probably in a seriously bad state. I'd consider having the engine pulled with the transmission and do a full cooling system restore, have all the freeze plugs replaced and a head gasket done, and would seriously consider a valve job as well as most of the stuff Malleus just posted.

Another possibility is that it is actually the head gasket leaking near the rear of the motor and not a freeze plug. Pulling the trans only doesn't make much sense in any scenario, to me at least. Head gasket leaks are a lot more common than freeze plugs on these motors, and usually the rear cylinders are the culprit, at 250K miles it would not be surprising at all.

 

[Kernal]

Everything already said above but @TheGreenAppa IMHO, you need to first make sure that the leak is not just from a water hose on the firewall, or the Pesky Heater Hose under the intake, or from the rear heater pipes/hoses that run down the firewall starting above the transmission bellhousing.

Can you ask the mechanic for photos of the leak source, or have him show it to you directly?

If you don't know, the original Head Gasket in the 1FZFE can be a problem, some blew (leaked) at 50,000 miles, some didn't blow until after 300,000 miles.

Historically based on all the people on this forum who've posted up their head gasket repairs, the original Head Gasket will fail at some point, just a matter of time. So you might as well do it all now if you can confirm the leaking freeze plug and you end up pulling the engine

There's a list as long as your arm of things to do while the engine is out that Mud members who've been on the 80 forum know about but which many shop mechanics just aren't aware of. Best situation would be to find a mechanic who's worked on this model (FZJ80) before if you can.

Either way IME most shop mechanics don't have the time to do all the little things those of us with LC OCD (Land Cruiser OCD) would do. Mechanics on the clock are pressed for time and unless they're given a specific list of things to clean, repair, replace, it's easy to miss some of them.

FWIW

 

[TheGreenAppa]

Thanks for the replies. They are much more thorough than I expected. I'll confirm with the shop that it's not the water hose on the firewall, or the Pesky Heater Hose under the intake, or from the rear heater pipes/hoses above the transmission bell housing. After that based on the current shop's recommendation, I think I might invest in getting my LC to a land cruiser-specific shop. There are some in my area but they are a bit further away. I don't think the shop it's currently at knows all the intricacies of these engines. I'm worried that they might remove the engine and transmission to do the required job and miss other important things. Wasting the opportunity. I appreciate the help.

 

[TheGreenAppa]

I spoke with the shop and pointed out the areas mentioned above. They'll update me tomorrow. I highlighted that the freeze plugs should be visible without removing the transmission. However, they insisted on doing so. On a positive note, they provided clearer reasons this time. They noticed coolant dripping from the transmission bell housing and, upon pressure testing, found coolant emanating from the rear of the cylinder head. Moreover, they observed significant rust upon removing the radiator cap. Here are some pictures. I wasn't able to upload the video they sent me but it wasn't that clear. Seemed like water from the pressure test leaking from under the car.

 

[Malleus]

If they found coolant leaking from the rear of the head, the leak isn't a freeze plug; the head doesn't have them. You should plan on replacing the headgasket.

FWIW, I removed just the head when I replaced the headgasket on my son's 80. I'll never do that again. In the time it took me to save time just removing the head, I could have pulled the front end, removed the engine and transmission, and fixed a lot and preventatively replaced many parts, and had a clean engine, transmission, suspension, axle and engine compartment.

 

[Kernal]

The rust may not be a great thing and that isn't very much but either way it may or may not be related to an external leak.

Just step back and think about it; first they say it's a Freeze Plug and they'll have to pull the transmission. At that point if you said go ahead, they would have already pulled the transmission.

Now they say it's from the "rear of the cylinder head"; do they mean a crack in the head, or between the head and the block, or???

At this point anything they tell you is suspect but it sounds like they may be trying to get you so worried you'll agree to anything, or they're playing poke and hope until they find the right diagnosis.

Or, the Freeze Plug story was just to get you to agree to pulling the transmission, maybe they knew it was a leaking head gasket and didn't want to mention it until things were apart, then hit you with the big estimate??

Or, they don't have clue??

IMHO you need to see with your own eyeballs exactly what they're seeing
realtime; watch to see exactly where the coolant is coming from, and then take photos or video yourself and post them up here.

Otherwise just hand them a check for $8000 and pick it up in a week or two
with half the other things that should have been taken care at the same time not attended to.

Personally I would take it to another shop that's familiar with this model
if there is one locally.

 

[sbman]

I spoke with the shop and pointed out the areas mentioned above. They'll update me tomorrow. I highlighted that the freeze plugs should be visible without removing the transmission. However, they insisted on doing so. On a positive note, they provided clearer reasons this time. They noticed coolant dripping from the transmission bell housing and, upon pressure testing, found coolant emanating from the rear of the cylinder head. Moreover, they observed significant rust upon removing the radiator cap. Here are some pictures. I wasn't able to upload the video they sent me but it wasn't that clear. Seemed like water from the pressure test leaking from under the car. View attachment 3452178

There are two possible sources of coolant on the back of the engine. Between the cylinder head/block (leaking head gasket) or a 'freeze plug' inside the transmission bellhousing area of the block.

If it is emanating from the back of the head, that's above the 'freeze plug' and it's running down around and dripping off the bottom of the transmission bellhousing, NOT leaking from the 'freeze plug'. Either way, pulling the transmission isn't going to solve the issue. If the cylinder head is leaking, you need to pull the head, not the trans. If any freeze plug in the block is leaking coolant because it's rusted out, then ALL of them should be replaced, not just the rear one. To do that, you'd want to pull the engine to do it right (there is also one in the front under the timing chain, and down both sides of the block). Another possibility is the 'pesky heater hose'. You can see the outlet pipe that attaches a coolant hose on the lower left side of the head in the picture. If that hose is cracked it could be spraying onto the back / side of the engine around the same area. That's all pretty hard to see up in there.

 

[Hornd]

You Definitely want to do the Rear Heater Lines if you pull the tranny. They run on Left & Right side of Tranny. They are impossible to service with the transmission in place. You can also bypass them if you no longer want your rear heater.

 

[Fj80oregon]

I think you need a Toyota specialty shop. George with valley hybrid will sort you out or I have read on the forums A+ Japanese auto repair has a great reputation. They may be a drive away but you’re paying for top notch specialty shops. Yota1 is an awesome shop also but a distance from you.

 

[TheGreenAppa]

I think you need a Toyota specialty shop. George with valley hybrid will sort you out or I have read on the forums A+ Japanese auto repair has a great reputation. They may be a drive away but you’re paying for top notch specialty shops. Yota1 is an awesome shop also but a distance from you.

My 80 is at A+ right now. They wanted to remove the transmission just to see if it's the freeze plugs. They still haven't gotten back to me if there were able to look again at the places I learned about in this thread. I hit up valley hybrid as a backup and they said for that work they would just tell me to go to yota1. I reached out to yota1 this week and they haven't gotten back to me yet. From their prices online it looks like a 1fz-fe rebuild is 4500 without removal or install. I asked about lead times because from what I see online it's 5 months plus. I'm doing my do diligence but kinda worried I won't be able to drive my 80 for a while which is a huge bummer. I'm half thinking of buying some of that coolant leak repair stuff and seeing if that improves anything. Again it's so weird because the engine runs so good and doesn't drink any oil.

 

[ajax1]

Do not put coolant repair leak in it.

 

[Kernal]

It may be tempting to just pour in some block sealer hoping it will work, and it may stop the leak for ?? months, but there's a big downside. The sealer contains sodium silicate otherwise known as "liquid glass" which coats everything and can block smaller passageways.

Here's a link with some photos of what I found in an engine that had that sheit poured in:

Temporary Radiator Suggestions?

So, here's the thing. Radiator leaks like a sieve (2/3 gallon fill-up before departure, another before coming back. I have a five-mile range before I'm in the 200s with heater/rear heater blasting and coasting in neutral as much as possible. AND it's time to visit the CA Smog Police, who will...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Fj80oregon]

My 80 is at A+ right now. They wanted to remove the transmission just to see if it's the freeze plugs. They still haven't gotten back to me if there were able to look again at the places I learned about in this thread. I hit up valley hybrid as a backup and they said for that work they would just tell me to go to yota1. I reached out to yota1 this week and they haven't gotten back to me yet. From their prices online it looks like a 1fz-fe rebuild is 4500 without removal or install. I asked about lead times because from what I see online it's 5 months plus. I'm doing my due diligence but kinda worried I won't be able to drive my 80 for a while which is a huge bummer. I'm half thinking of buying some of that coolant leak repair stuff and seeing if that improves anything. Again it's so weird because the engine runs so good and doesn't drink any oil.

Sorry didn’t know A+ was the shop. Take a breath and let’s talk options. I’m off to hunt for the morning and will list some when I get back. Don’t put leak stop my machine shop won’t touch an engine with it.

 

[bigredmachine]

i would also replace the oil cooler if the motors coming out. depending on the year you can delete the vsvs and evap stuff under the intake to simplify all that, replace the coolant lines to the throttle body, if the trans is coming out as mentioned above replace the rear heat lines if you plan on keepign that

 

[TheLCProject]

You're getting good feedback here. Need to rule out the PHH and some of the other more likely culprits

I think it might be wise to become comfortable with the idea that your truck will be down for a while, either at a shop or in your driveway while you DIY.

 

[TheGreenAppa]

Hey everyone, here's the update on my coolant leak issue:

The lead technician, who specializes in cruisers, took some time off so it took a while to get a second inspection done. They've since inspected the vehicle and confirmed the leak isn't from the rear of the cylinder head or the PHH. I've decided to have a shop(still shopping around) remove the engine and transmission to address the leak. However, I'm torn between focusing on preventive maintenance (PM) or proceeding with a head job. Many suggest going for the head job, but I've heard it's possible to do this while the engine is still in the vehicle. If that's true, I'm considering postponing the head job and focusing on PM tasks, like the ones Malleus mentioned. Given my budget constraints, I'm leaning towards addressing issues that specifically require the engine and transmission to be removed. I'd appreciate any advice on the best approach.
PM things to do with the engine out:

1. pan leaks
2. cleaning the nasty engine-transmission harness plugs
3. replacing the heater hose (PHH)
4. replacing the power steering lines
5. replacing the transfer case sensors

 

[Fj80oregon]

Hold on what is leaking? Still think it ls a freeze plug?