What Did You Do with Your 80 This Weekend? (122 Viewers)

[Bludozer]

@NLXTACY thats terrible news!!!

Not sure how that is terrible news or even bad. Likely will be priced very similarly and worse in nearly every conceivable way. I don't think any real appreciable turbo business will be lost to it, the only people buying it will be those who either never knew the turbo existed or those who are just plain ignorant.

 

[scottryana]

Everyone can make their choices, just make sure it is the right one. Haha.

Not sure how that is terrible news or even bad. Likely will be priced very similarly and worse in nearly every conceivable way. I don't think any real appreciable turbo business will be lost to it, the only people buying it will be those who either never knew the turbo existed or those who are just plain ignorant.

 

[NLXTACY]

Everyone can make their choices, just make sure it is the right one. Haha.

View attachment 1983993

Dollars and sense.

 

[Cruzilla]

You could try and test two equally 7 psi boosted systems.
A 5 psi Super Charger vs a 7.25 psi Turbo...
Of course the Turbo will have much higher HP and Torque... not a fair playing field.
Just saying...

 

[scottryana]

Tested as delivered by manufacturer. If Magnuson wanted the system at 7psi they would ship it that way. There is a reason they do not.

You could try and test two equally 7 psi boosted systems.
A 5 psi Super Charger vs a 7.25 psi Turbo...
Of course the Turbo will have much higher HP and Torque... not a fair playing field.
Just saying...

 

[Cruzilla]

So you are saying what exactly? That your 7.25 psi turbo will run cooler than a 7 psi Super Charger?

 

[scottryana]

Yep

"Of the three basic supercharger types, the Roots design historically possessed the worst thermal efficiency, especially at high pressure ratios." - Bell, Corky. Supercharged!. Bentley Publishers, 2001, p. 48.

Using the compressor maps for the M90 Supercharger and Turbo in the kit, the efficiency at which the air is compressed is around 54% for the Supercharger and 76% for the Turbo.

And just to be clear it is not my turbo, I make no financial gains off of the turbo kit, I only provided tech input.

So you are saying what exactly? That your 7.25 psi turbo will run cooler than a 7 psi Super Charger?

 

[AlaskanWheeler]

The youngest wanted to change the oil today.

 

[Bludozer]

I only provided tech input.

Which has frankly been invaluable. Thanks for all the chiming in you do.

 

[Cruzilla]

Here is a good explanation of the two. Having owned and driven both types I agree with this guys assessment.

 

[BILT4ME]

Positive displacement Roots- type blowers increase air temp approximately 15°F per one PSI of compression.

5 PSI x 15=75°F IAT increase.

 

[Qball]

Positive displacement Roots- type blowers increase air temp approximately 15°F per one PSI of compression.

5 PSI x 15=75°F IAT increase.

How about turbo? Is there a consistency temperature rise per PSI?

Here is a good explanation of the two. Having owned and driven both types I agree with this guys assessment.

Great video! However on a 6000+ lb rig I prefer efficiency over throttle response since it’s no Miata......

 

[leonard_nemoy]

Mind me asking what that cost you? Strongly considering doing a vortec swap or the Wits End turbo. My only complain about the truck is the lack of power

I don't know what the op paid but right now in my neck of the woods I can buy a running 5.3 with a 4l60e, computer, harness, and accessories for $1300. I plan on on purchasing one in about a year to begin the slow process.....

 

[scottryana]

No there really is no consistent temp rise for either the supercharger or turbo charger it all depends on where they are in their efficiency range. You need to look at their compressor maps to get an idea. A lot goes into sizing a turbo. BW has a lot of information and you can use their Matchbot to start getting familiar with how some of it works.

How about turbo? Is there a consistency temperature rise per PSI?



Great video! However on a 6000+ lb rig I prefer efficiency over throttle response since it’s no Miata......

 

[Qball]

View attachment 1983993

Pretty sure you can’t be more clear than this.....mic drop!


38% more power and 16.38% more torque to all four wheels for about the same price.......the decision is soooo hard!

I must consult the magic 8 ball!

 

[stevenmichael]

no bleeder valve, usually i just jack my front up or drive up on a curb and get the radiator filler neck the highest point when filling. get to normal operation temp and you can tell when the thermostat opens and bubbles up, keep filling and top off the cap and overflow tank to the line. Watch the coolant level the next few days and add if necessary.

That looks like a great tool to have , that should work great .

 

[SammyB]

Mind me asking what that cost you?

I'm in the motor 700 bucks. For my area, my best bet was finding the motor on craigslist and getting the transmission from a junk yard.

 

[KrOswalt]

Positive displacement Roots- type blowers increase air temp approximately 15°F per one PSI of compression.

5 PSI x 15=75°F IAT increase.

Is there a “cap” so to speak to that? As in is there a point where only so much heat is made? 15° seems to be outgragiously high. I know you said approximately, but still even if it was a 10° increase 50° seems like an outstanding increase

I don't know what the op paid but right now in my neck of the woods I can buy a running 5.3 with a 4l60e, computer, harness, and accessories for $1300. I plan on on purchasing one in about a year to begin the slow process.....

Sounds about right. I can get a 5.3 with the matching 4l60 that’s been rebuilt for $1,500. Kind of torn between the turbo and a motor swap

 

[BILT4ME]

Is there a “cap” so to speak to that? As in is there a point where only so much heat is made? 15° seems to be outgragiously high. I know you said approximately, but still even if it was a 10° increase 50° seems like an outstanding increase


Sounds about right. I can get a 5.3 with the matching 4l60 that’s been rebuilt for $1,500. Kind of torn between the turbo and a motor swap

See the below article to explain how you get there.

Air Compressor Theory - The Cool Science Behind Compressed Air

Learn about basic air compressor theory, including thermodynamics and the physics of compressing air. We'll cover Boyle's Law, Charles' Law, and more!

www.vmacair.com

I deal with pneumatic conveying systems that convey dry, granular products from point A to point B using pressure, typically created using Roots-Type straight lobe positive displacement blowers (yes, actual Roots blowers, similar to what is installed on a car/truck, but MUCH larger).

In all our rough calculations, the heat of compression averages (for practical speed of calculations) about 15°F per PSI of compression of ambient air. That changes as you increase in elevation because the air is less dense and it takes more energy and more rotations to compress the air to the same amount in density. Our systems operate between 3 PSI and 15 PSI to do what we do (if we go above 15 PSI (1 ATM) then we end up in ASME coded pressure vessels and that's too expensive for the industrial market) So, temp increases over ambient are between 45°F and 225°F increase over ambient. So, if ambient air temp is 105°F on a hot day, then our output temp is approximately 225+105=330°F if we are operating at 15 PSI. That's hot enough to burn the paint off the piping and silencers (mufflers) during operation.

Elevation is such a factor when using positive displacement (PD) blowers that the electric motor HP must increase by one full size (ie go from 50 HP to 60 HP or 60 HP to 75 HP), not because it requires more HP to do it, but because the cooling density on the exterior of the electric motor is not enough to keep the motor cool with the lower density of air.

Since the PD blower must turn MORE times to get the same mass of air, the PD blower becomes less efficient at elevation because it is engine RPM specific and the engine air/fuel ratios will continue to suffer.

However, since a turbo is spun at a direct ratio of the amount of exhaust gases, it will spool up according to the amount of gas expansion through the exhaust and will increase the intake air in a direct relationship to the amount of exhaust gases and will maintain air/fuel ratios through elevation changes.

@scottryana is MUCH better versed on this than I, but I wanted to advise that the heat of compression of a PD type blower is significant. Turbos will also have heat of compression (again, see the attached article) but they will be different due to less mechanical input and better efficiencies of compression.

Even though it "seems" excessive......it's SCIENCE!

 

[dannyp]

drove it to an event loaded like the clampets.. wheeled it for a couple days.

then drove around several states looking for a cruiser for the wife.. found one and took it home....