Trying to get 4spd transmission dropped from a 2f - stuck (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Aug 22, 2024
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Location
sandy, utah
Like the title says, I'm stuck. And I'm a little apprehensive because I head home on Sunday and am hoping I can get this all done.

I have some leaks I want to try to fix before parking it on a driveway. I'm going to cover the driveway anyway, but I promised the wife I'd try. Today I started dropping the transmission and got stuck. The 4speed has the xfer case and PTO on the drivers side of the transmission. I was able to get it pushed back from the bell housing but the rear of the pto is getting stuck on the frame crossmember.

HOw do I get this beast out? I'm thinking of getting the engine hoist next door and putting straps under the transmission to cradle it and drop the rear end to see if I can get it below that crossmember and then back it out at an angle - thoughts? What are the tools to get?
I'm replacing the rear main, the oil pan gasket and hoping that'll slow these leaks down.

Feel a little out of my comfort zone - but recognize the rite of passage... Would love encouragement and advice.
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Did you pull the bell housing ear mounts and loosen the front motor mounts? If you do that, and keep a floor jack under the rear of the motor, you should be able to slowly lower the jack, tip the motor back slightly and allow you to slip the transmission out.

From your 4th photo, the bell housing mounts are still there with the hockey pucks. Start there.

Not sure this is the easiest or perfect way, and not sure how the PTO impacts this. But seeing as I’m here first, I figured I’d share how I’ve done this a couple times.
 
For me, in my 72 with 3 on the floor it is 10 times easier to pull the engine/tranny/transfer in one piece, same going back in. I can pull it in 3 hr by myself, start to finish. Take the starter off, gives more room to wiggle the engine assembly. Remove the radiator and tip the bib down. Unhook all the stuff, electrical/fuel,coolant.... Lift the engine assembly some, push rig back rinse/repeat. I now have a HF tilt adjustment bar that should help, plus a very nice A frame on wheels with a chainfalls that has a truck on the I beam.

I once just dropped the tranny/transfer (to do the clutch) and I wasn't boy enough to put it back in by myself, spent 6 hours trying. So I pulled the engine, put the tranny/transfer on and installed the unit in 3 hours.

I don't have a pto (sadly) so I don't how much that would affect the clearances. I would try it with it on, but its a few bolts to remove it (cover the hole) if it gives you issues.

Also I remove all the linkages and wires before I start. I mark/label the bags of parts (nuts/bolts...) and I take pictures now. A second person makes it go better - hard to be running the chainfalls and seeing what's going on at the transfer end at the same time.
 
If you drop the back end of the engine, be sure to watch everything up front for clearances as you lower it.

For putting the trans back on, I cut the heads off a couple bolts and use those as dowels to guide it back in place.
 
clutch question: As this is a 73 crusher and came with the 3spd, time has passed and the 3spd was swapped for the 4spd. Props to FJ40Jim for recognizing the misalignment between the old slave cylinder mount and the current fork. Here's the link to that post - "Question about clutch slave rod, master/slave assembly, and swapped transmission - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/question-about-clutch-slave-rod-master-slave-assembly-and-swapped-transmission.1053490/" very helpful. In that same post, Coolerman has his rig mocked up but with a VERY different fork, one that sticks out further and looks like it aligns properly.

Now to totally make things interesting, in this video by Dirt Dauber Garage, the slave is mounted on the PASSENGER side, and it looks like the fork I currently have. But I share the alignment issue discussed in the previously mentioned post. In order to make the slave work on the passenger side, I just imagine that the hydraulic hose from master to slave is a LOT longer, and where would it route? up behind the engine against the firewall?

Which way should I go from here? Move the slave to the passenger side? I see holes on the bellhousing ear (is that what it's called?) that look like they would align magically with the slave. That seems like that would be pretty slick, and I like the idea of making the slave sit closer to the fork so there is more room for aligning the acorn nut... my current setup is stretched to the absolute maximum in order to still actuate the release fork.

OR, swap out the fork? Do we need a different push rod (longer to accommodate the relatively further away position of the slave cylinder)?


2025-03-16 11_17_38-Part 10 - 1977 FJ40 Land Cruiser Build - Replacing the Clutch, Main Seal, ...png

 
Below is an old thread of mine that might have some answers. I went from a slave on the left on my 1974 to a slave on the right. I used a hard line I purchased used (cruiserparts.net I believe) to route the plumbing like factory. This fixed several issues I was having.

 
Below is an old thread of mine that might have some answers. I went from a slave on the left on my 1974 to a slave on the right. I used a hard line I purchased used (cruiserparts.net I believe) to route the plumbing like factory. This fixed several issues I was having.

that makes a ton of sense.
I've got a 65" hose in my cart from amazon and I'll get that SC moved over.

A little later tonight I'll see if I can lower the back of the engine. I'm assuming that the "ears" just get taken off the side of the bell housing? Or do you undo the engine mounts from the frame?
 
I took the ears off the bell housing I think.

Watch the front mounts, radiator, and fan.
 
I placed my bottle jack under the oil pan to help raise/lower the engine. I unbolted both the "ears" for the bellhousing. This will allow you to tilt the engine back to clear the cross member. Loosen the front motor mounts. Also used a cherry picker to hoist the entire trans/t-case. Loosen radiator. Loosen your exhaust pipe from the muffler, tail pipe (otherwise you will bend the entire assembly when you tilt it). Remove parking brake cable from dash. Remove spedo cable from t-case. Disconnect the 4x4 linkage if you have it connected via vaccum diaphragm. In this Pic, I also have a transmission jack holding up the t-case. I only used it to help when installing everything back into the Fj40.
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And also, can't you just remove the pto gearbox from the t-case? I thought it just unbolts and you wiggle it off.
 
clutch question: As this is a 73 crusher and came with the 3spd, time has passed and the 3spd was swapped for the 4spd. Props to FJ40Jim for recognizing the misalignment between the old slave cylinder mount and the current fork. Here's the link to that post - "Question about clutch slave rod, master/slave assembly, and swapped transmission - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/question-about-clutch-slave-rod-master-slave-assembly-and-swapped-transmission.1053490/" very helpful. In that same post, Coolerman has his rig mocked up but with a VERY different fork, one that sticks out further and looks like it aligns properly.

Now to totally make things interesting, in this video by Dirt Dauber Garage, the slave is mounted on the PASSENGER side, and it looks like the fork I currently have. But I share the alignment issue discussed in the previously mentioned post. In order to make the slave work on the passenger side, I just imagine that the hydraulic hose from master to slave is a LOT longer, and where would it route? up behind the engine against the firewall?

Which way should I go from here? Move the slave to the passenger side? I see holes on the bellhousing ear (is that what it's called?) that look like they would align magically with the slave. That seems like that would be pretty slick, and I like the idea of making the slave sit closer to the fork so there is more room for aligning the acorn nut... my current setup is stretched to the absolute maximum in order to still actuate the release fork.

OR, swap out the fork? Do we need a different push rod (longer to accommodate the relatively further away position of the slave cylinder)?

View attachment 3862273

Do you have a diaphragm style clutch or 3 finger clutch. The clutch and flywheel determine which fork you need, along with other bits. Which side it’s mounted on doesn’t necessarily matter, just need all the pieces of the same puzzle to work properly.
 
Edit : disregard. I thought your clutch fork was bent but looks like the actual 4 speed style fork has a bend to it.


Also, seems kinda weird, but OPs clutch fork looks bent. Unless it was the picture format of the photo he took that somehow deformed the image, but it looks like it's bent "inward" and points toward the front. Other than that, looks like he has a stamped steel 3 speed fork. Hopefully the previous owner left the 3 speed pressure plate and flywheel in there as well and didn't mix up parts with a 4 speed clutch instead. If you're able to, stick with the 3 speed flywheel since it has a heavier outer ring and helps keep the engine from stalling when crawling over rocks in 4-low. The 4 speed style diaphragm pressure plate cltuch assembly is nicer to drive tho. Pros and cons.

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I placed my bottle jack under the oil pan to help raise/lower the engine. I unbolted both the "ears" for the bellhousing. This will allow you to tilt the engine back to clear the cross member. Loosen the front motor mounts. Also used a cherry picker to hoist the entire trans/t-case. Loosen radiator. Loosen your exhaust pipe from the muffler, tail pipe (otherwise you will bend the entire assembly when you tilt it). Remove parking brake cable from dash. Remove spedo cable from t-case. Disconnect the 4x4 linkage if you have it connected via vaccum diaphragm. In this Pic, I also have a transmission jack holding up the t-case. I only used it to help when installing everything back into the Fj40.
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And also, can't you just remove the pto gearbox from the t-case? I thought it just unbolts and you wiggle it off.

I placed my bottle jack under the oil pan to help raise/lower the engine. I unbolted both the "ears" for the bellhousing. This will allow you to tilt the engine back to clear the cross member. Loosen the front motor mounts. Also used a cherry picker to hoist the entire trans/t-case. Loosen radiator. Loosen your exhaust pipe from the muffler, tail pipe (otherwise you will bend the entire assembly when you tilt it). Remove parking brake cable from dash. Remove spedo cable from t-case. Disconnect the 4x4 linkage if you have it connected via vaccum diaphragm. In this Pic, I also have a transmission jack holding up the t-case. I only used it to help when installing everything back into the Fj40.
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View attachment 3862740


And also, can't you just remove the pto gearbox from the t-case? I thought it just unbolts and you wiggle it off.
I've never tried to take the PTO off - work looking into though - has anyone pulled a PTO off? Easy/hard?
 
Do you have a diaphragm style clutch or 3 finger clutch. The clutch and flywheel determine which fork you need, along with other bits. Which side it’s mounted on doesn’t necessarily matter, just need all the pieces of the same puzzle to work properly.
I couldn't tell you the difference between diaphragm or 3 finger clutch.
 
I couldn't tell you the difference between diaphragm or 3 finger clutch.
The first step is admitting….

Stole these pics from the internet. Look in where the transmission input shaft came out of the bellhousing and you’ll either see 3 “fingers” or the diaphragm style that is like a bunch of pie pieces, for lack of better explanation.

3 finger

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Diaphragm
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The first step is admitting….

Stole these pics from the internet. Look in where the transmission input shaft came out of the bellhousing and you’ll either see 3 “fingers” or the diaphragm style that is like a bunch of pie pieces, for lack of better explanation.

3 finger

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Diaphragm
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definitely the bottom picture - the diaphragm.
Still hoping that land cruiser angels bless me one time and the SC, fork, etc. all line up. I DO have to move the pivot point to the other side of the bell housing, but I can do that once I get it off tomorrow.
I'm feeling a little more optimistic seeing that you spin the flywheel to loosen the bolts to get the pressure plate off, thus exposing the massive fly wheel bolts, and with those off, I'm even closer to getting at the rear main. I may not even have to take the bell housing off!

Though I do plan on doing the sump, so I probably do need to get the bellhousing off. Right now the engine is on floor jack. I could put the bolts back in the rear driver motor mount to help hold it while I'm doing the sump.

and the winch, i need to get that off so i can lean the headlight assembly forward to get at the timing cover... that seems like a beast.
 
If you're doing front and rear seals on the engine, it would be easier to just pull the whole unit. Big job that tends to snowball since "while you're in there" tends to happen. Drain all the oil from trans and transfer first before you pull it or remove the pto drive too if you haven't already.
 
Pull the PTO housing and you should have just enough clearance. Last time I pulled my H42 like this I used a come along from above to hoist it up slightly then wiggled it until it came loose. Then swung it backwards until I had room to drop it down. I didn't touch the engine mounts. Putting it back in was harder from underneath than getting out. Took forever to line up, T case weight wants to rotate the assembly so I used a jack to support it. It's a bit more work but it is much easier to stab the transmission with the engine out and put it all back in as a unit. Just saying as I have done it both ways. Good luck!
 
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I've never tried to take the PTO off - work looking into though - has anyone pulled a PTO off? Easy/hard?
Pulling the PTO off is very easy. Just remove the shifting linkage first then drain the oil from transfer case and PTO. Remove about 6 bolts and it will fall off nothing falls out or apart.
 

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