TWT -- The Wrenching Thread (3 Viewers)

[roadstr6]

So I posted in the 60 section but I figured I might as well post up here in case I need to ask for some local help to come by. (Don't worry I pay in lunch and beer).

I noticed the other day was while I was driving coming to a stop with the clutch disengaged I hear a sound as I slow coming from what I feel is the tranny hump that sounds like a whoo whoo whoo whoo whoo.... slowing as I come to a stop. Best way I can think to describe it is sounds like a large standing fan as it comes to a stop.

Some stuff from searching gave me
-Wheel bearings
-Tcase

Since I'm rebuilding the knuckles and replacing fluids. I'll know soon enough if that's the issue but could the issue be from a drive shaft or a u joint not being greased or would that be more of a vibration right?

Probably the Tcase. Check the fluids in the trans and transfer case. If they are okay, it will probably be fine. If you find that the trans is overfilled and the Tcase is low, your trans/tcase seal has gone bad and the tcase is pumping fluid up into the trans (common). The long term fix is a tcase rebuild. The short to medium term fix is a hose that connects the fill plugs of the trans and transfer case to equalize the oil.

FWIW I just rebuilt my tcase and it still gives me the old woo woo. I think it must be the clearances on the gear teeth with 33 years and 200K plus miles of abuse.

 

[ROBsSON]

Probably the Tcase. Check the fluids in the trans and transfer case. If they are okay, it will probably be fine. If you find that the trans is overfilled and the Tcase is low, your trans/tcase seal has gone bad and the tcase is pumping fluid up into the trans (common). The long term fix is a tcase rebuild. The short to medium term fix is a hose that connects the fill plugs of the trans and transfer case to equalize the oil.

FWIW I just rebuilt my tcase and it still gives me the old woo woo. I think it must be the clearances on the gear teeth with 33 years and 200K plus miles of abuse.

Ok Ill check them out I'm likely going to just change the fluid in both anyways and then see how it goes if I need to rebuild it maybe I can just get an Orion or swap in some 4:1 gears to replace the old 298k originals lol

 

[S4Cruiser]

Question...I've ended up drilling holes here and there for mounting s*** to things like inner fender liner etc. what should I put on the bare metal from drilling the holes to prevent rust?

 

[roadstr6]

Question...I've ended up drilling holes here and there for mounting s*** to things like inner fender liner etc. what should I put on the bare metal from drilling the holes to prevent rust?

I like to keep a quart of oil based Rustoleum around for stuff like that. I just use a small hobby brush and dab the Rustoleum into the holes. Mineral spirits cleans up the brush and any drips that may occur.

 

[pkniland]

Installed quarter panel accessory mount and HEO awning

 

[stevezero]

Since we didnt head over to the mtns this weekend, I spent Saturday modifying my ARB Awning mount on my teardrop trailer. I lowered it down about 2 inches, and installed a different outside light for the lower clearance. Also hit it with the pressure washer to get it cleaned up.

Patrick, I really like that awning setup. looks great.

 

[pkniland]

Since we didnt head over to the mtns this weekend, I spent Saturday modifying my ARB Awning mount on my teardrop trailer. I lowered it down about 2 inches, and installed a different outside light for the lower clearance. Also hit it with the pressure washer to get it cleaned up.

Patrick, I really like that awning setup. looks great.

Thanks Steve, very happy with the way it turned out

 

[fourtrax]

Ok, So i sold the Tacoma and got me a Tundra. one of the first things to go was the smaller then factory muffler and tail pipe the PO had installed to pass inspection just before he sold it to me. I was wanting to do a cat back in stainless exhaust and after some research i settled on a MBRP dual 2.5" into a muffler and 3" out the rear corner, as I have always preferred a good single exhaust over dual pipes. cut the old pipes off installed the new one in about 45 minutes. started up, sounds great, a tad louder then then neighbors might have wanted but, oh well. only bad think is that i have this deafening drone in the cab from 1800 -2000 rpms, which happen to be both the rpm for normal acceleration and for cruising 68-75 mph. so i had to find a solution. after some surfing I happened across a thread on Helmholtz branch (1/4 wave) resonator ( also called a J-pipe) sounded a little out there but it had some science (math) to it and i was intrigued.

For v8 engines drone usually starts right at 2000 RPMs.

for a general rule of thumb
V8s fire 4 times per revolution.
6 cylinders fire 3 times per revolution.
4 cylinders fire 2 times per revolution.
RPM is in minutes, so again divide by 60 to reduce to seconds.

We also need to know the speed of sound. It varies with temperature, but is generally accepted to be 1160ft/sec @ 100F
( i went with 100F because the branch pipe was capped off at the end and there is really no Gas Flow it is only used for the sound wave).

Speed of sound
90F = 1150 fps
100F = 1160 fps
110F = 1170 fps
120F = 1180 fps

Math to determine frequency (f) of the drone:

f = RPM * pulses/rev * (1/60)
f = 2000 rev/min * 4 pulses/rev * (1/60)
f = 133.34 pulses/second = 133.34Hz

Math aside i still had variables i wasn't sure how to quantify, what would the temperature actually be of the air in the branch pipe, was the frequency coming from the exhaust pulses, a vibration, or body panel?

I download an app called SPECTRIOD to my smart phone and ran it while driving I found I had two sound waves that were in the drone. the starting frequency was 120hz at about 1800 rpms and at about 1950 rpms there was a second frequency of 129HZ. I also learned that the 1/4 wave resonator worked in a pretty narrow band. The theory is to reintroduce a sound wave into the exhaust that is 180° out of phase with the drone frequency. This is what the 1/4 wave resonator tube accomplishes. The resonator tube needs to be exactly one-fourth the length of the full resonant wave. The sound wave enters the resonator tube, bounces off the capped end and re-enters the exhaust stream. At this point the amplitude is exactly opposite of the drone frequency and will cancel out the drone.

for the first frequency 129HZ
1160ft per sec / 129 Hz = 8.992 ft
8.992 ft / 4 = 2.24 ft
convert to inches 2.24 ft * 12 = 26.97 inches

for the second frequency 120HZ
1160ft per sec / 120 Hz = 9.667 ft
9.667 ft / 4 = 2.41 ft
convert to inches 2.41 ft * 12 = 29 inches

I decided to split the difference and opted to go with a 28" length of pipe for my resonator.
I want to the local exhaust shop in Apex, cause they had stainless. we cut a 2.5" hole in the 3" tailpipe after the muffler at the top of the hump over the axle. we then welded a 28" piece of 2.5" pipe 90 degrees off the tailpipe running it toward the other side of the truck parallel to the axle between the axle and the spare tire. we capped it and secured the end with a hanger.

3 things that are key to making this work once you find the length.
1. the resonator must be 90 degrees off the flow (after you enter the resonator tube you can go straight, curves, spirals, what ever)
2. any bends need to be mandrel, if you kink crush or distort the pipe you will distort the sound wave.
3. the end of the pipe need a cap that is flat and at 90 degrees to the pipe.

I was blown away on how well this actually works, i have ZERO drone and the exhaust level in the cab is actually about 7db less. it still has a growl and all the volume if i step on it but, cruising around and on the highway it is just background.

Something to think about if you have a little drone in the cab.

** to be fair i have summarized and combined information i have found on multiple post throughout the web on 1/4 wave resonators. none of the sites i visited had what i thought was the complete detail to make this happen.

 

[Rice]

Ok, So i sold the Tacoma and got me a Tundra. one of the first things to go was the smaller then factory muffler and tail pipe the PO had installed to pass inspection just before he sold it to me. I was wanting to do a cat back in stainless exhaust and after some research i settled on a MBRP dual 2.5" into a muffler and 3" out the rear corner, as I have always preferred a good single exhaust over dual pipes. cut the old pipes off installed the new one in about 45 minutes. started up, sounds great, a tad louder then then neighbors might have wanted but, oh well. only bad think is that i have this deafening drone in the cab from 1800 -2000 rpms, which happen to be both the rpm for normal acceleration and for cruising 68-75 mph. so i had to find a solution. after some surfing I happened across a thread on Helmholtz branch (1/4 wave) resonator ( also called a J-pipe) sounded a little out there but it had some science (math) to and i was intrigued.

For v8 engines drone usually starts right at 2000 RPMs.

for a general rule of thumb
V8s fire 4 times per revolution.
6 cylinders fire 3 times per revolution.
4 cylinders fire 2 times per revolution.
RPM is in minutes, so again divide by 60 to reduce to seconds.

We also need to know the speed of sound. It varies with temperature, but is generally accepted to be 1160ft/sec @ 100F
( i went with 100F because the branch pipe was capped off at the end and there is really no Gas Flow it is only used for the sound wave).

Speed of sound
90F = 1150 fps
100F = 1160 fps
110F = 1170 fps
120F = 1180 fps

Math to determine frequency (f) of the drone:

f = RPM * pulses/rev * (1/60)
f = 2000 rev/min * 4 pulses/rev * (1/60)
f = 133.34 pulses/second = 133.34Hz

Math aside i still had variables i wasn't sure how to quantify, what would the temperature actually be of the air in the branch pipe, was the frequency coming from the exhaust pulses, a vibration, or body panel?

I download an app called SPECTRIOD to my smart phone and ran it while driving I found I had to sound waves that were in the drone. the starting frequency was 120hz at about 1800 rpms and at about 1950 rpms there was a second frequency of 129HZ. I learned that the 1/4 wave resonator worked in a pretty narrow band. The theory is to reintroduce a sound wave into the exhaust that is 180° out of phase with the drone frequency. This is what the 1/4 wave resonator tube accomplishes. The resonator tube needs to be exactly one-fourth the length of the full resonant wave. The sound wave enters the resonator tube, bounces off the capped end and re-enters the exhaust stream. At this point the amplitude is exactly opposite of the drone frequency and will cancel out the drone.

for the first frequency 129HZ
1160ft per sec / 129 Hz = 8.992 ft
8.992 ft / 4 = 2.24 ft
convert to inches 2.24 ft * 12 = 26.97 inches

for the second frequency 120HZ
1160ft per sec / 120 Hz = 9.667 ft
9.667 ft / 4 = 2.41 ft
convert to inches 2.41 ft * 12 = 29 inches

I decided to split the difference and opted to go with a 28" length of pipe for my resonator.
I want to the local exhaust shop in Apex, cause they had stainless. we cut a 2.5" hole in the 3" tailpipe after the muffler at the top of the hump over the axle. we then welded a 28" piece of 2.5" pipe 90 degrees off the tailpipe running it toward the other side of the truck parallel to the axle between the axle and the spare tire. we capped it and secured the end with a hanger.

3 things that are key to making this work once you find the length.
1. the resonator must be 90 degrees of the flow (after you enter the resonator tube you can go straight, curves, spirals, what ever)
2. any bends need to be mandrel, if you kink crush or distort the pipe you will distort the sound wave.
3. the end of the pipe need a cap that is flat and at 90 degrees to the pipe.

I was blown away on how well this actually works, i have ZERO drone and the exhaust level in the cab is actually about 7db less. it still has a growl and all the volume if i step on it but, cruising around and on the highway it is just background.

i'll add some pictures this weekend. but something to think about if you have a little drone in the cab.

** to be fair i have summarized and combined information i have found on multiple post throughout the web on 1/4 wave resonators. none of the sights i visited had what i thought was the complete detail to make this happen.

Nice application of destructive interference. A question involving a similar scenario as yours was on the AP physics exam not too many years ago. (And, coincidentally, I have some exhaust resonance of my own I need to address)

 

[AJR]

Ok, So i sold the Tacoma and got me a Tundra. one of the first things to go was the smaller then factory muffler and tail pipe the PO had installed to pass inspection just before he sold it to me. I was wanting to do a cat back in stainless exhaust and after some research i settled on a MBRP dual 2.5" into a muffler and 3" out the rear corner, as I have always preferred a good single exhaust over dual pipes. cut the old pipes off installed the new one in about 45 minutes. started up, sounds great, a tad louder then then neighbors might have wanted but, oh well. only bad think is that i have this deafening drone in the cab from 1800 -2000 rpms, which happen to be both the rpm for normal acceleration and for cruising 68-75 mph. so i had to find a solution. after some surfing I happened across a thread on Helmholtz branch (1/4 wave) resonator ( also called a J-pipe) sounded a little out there but it had some science (math) to and i was intrigued.

For v8 engines drone usually starts right at 2000 RPMs.

for a general rule of thumb
V8s fire 4 times per revolution.
6 cylinders fire 3 times per revolution.
4 cylinders fire 2 times per revolution.
RPM is in minutes, so again divide by 60 to reduce to seconds.

We also need to know the speed of sound. It varies with temperature, but is generally accepted to be 1160ft/sec @ 100F
( i went with 100F because the branch pipe was capped off at the end and there is really no Gas Flow it is only used for the sound wave).

Speed of sound
90F = 1150 fps
100F = 1160 fps
110F = 1170 fps
120F = 1180 fps

Math to determine frequency (f) of the drone:

f = RPM * pulses/rev * (1/60)
f = 2000 rev/min * 4 pulses/rev * (1/60)
f = 133.34 pulses/second = 133.34Hz

Math aside i still had variables i wasn't sure how to quantify, what would the temperature actually be of the air in the branch pipe, was the frequency coming from the exhaust pulses, a vibration, or body panel?

I download an app called SPECTRIOD to my smart phone and ran it while driving I found I had two sound waves that were in the drone. the starting frequency was 120hz at about 1800 rpms and at about 1950 rpms there was a second frequency of 129HZ. I learned that the 1/4 wave resonator worked in a pretty narrow band. The theory is to reintroduce a sound wave into the exhaust that is 180° out of phase with the drone frequency. This is what the 1/4 wave resonator tube accomplishes. The resonator tube needs to be exactly one-fourth the length of the full resonant wave. The sound wave enters the resonator tube, bounces off the capped end and re-enters the exhaust stream. At this point the amplitude is exactly opposite of the drone frequency and will cancel out the drone.

for the first frequency 129HZ
1160ft per sec / 129 Hz = 8.992 ft
8.992 ft / 4 = 2.24 ft
convert to inches 2.24 ft * 12 = 26.97 inches

for the second frequency 120HZ
1160ft per sec / 120 Hz = 9.667 ft
9.667 ft / 4 = 2.41 ft
convert to inches 2.41 ft * 12 = 29 inches

I decided to split the difference and opted to go with a 28" length of pipe for my resonator.
I want to the local exhaust shop in Apex, cause they had stainless. we cut a 2.5" hole in the 3" tailpipe after the muffler at the top of the hump over the axle. we then welded a 28" piece of 2.5" pipe 90 degrees off the tailpipe running it toward the other side of the truck parallel to the axle between the axle and the spare tire. we capped it and secured the end with a hanger.

3 things that are key to making this work once you find the length.
1. the resonator must be 90 degrees of the flow (after you enter the resonator tube you can go straight, curves, spirals, what ever)
2. any bends need to be mandrel, if you kink crush or distort the pipe you will distort the sound wave.
3. the end of the pipe need a cap that is flat and at 90 degrees to the pipe.

I was blown away on how well this actually works, i have ZERO drone and the exhaust level in the cab is actually about 7db less. it still has a growl and all the volume if i step on it but, cruising around and on the highway it is just background.

i'll add some pictures this weekend. but something to think about if you have a little drone in the cab.

** to be fair i have summarized and combined information i have found on multiple post throughout the web on 1/4 wave resonators. none of the sights i visited had what i thought was the complete detail to make this happen.

Whoa. I think would have lived with the drone or put a stock exhaust on. Pretty awesome. What did the guys at the exhaust shop think of your math?

 

[fourtrax]

I think they thought i was a little crazy at first but, i sold them on it and i had cash.

 

[roadstr6]

Incredible! Now that's using the old noggin!

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Ok, So i sold the Tacoma and got me a Tundra. one of the first things to go was the smaller then factory muffler and tail pipe the PO had installed to pass inspection just before he sold it to me. I was wanting to do a cat back in stainless exhaust and after some research i settled on a MBRP dual 2.5" into a muffler and 3" out the rear corner, as I have always preferred a good single exhaust over dual pipes. cut the old pipes off installed the new one in about 45 minutes. started up, sounds great, a tad louder then then neighbors might have wanted but, oh well. only bad think is that i have this deafening drone in the cab from 1800 -2000 rpms, which happen to be both the rpm for normal acceleration and for cruising 68-75 mph. so i had to find a solution. after some surfing I happened across a thread on Helmholtz branch (1/4 wave) resonator ( also called a J-pipe) sounded a little out there but it had some science (math) to it and i was intrigued.

For v8 engines drone usually starts right at 2000 RPMs.

for a general rule of thumb
V8s fire 4 times per revolution.
6 cylinders fire 3 times per revolution.
4 cylinders fire 2 times per revolution.
RPM is in minutes, so again divide by 60 to reduce to seconds.

We also need to know the speed of sound. It varies with temperature, but is generally accepted to be 1160ft/sec @ 100F
( i went with 100F because the branch pipe was capped off at the end and there is really no Gas Flow it is only used for the sound wave).

Speed of sound
90F = 1150 fps
100F = 1160 fps
110F = 1170 fps
120F = 1180 fps

Math to determine frequency (f) of the drone:

f = RPM * pulses/rev * (1/60)
f = 2000 rev/min * 4 pulses/rev * (1/60)
f = 133.34 pulses/second = 133.34Hz

Math aside i still had variables i wasn't sure how to quantify, what would the temperature actually be of the air in the branch pipe, was the frequency coming from the exhaust pulses, a vibration, or body panel?

I download an app called SPECTRIOD to my smart phone and ran it while driving I found I had two sound waves that were in the drone. the starting frequency was 120hz at about 1800 rpms and at about 1950 rpms there was a second frequency of 129HZ. I also learned that the 1/4 wave resonator worked in a pretty narrow band. The theory is to reintroduce a sound wave into the exhaust that is 180° out of phase with the drone frequency. This is what the 1/4 wave resonator tube accomplishes. The resonator tube needs to be exactly one-fourth the length of the full resonant wave. The sound wave enters the resonator tube, bounces off the capped end and re-enters the exhaust stream. At this point the amplitude is exactly opposite of the drone frequency and will cancel out the drone.

for the first frequency 129HZ
1160ft per sec / 129 Hz = 8.992 ft
8.992 ft / 4 = 2.24 ft
convert to inches 2.24 ft * 12 = 26.97 inches

for the second frequency 120HZ
1160ft per sec / 120 Hz = 9.667 ft
9.667 ft / 4 = 2.41 ft
convert to inches 2.41 ft * 12 = 29 inches

I decided to split the difference and opted to go with a 28" length of pipe for my resonator.
I want to the local exhaust shop in Apex, cause they had stainless. we cut a 2.5" hole in the 3" tailpipe after the muffler at the top of the hump over the axle. we then welded a 28" piece of 2.5" pipe 90 degrees off the tailpipe running it toward the other side of the truck parallel to the axle between the axle and the spare tire. we capped it and secured the end with a hanger.

3 things that are key to making this work once you find the length.
1. the resonator must be 90 degrees off the flow (after you enter the resonator tube you can go straight, curves, spirals, what ever)
2. any bends need to be mandrel, if you kink crush or distort the pipe you will distort the sound wave.
3. the end of the pipe need a cap that is flat and at 90 degrees to the pipe.

I was blown away on how well this actually works, i have ZERO drone and the exhaust level in the cab is actually about 7db less. it still has a growl and all the volume if i step on it but, cruising around and on the highway it is just background.

i'll add some pictures this weekend. but something to think about if you have a little drone in the cab.

** to be fair i have summarized and combined information i have found on multiple post throughout the web on 1/4 wave resonators. none of the sites i visited had what i thought was the complete detail to make this happen.

Whoa.

In your applicaiton, you had a perpendicular branch tube from the main tailpipe, not a J-tube? I've never heard of this before your post, but it looks awesome!!

Problem - Exhaust drone: Solution side branch, aka 1/4 wave resonator, or Helmholtz resonator| Grassroots Motorsports forum |

Now show us some pics of your new Tundra

 

[fourtrax]

Here is the tundra, sorry for not properly introducing "Sulley" earlier.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

!!!!!!!!! Beautiful!! Congrats!!!

 

[SFROMAN]

Trying to order parts for the maintenance, regearing, locking of the Lx450 axles. Already ordered the rebuild kit. Want to upgrade brakes while I’m at it. What is everybody upgrading to? Rotors? Pads? Brake lines?

I was just going to go with Toyota oem parts. Unless someone has real world experience with something that is actually better.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

100 series pads. That's the only upgrade you need!

 

[SFROMAN]

I read about the 100 series pads. Does not improve brake performance. They just last longer. So might be worth going that route.

 

[jfz80]

FWIW i was not able to run the 100 pads with new rotors and old calipers even after removing the shim. The calipers must have worn into a happy range and would not open wide enough to run the 100 pads. New calipers at same time and it might not have been an issue.

 

[jdayment]

Lately I have been hearing good things about performance of the Terrain Tamer pads and rotors some good feedback in the 100 section I havent seen much of them mentioned in the 80's forum but they offer and HD pad and Slotted/Drilled Rotors