Builds Welcome home Matilda - faded like your favorite pair of jeans (1 Viewer)

[toy_tek]

On the subject of pinion angle. I had some vibration that I narrowed down to a 2* difference between xfer case flange and the rear pinion flange, so I was planning to add 2* shims on the axle. In the meantime I did the H55 swap. Now I’m setting my xfer case angle to match the existing (no shim) pinion angle and it occurred to me that perhaps a worn out transmission mount could change the xfer case flange angle? I wouldn’t think it could be much but is your mount newer or old?

Also are your dobbie spring packs the medium or heavy?

 

[CruiserTrash]

On the subject of pinion angle. I had some vibration that I narrowed down to a 2* difference between xfer case flange and the rear pinion flange, so I was planning to add 2* shims on the axle. In the meantime I did the H55 swap. Now I’m setting my xfer case angle to match the existing (no shim) pinion angle and it occurred to me that perhaps a worn out transmission mount could change the xfer case flange angle? I wouldn’t think it could be much but is your mount newer or old?

Also are your dobbie spring packs the medium or heavy?

On early 60s the front driveshaft has a double cardan joint at the transfer case and a single u-joint at the diff. The pinion and single u-joint should have a zero degree angle - straight in line with each other - and that’s opposite of the way you want to rotate for good caster. So the two are fighting against each other. With 6* shims I was trying to improve the driveshaft angle and seeing how bad the caster would get. I think my angle finding and math showed I could go to about 5*. Well, now the steering is wandery above about 40mph so I need to back off.

Up until Sunday I had old cast aluminum 4* shims that were so corroded that they were more like 3*. The tracking was alright. Like I said the 6* shims were an attempt to continue pushing the pinion angle to be better until I found the point where the steering suffered… well, I found it haha.

Ultimately there are two solutions: cut & turn the front axle housing or get a driveshaft with a single u-joint at the top and bottom. The latter might require notching and reinforcing the transmission crossmember. For now I’ll back off the shim angle and abuse the single u-joint when I’m wheeling.

Fwiw the transmission mount is two months old. The rear Dobinsons springs are medium and the fronts are HZJ75 springs with two of the four leaves removed from each side. I’d call them light.

 

[CruiserTrash]

This isn't related to the 60 at all, but my partner and I had another one join the fleet yesterday. We secured it from far away back in January but didn't actually get it - or lay eyes on it - until yesterday.

I'll get a build thread going in the 40/55 forum when I start working on it. It's a rusty pile of crap but a lot of the important stuff is there and the motor turns over by hand ... and most importantly the price was right. Huge thanks to @joesfj40 for major assistance and delivery and to @HemiAlex for accidentally being in town to help with delivery and offloading. Those two boys are not only the worst kind of enablers, but extremely solid individuals that I owe a great debt to for this and other stuff. Thanks to @pardion as well for some key parts that I accumulated in advance of the delivery. Oh, and thanks to Karen for steering while us three guys pushed the thing up the sloped apron into the garage. She handled the manual steering like a champ.

On the 60 front, I'm still waiting for the machine shop to wrap up work on the block. It seems to be taking a while. 64 days to Solid Axle Summit, so it's going to be a time crunch assembling the motor, swapping it in place of the old one, and getting through break in. Send help!

 

[CruiserTrash]

A while back I replaced all the cooling system components - water pump, a couple of iffy pipes, all the coolant hoses, fan clutch - and then this year replaced my my leaking original radiator with a CSF. Well, all except one hose, the rear heater return that comes from the left side firewall to the tee at the back side of the head next to the temp sender.

Guess what? It ruptured at 70mph yesterday. Let it be a lesson that when you replace 40 year old parts, replace them ALL.

I had been running at 185-195 with the original radiator - no matter the season or driving conditions, even pulling up long mountain grades. After I installed the CSF it ran at 195-200, and would climb to 210 on long mountain grades. I had blamed the radiator, not for being faulty but for not being as good as the original one. The new working theory that my friend Nate proposed is that it had been leaking for a while and slowly draining the coolant. With a compromise in the pressurization of the sealed system, it wasn’t sucking out of the overflow reservoir so everything looked normal. And the slight leak was going between a heat shield and the firewall so I couldn’t see it.

I was just leaving Classic Cruisers where I had been hanging out with @POTATO LAUNCHER, so he and Nate ran the 5 miles down the road to bring me some hose and coolant to get me back on the road. Land Cruiser buddies are the best.

Bonus photos…
Dusk in Poncha springs.

So much cool stuff at CC

@Rockymtnreaper here’s the rest of the story on the CSF. It ran great all the way home after I replaced the hose and refilled the system. I was mostly around 185-195, and a couple times on long climbs I got 200-205. Much better than the 210-215 I was seeing on the highway before. As usual it was operator error.

 

[CruiserTrash]

My spare 2F block is back from machining. The shop balanced my new OEM pistons, crankshaft, rods, and machined flywheel. The NOS Toyota cam has been ground by Delta with a “KC” grind (what they apparently call their RV grind) and is ready to go. Lifters ground at Delta too. I think I have every last little nut, bolt, seal, gasket, and crush washer on hand. OE supplier Taiho bearings and NPR rings too. Crank and connecting rod journals were ground 10 under, cylinders 40 over. Cam bearings and thrust clearance remained standard.

Next step is to mask it off and paint it so it gets good dry & cure time before handling. I have a few more parts to clean and paint as well - oil cooler, oil filter bracket, side cover. Then I’ll start putting her together.

The owner of the machine shop said 20-30 minutes varying between 1800-2200rpm to break in the cam, then change the oil filter. After that drive it like a commuter for 500 miles (no highway, no hard pulls) then dump the break in oil, replace it with something quality, and I’m good to go. If I continue daily driving (still no highway or hard pulls) for another 500 that wouldn’t hurt.

During assembly he said assembly grease on the cam and lifters and assembly oil on the bearings, cylinders, etc. Or do I have that backwards … He also told me plastigauging one main and one rod bearing is fine, but doing all of them wouldn’t hurt.

On the balancing - and if I’m reading the sheet correctly - they went from about 200oz of counterweight at 10000rpm resulting in 400+ lbs of force, to .09oz of counterweights at 10000rpm with 16lbs of force. I have no idea what any of that means, but obviously the weights and force got a lot smaller. I’m assuming that must be for the crankshaft.

Around 60 days until Solid Axle Summit…

 

[FJBen]

A while back I replaced all the cooling system components - water pump, a couple of iffy pipes, all the coolant hoses, fan clutch - and then this year replaced my my leaking original radiator with a CSF. Well, all except one hose, the rear heater return that comes from the left side firewall to the tee at the back side of the head next to the temp sender.

Guess what? It ruptured at 70mph yesterday. Let it be a lesson that when you replace 40 year old parts, replace them ALL.
View attachment 3650706

I had been running at 185-195 with the original radiator - no matter the season or driving conditions, even pulling up long mountain grades. After I installed the CSF it ran at 195-200, and would climb to 210 on long mountain grades. I had blamed the radiator, not for being faulty but for not being as good as the original one. The new working theory that my friend Nate proposed is that it had been leaking for a while and slowly draining the coolant. With a compromise in the pressurization of the sealed system, it wasn’t sucking out of the overflow reservoir so everything looked normal. And the slight leak was going between a heat shield and the firewall so I couldn’t see it.

I was just leaving Classic Cruisers where I had been hanging out with @POTATO LAUNCHER, so he and Nate ran the 5 miles down the road to bring me some hose and coolant to get me back on the road. Land Cruiser buddies are the best.

Bonus photos…
Dusk in Poncha springs.
View attachment 3650725

So much cool stuff at CC
View attachment 3650726

@Rockymtnreaper here’s the rest of the story on the CSF. It ran great all the way home after I replaced the hose and refilled the system. I was mostly around 185-195, and a couple times on long climbs I got 200-205. Much better than the 210-215 I was seeing on the highway before. As usual it was operator error.

This. I would say it should be part of a baseline on all older cruisers you get. Replace all cooling hoses.

These old temp sensors basically suck. If coolant leaks out, the temp gauge will Still read normal temp as it’s just reading the air temp. If you are watching you can see it spike a little or be warmer then drop back to normal.

I run an auber gauge that reads the thermostat housing temp. Should help read engine temps.

The next best would be a coolant level gauge. Then you would know when coolant comes and goes

 

[CruiserTrash]

This. I would say it should be part of a baseline on all older cruisers you get. Replace all cooling hoses.

These old temp sensors basically suck. If coolant leaks out, the temp gauge will Still read normal temp as it’s just reading the air temp. If you are watching you can see it spike a little or be warmer then drop back to normal.

I run an auber gauge that reads the thermostat housing temp. Should help read engine temps.

The next best would be a coolant level gauge. Then you would know when coolant comes and goes

I'm generally an anxious guy, so I installed an upper radiator hose temp sender and Autometer gauge years ago. That gauge was locked in at 210 and I saw it suddenly jump to 230 in a matter of seconds. I immediately knew something was wrong. Started coasting - downhill luckily - and shut it off before it got to 240 and coasted the rest of the way to a good spot 10' from the road. I'd like to eventually install the sender in the thermostat housing so it's closer to block temp ... but my setup is "good enough" for now. Just having a reasonably accurate gauge with numbers is better than the stock dummy gauge.

 

[FJBen]

I'm generally an anxious guy, so I installed an upper radiator hose temp sender and Autometer gauge years ago. That gauge was locked in at 210 and I saw it suddenly jump to 230 in a matter of seconds. I immediately knew something was wrong. Started coasting - downhill luckily - and shut it off before it got to 240 and coasted the rest of the way to a good spot 10' from the road. I'd like to eventually install the sender in the thermostat housing so it's closer to block temp ... but my setup is "good enough" for now. Just having a reasonably accurate gauge with numbers is better than the stock dummy gauge.

That’s good. Things goes south quick when coolant is missing…

My friend imported my bj74 in 2014. He only had it a month when out on the highway a heater hose blew. Gauge didn’t show it overheat.

Blew headgasket, bent 2 pushrods and trashed a lifter along with scoring a cylinder liner wall/piston. That thing chugged along for another hour unnoticed until he pulled into home and heard noises.

I bought it from him and rebuilt it, but yeah 1 little heater hose and no warning.

 

[CruiserTrash]

That’s good. Things goes south quick when coolant is missing…

My friend imported my bj74 in 2014. He only had it a month when out on the highway a heater hose blew. Gauge didn’t show it overheat.

Blew headgasket, bent 2 pushrods and trashed a lifter along with scoring a cylinder liner wall/piston. That thing chugged along for another hour unnoticed until he pulled into home and heard noises.

I bought it from him and rebuilt it, but yeah 1 little heater hose and no warning.

That’s a heck of a lot of damage … and I believe it too. One thing motors really don’t like is getting too hot. I’m glad you’ve got that truck, I follow your build thread and you’re a great caretaker. The sunset glamor shots alone are worth it.

For what it’s worth the previous owner had let this truck sit for 4-5 years because it was “hard to start and runs rough”. Zero oil drips on his garage floor, but when I got it off the trailer at home I found it had two quarts of oil in it. So the low end things got hot. Hence finding this:

This motor has taken me about 25k miles, but having learned my lesson in needing to do every job fully (and as a way to assuage my anxiety), I’m rebuilding a spare. At minimum, this motor needs bearings and rings, valve stem seals, and probably has some head warpage. It’s beyond doing any kind of in-situ band-aids, even if it does take me where I need to go.

 

[FJBen]

That’s a heck of a lot of damage … and I believe it too. One thing motors really don’t like is getting too hot. I’m glad you’ve got that truck, I follow your build thread and you’re a great caretaker. The sunset glamor shots alone are worth it.

For what it’s worth the previous owner had let this truck sit for 4-5 years because it was “hard to start and runs rough”. Zero oil drips on his garage floor, but when I got it off the trailer at home I found it had two quarts of oil in it. So the low end things got hot. Hence finding this:

View attachment 3652590

This motor has taken me about 25k miles, but having learned my lesson in needing to do every job fully (and as a way to assuage my anxiety), I’m rebuilding a spare. At minimum, this motor needs bearings and rings, valve stem seals, and probably has some head warpage. It’s beyond doing any kind of in-situ band-aids, even if it does take me where I need to go.

Thanks! Yeah I think the damage was due to coolant getting into the cylinder and well it doesn’t compress real well forgot it messed up a valve as well.
Didn’t really matter as I was going to fully rebuild it.

I try to keep some good pictures coming, lately sits pretty low on tech and high on photos. I suppose that’s a good thing!

These are incredibly tough engines and put up with a lot of abuse. Learning is part of the process. I think we would all do things differently and better if we got a 2nd chance.

 

[CruiserTrash]

I finally got back over to the shop last night to mask the block off for painting and take a closer look ... I'm not pleased. Bear in mind this is the go-to machine shop for all F/2F motors on the Front Range, and has been for decades.

-They called me last Thursday and left a voicemail asking if I had any cam bearings, which I did, and had dropped off with the block in the very beginning. I was out of town and didn't get to the voicemail until Friday by which time I had another voicemail saying everything was ready. I listened to them back to back. Hmmm.... I called and asked them if they found the bearings I gave them or what they ended up putting in, and they didn't really answer. On closer inspection last night they used bearings that have oiling holes for #2 and #3 positions (should only be #3), and a couple have some knicks and divots. They're used. Wonderful.

-I also noticed the coolant drain wasn't removed from the block. I took it out and of course there was a wall of gunk behind it. It would have been nice if they had removed that before hot tanking it.

-The press fit dipstick tube is missing entirely.

-I asked them to remove a broken bolt in the side cover gasket surface. It's still there.

-I also realized that I gave them new pistons for balancing, but never got my old pistons back. I would like to have those.

So now what? My local dealership is getting cam bearings and a dipstick tube overnighted. I'll have them in the morning. I guess I'm gonna have to take the block back for the cam bearings since I don't have the infrastructure to remedy that. May as well have them address the broken bolt too. I'll use brake cleaner and an air chuck to blow out the coolant passages. I have a new drain plug, the nicer 70 Series one. Hopefully they can find my old pistons, too.

What would y'all do? Take it back? Suck it up and run it?

 

[Bad Mojo]

I finally got back over to the shop last night to mask the block off for painting and take a closer look ... I'm not pleased. Bear in mind this is the go-to machine shop for all F/2F motors on the Front Range, and has been for decades.

-They called me last Thursday and left a voicemail asking if I had any cam bearings, which I did, and had dropped off with the block in the very beginning. I was out of town and didn't get to the voicemail until Friday by which time I had another voicemail saying everything was ready. I listened to them back to back. Hmmm.... I called and asked them if they found the bearings I gave them or what they ended up putting in, and they didn't really answer. On closer inspection last night they used bearings that have oiling holes for #2 and #3 positions (should only be #3), and a couple have some knicks and divots. They're used. Wonderful.

-I also noticed the coolant drain wasn't removed from the block. I took it out and of course there was a wall of gunk behind it. It would have been nice if they had removed that before hot tanking it.

-The press fit dipstick tube is missing entirely.

-I asked them to remove a broken bolt in the side cover gasket surface. It's still there.

-I also realized that I gave them new pistons for balancing, but never got my old pistons back. I would like to have those.

So now what? My local dealership is getting cam bearings and a dipstick tube overnighted. I'll have them in the morning. I guess I'm gonna have to take the block back for the cam bearings since I don't have the infrastructure to remedy that. May as well have them address the broken bolt too. I'll use brake cleaner and an air chuck to blow out the coolant passages. I have a new drain plug, the nicer 70 Series one. Hopefully they can find my old pistons, too.

What would y'all do? Take it back? Suck it up and run it?

I have a 2F that is getting slowly cannibalized that has the dipstick on it if you end up needing one. I am in the area if you need it dropped off.

In terms of next steps I would take it back especially if you was documented that you wanted that broken bolt taken out. I suspect you want this engine done ASAP, but you have new parts in bound and a couple extra days or weeks will seem like nothing in a years time and you'll know have done everything to have that engine set up correctly.

 

[CruiserTrash]

I have a 2F that is getting slowly cannibalized that has the dipstick on it if you end up needing one. I am in the area if you need it dropped off.

In terms of next steps I would take it back especially if you was documented that you wanted that broken bolt taken out. I suspect you want this engine done ASAP, but you have new parts in bound and a couple extra days or weeks will seem like nothing in a years time and you'll know have done everything to have that engine set up correctly.

Correct: I would like to assemble and install the motor ASAP, but my goal with the motor is 250k+ miles. In the big picture small delays are fine. I think that's a good thing to remember right now. All parts are on hand and I'm 100% ready to go on building this thing. Unfortunately, this shop is "old school" in that everything is a conversation. They don't email, there's no list agreed upon up front. In addition to me pointing out the broken bolt and asking if they could remove it ... why wouldn't they just go ahead and do it? They were all over the block with magnaflux, certainly they saw it. You get to charge a couple more bucks for the labor and you lower your chances of having anything come back, it seems like an easy choice to just extract it. In other lines of work I've done I'm big on "no go backs" - going back to fix something you already "finished" is a time suck and money killer. Do it right the first time and move on to the next job, leaving a happy customer behind.

I'm going to look at the cam bearings under better light this evening and really assess their condition. New Toyota ones arrive tomorrow. I've already decided to let my head cool a little bit and not call them today.

 

[FJBen]

Absolutely would take back. If those cam bearings are used, that’s total shoddy work.

Personally I would be a little concerned. I would absolutely have them replace those with the correct specs new ones. This should even be a question or cost to you at all.

As for not removing all plugs before hot tanking, sloppy work. Document this all. It should or have gunk for you to clean out.

The bolt, I agree should have just been pulled. Especially if they pointed it out after you told them…

The dipstick missing is pretty annoying but not a deal breaker for fighting with them.

I would ask for the pistons back.




I know you’ve been on my thread, but I got really lucky with a crotchety old machine shop guy with a huge attention to detail. He pointed out mistakes previous shops made and didn’t charge me extra to fix it, just said bring me the new parts and we will make it right. He hated 1/2 @ssed work.


I see people talk about problems big and small they’ve had with machine shops and it usually never ends well. Engines don’t last, break quickly and cause so much more problems.

Correct it now, and double check all of the work against specs

 

[CruiserTrash]

What say ye on these cam bearings? @OGBeno ?

Partially covered passage … could be worse?

Holes but no oil passage?

Various wear patterns, pitting, and cuts…

Much ado about nothing? Cause for concern? I initially gave them a set of OEM cam bearings, they claim I never did. They couldn’t give me a straight answer on what they actually did install.

I’m my frustration I painted the block last night.

 

[PapaGiamati]

They couldn’t give me a straight answer on what they actually did install.

There's something to be said about honesty and accuracy when it comes to finding a "good" shop...this doesn't sound like one...

I hope it all works out in your favour.

 

[OGBeno]

Replace.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Replace.

These are supposedly “replaced” by the machine shop. Time to have an awkward phone conversation. I don’t know my ass from my elbows on engine rebuild stuff, but they sure look used to me.

 

[OGBeno]

These are supposedly “replaced” by the machine shop. Time to have an awkward phone conversation. I don’t know my ass from my elbows on engine rebuild stuff, but they sure look used to me.

Those do not look like new bearings. At all.

 

[CruiserTrash]

This is more like it


The cam bearings are different sizes

Oil Groove in #1

Single strips of metal rolled to shape and joined

Joins visible on the bearing surface

Bearing surface - no mars or wear

All bearings have 1-2 oil holes. #3 with the oil passage on the block has 3 holes in the bearing.

Picked up a dipstick tube while I was at the dealership.