Trim Packers / Rear Spacers who’s running them? (2 Viewers)

[TLC2013]

Been fiddling with a lean that has been present when my 2013 LC was all stock. And now with the 45mm Tough Dog lift it is much more noticeable. The rear driver side is about 1 1/4“ lower then the rear passenger side. The fronts are about 1/2” so not concerned with that measurement.

After reading though the immense amount of threads discussing “lean” and exhausting all the methods mentioned here with no success I am considering adding a trim packer (spacer) to the rear driver side to attempt to level it out a bit.

Anyone have experience with installing a trim packer or spacer on just one side to level things out? Curious to know if this will cause any problems with the suspension and KDSS. I’d rather not open up a can of works chasing a lean but if it’s possible to add say 10mm to 15mms to the driver side without ill effects I like to do pursue this option.

 

[acruisinf]

Definitely watching this for the replies. I just ordered a 5mm OME packer to address a 1.25” lean.
I think from a previous thread I remember @TeCKis300 to be the trim packer advocate to address the lean issue.

 

[Fisher23]

PM me if you want them .. I do have a set of the 10mm new laying around.

Some guy install them to level out the droop on the one side.

 

[TLC2013]

Cool let us know how the 5mm packer works out. I read that OME says up to a 15mm packer is acceptable but this may have been referencing an 80 series LC. Not sure how the 200 with its KDSS fits into this equation.

 

[Nola622]

Thats a lot of lean - what rear springs are you running currently? Are you sure they are on the correct sides and not swapped, creating the lean?

 

[kcjaz]

Thats a lot of lean - what rear springs are you running currently? Are you sure they are on the correct sides and not swapped, creating the lean?

Even if they are on the correct sides, have you tried swaping them to see what happens? I also wonder if a KDSS system flush and refil would do anything. The issue with that is the cost of having that done at a dealer. I've had that done (self inflicted stupidity) and it was something like $800. I just wonder if there is something wrong with the KDSS that just opening the two valves is not working to level it within spec. Adding a spacer to one side to fix a 1 1/4" lean without really figuring out the root cause doesn't seem like a great idea to me. No offence, intended. I get where you are at and I don't have a better idea to offer.

 

[TLC2013]

I have the Tough Dog 45mm shock set up. The taller spring is on the passenger side to compensate for the weight of the fuel. Interestingly, the driver side is lower, not the passenger side like if the springs were mismatched. Seems like it’s overcompensating for sure with the passenger side being over an inch taller even with a full tank.

The closest I have come to getting things leveled is by having all four wheels off the ground with the frame on jack stands. Opening up the KDSS valves got the difference to about 1/2”. over time, less then a week, the lean reappeared.

might not be a bad idea to swap the rear springs and see what happens.

 

[kcjaz]

I have the Tough Dog 45mm shock set up. The taller spring is on the passenger side to compensate for the weight of the fuel. Interestingly, the driver side is lower, not the passenger side like if the springs were mismatched. Seems like it’s overcompensating for sure with the passenger side being over an inch taller even with a full tank.

The closest I have come to getting things leveled is by having all four wheels off the ground with the frame on jack stands. Opening up the KDSS valves got the difference to about 1/2”. over time, less then a week, the lean reappeared.

might not be a bad idea to swap the rear springs and see what happens.

You said you tried all of the things suggested in other threads. So, putting the high side up on planks with KDSS open didn’t work? Did it do anything?

 

[acruisinf]

To offer a second perspective to @TLC2013’s original post, I’ve got 1.25” of lean to the driver’s side, both front and rear. Stock suspension, never touched other than adding OEM 10mm coil spacers in the front of the vehicle.
I’ve had the system opened up and reset, which got the lean to 0.25”. First drive following that reset and it reverted back to 1.25”.

I agree that adding a trim packer to the left rear is a “bandaid” and doesn’t address the root cause. Though, as @TLC2013 mentioned in the OP, there is seemingly far too much noise out there about KDSS lean and not enough facts, which is I think why a lot of folks struggle to do a root cause analysis.

 

[Dixon Santana]

I'm running one trim packer on the driver side rear. After I finished my suspension install I had a lean, not as bad as what you are experiencing, but it was noticeable. Currently I've got one 10mm trim packer on the driver side and it doesn't seem affect the handling at all. That being said, I'd probably start with switching around the springs. My initial lean was 3/4 in, now I'm at 1/8 in difference side to side and you really can't notice it. As far as KDSS after I'm done messing with the suspension I always rock the vehicle back and forth and that seems to help set everything in place.

 

[TeCKis300]

I agree that adding a trim packer to the left rear is a “bandaid” and doesn’t address the root cause. Though, as @TLC2013 mentioned in the OP, there is seemingly far too much noise out there about KDSS lean and not enough facts, which is I think why a lot of folks struggle to do a root cause analysis.

I respectfully disagree. It may be worthwhile to understand that 4x4 leans have been a thing since the beginning of slinky suspensions. The 200-series is not unique nor immune. Just lookup the 80-series, 100-series, or any 4x4 enthusiast forum. Springs settling is the root cause. Once a vehicle takes a set over time, the weaker spring/lower corner bears more and more weight, further increasing the lean.

Trim packers are the solution.

 

[TLC2013]

You said you tried all of the things suggested in other threads. So, putting the high side up on planks with KDSS open didn’t work? Did it do anything?

correct, I have done the block trick, and also used a floor jack under the passenger (high) side axle to try and rebalance things... no luck though.

 

[TLC2013]

I respectfully disagree. It may be worthwhile to understand that 4x4 leans have been a thing since the beginning of slinky suspensions. The 200-series is not unique nor immune. Just lookup the 80-series, 100-series, or any 4x4 enthusiast forum. Springs settling is the root cause. Once a vehicle takes a set over time, the weaker spring/lower corner bears more and more weight, further increasing the lean.

Trim packers are the solution.

I think i must have read every thread here on “lean“ and “KDSS“, So much good knowledge on this forum. @TeCKis300 appreciate all of your input on the matter, curious to your thoughts on this as I had a slight lean before the lift. About 3/4” when the truck/suspension had 80,000 miles. After installing the lift the lean to about 1.25”. There is now around 8,000 miles of mainly street use on the tough dog suspension. Hoping trim packers help with this.

Other idea is to purchase the fuel tank side spring (passenger side US model) and install it on the driver side to see if that eliminates the lean.

 

[TeCKis300]

I would say the goal is to get things more level within tolerance. Just as stock specs allow for some variation. Not necessarily perfect.

Are you measuring the lean with a full or empty gas tank? IIRC, tank is on the passenger side so that may influence the measurement a bit.

I don't think you could go wrong with either a 10 or 15mm packer.

 

[TLC2013]

I would say the goal is to get things more level within tolerance. Just as stock specs allow for some variation. Not necessarily perfect.

Are you measuring the lean with a full or empty gas tank? IIRC, tank is on the passenger side so that may influence the measurement a bit.

I don't think you could go wrong with either a 10 or 15mm packer.

if I can get to within 3/4” I’d be happy. Tank has either been full or At 3/4 when I’ve done my measurements, haven’t noticed much difference either way. I’ll start with the packer and cross my fingers that does the trick.

 

[bloc]

The block trick is the definition of a bandaid fix. You are using the KDSS system to apply pressure to the sway bars to try and correct a lean that is caused by something else.

Im not yet sure if an over or under pressure situation within KDSS can cause or exacerbate a lean, but the board trick absolutely wouldn’t address this problem if it was the root cause.

 

[afgman786]

I don't see why a trim spacer would be a bad thing.. As mentioned it's been done on older cruisers for a while. KDSS helps stiffen or relax the sway bars (dumbed down explanation). So if you're adding a spacer on top of the spring all you are affecting is how much lift you have on that side, without cranking your sway bar and trying to lock them in that place.

 

[bloc]

I don't see why a trim spacer would be a bad thing.. As mentioned it's been done on older cruisers for a while. KDSS helps stiffen or relax the sway bars (dumbed down explanation). So if you're adding a spacer on top of the spring all you are affecting is how much lift you have on that side, without cranking your sway bar and trying to lock them in that place.

And, opening/closing the balance valves should reset the bars to the new “neutral” position with the spacer in place. Better for everything.

 

[TLC2013]

And, opening/closing the balance valves should reset the bars to the new “neutral” position with the spacer in place. Better for everything.

Glad to hear this approach should work.

@bloc and @TeCKis300 do you guys have any experience with how large a packer can be used? Being that my lean is over 1” do you think a 10mm packer would suffice ? Not sure if it would be wise to double them up to 20mm which on paper would level things out pretty good.

 

[Atwalz]

Just making sure taller spring was installed on passenger side.