Builds Trail Tailor- Custom Armor Build plus a few things

[TonyP]

For the 2nd to last paragraph comment. No, I mean that in complete sincerity, not an attack at all. Your build is yours, same as mine is mine. If it works for you, that is what matters, and that is all that matters at the end of the day. Who am I to say that what makes you happy is wrong? This is 'Merica!

My 200 is not my DD either, a $2,000 Jetta is. But I feel that even with a dedicated fun truck, I am still 90% on the highway, to get to the trail. That is what worries me, but that's me, it's not the right answer for everyone.

I only bring this stuff up, because I feel others need to know possible strength and weakness of designs. I've spent a ton of money over the years on products that failed, and others that just didn't work for me. I care about the regular guys pocket book, that's all, and I think we get there by having dynamic discussion like this. I am not god's gift to the automotive world, and I only learn by failure, so that's why I really do mean it when I say I like hearing from other point of view.

On my rock buggies, I totally built bumpers like that. Super strong. But on a vehicle that can see public roads, I start thinking about factors that are going to win against my strong bumper, and the weaker part under it that would at least need to be reinforced.

Agreed that this one wreck could have a ton a variables. However, metal will bend in a wreck, that is going to happen, add leverage to the wings and it will be more. The less clearance to other stuff, the less of an impact is needed to bend the wing into a fender. Our frames are designed to fail at a certain point, it's just a fact, and I think that needs to be addressed, when removing crush zone parts for piece that is now stronger than what they are bolted to.

Again, I mean no "that guy" "one-upper" attitude. I think this is good stuff, really I do. The holes for air flow under the bumper are a genius, especially if they had a wing that pushed the wind up toward components if needed.

I just go back to when I was growing up in machine/fabrication shops and later working in a custom car shop. I did SOOOOO much body and frame repair work to front ends from a bumper that was definitely strong. And maybe it left me with an unrealistic expectation of what could happen, who knows, either way, I feel like a dick now, and I'm sorry for that.

Either way, shouldn't you be planning our Rubicon trip? Get off mud

 

[TonyP]

I think the process of "poking holes" in things is eventually good, so long as everyone understands there is a genuine desire get to the bottom of questions vs. "winning the argument." On many forums, that's impossible, because people are too emotionally invested in their own "camp." This forum is different and it's what keeps me coming back. People enjoy the success of others here. I know all parties involved here want everyone to arrive on a good result, and that's very cool.

PS. One thing I've learned about Taco is that he scrutinizes all things simply as a way of processing them.
ALL THINGS I have the same tendency when I shop. If I poke holes...and can fill them with the right info? I make a good purchase.
When I don't bother poking holes in my potential purchases? I find them later. So... Poke away!

I'll bring some MMA mats to Breck for any forum grievances. That and a gallon of percocet for when I inevitability throw my back out like a geriatric.

 

[Markuson]

I'll bring some MMA mats to Breck for any forum grievances. That and a gallon of percocet for when I inevitability throw my back out like a geriatric.

Ha!

Well heck, I have about 300 super-powered Dilaudid pills from my injury/recovery...that my former-addict cousin tells me is worth a mint (haha)...so you won't feel a thing!

In all seriousness...I HATED being on those meds, and frankly don't get why people would pay to get them for "fun..." but I'm sorta a nerd that way....

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Either way, shouldn't you be planning our Rubicon trip? Get off mud

AHHH, I was totally writing something about us doing that trip!!! Too funny.

To keep this on Trail Tailor products (kinda), first off let it be known that if anything fails, it's Tony's fault. Jason makes some damn fine stuff, that's just a fact, and anybody that can help average people like us bring our imagination to life, is a damn fine person in my book.

So what a trip that will be with the Tony built Trail Tailor 200, the Mark built Slee and TJM 200, and my BudBuilt and ARB 200, all on a tough trail like that. I'm super pumped right now!

And you know what, they will all do great because we are lucky to have such good vendors willing to commit to us.

 

[Markuson]

AHHH, I was totally writing something about us doing that trip!!! Too funny.

To keep this on Trail Tailor products (kinda), first off let it be known that if anything fails, it's Tony's fault. Jason makes some damn fine stuff, that's just a fact, and anybody that can help average people like us bring our imagination to life, is a damn fine person in my book.

So what a trip that will be with the Tony built Trail Tailor 200, the Mark built Slee and TJM 200, and my BudBuilt and ARB 200, all on a tough trail like that. I'm super pumped right now!

And you know what, they will all do great because we are lucky to have such good vendors willing to commit to us.

Uh oh! Not sure I want Taco spotting meeeee...cuz he might wanna win the armor war! haha

 

[Bomar]

Badass Jason.....

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

First off... my saying and belief is to each their own and that's all that matters. I know what my experiences have been over the past 27+ years. I've built a couple hundred bumpers from sand rail tubes to Peterbilt cow killers, all with the base intentions to go through anything they would hit.

I prefer my style and designs to most others. They have kept my rigs, my family and me safe through approx. 3+ million public road miles and tens of thousands of trail miles.

I thought about making a weaker bumper a few years back, but when my buddy hit a bull moose in his welding truck at 70+. His girlfriend died from the A-pillar being crushed in and stabbing her in the upper torso and she bled out before help arrived. My buddy lost his lower right leg from the transmission pinching it basically off. The insurance company, doctors and state troopers said if the bumper had been stock or of lesser strength he more than likely would have been killed by the motor/transmission.

So, I'll keep on doing what I do and the way I do it. There are plenty of other offerings if people don't like mine and I'm completely fine with that. I build for a select demographic.

Also, the gussets from the lower skid/bash plate where the air holes to the winch plate are pitched /ramped to improve up flow air intake to heat affected components.

J

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Makes sense, you found a style that obviously works, so yea, I would stick with it too. Plus you have about double the experience I have.

I had a C-RV hit me on my front corner in my '96 Tacoma. She was doing 90, I was going 45. Like was mentioned earlier, there are a lot of variables that go into crashes. But I crawler out of that wreck, where she died. My bumper had a crush point in it.

But a 1,000 to 1,500 lbs moose at 70 mph vs a 3,500 lbs C-RV at 135 mph, yea I think the moose would be worse, just off the height of that guy vs a low crossover SUV. Probably why the a pillar failed.

In the effort of discussion, also mentioned earlier to try and get to a point of understanding vs other forums where people just get angry at each other.

What do you think about this, seriously, I'm genuinely asking, do you think it is marketing, or are there valid arguments. I know I used to make things very different for older truck versus modern vehicles like our 200.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

But when your rigs time is up its up... no matter what you do to it..


Catch

 

[Markuson]

First off... my saying and belief is to each their own and that's all that matters. I know what my experiences have been over the past 27+ years. I've built a couple hundred bumpers from sand rail tubes to Peterbilt cow killers, all with the base intentions to go through anything they would hit.

I prefer my style and designs to most others. They have kept my rigs, my family and me safe through approx. 3+ million public road miles and tens of thousands of trail miles.

I thought about making a weaker bumper a few years back, but when my buddy hit a bull moose in his welding truck at 70+. His girlfriend died from the A-pillar being crushed in and stabbing her in the upper torso and she bled out before help arrived. My buddy lost his lower right leg from the transmission pinching it basically off. The insurance company, doctors and state troopers said if the bumper had been stock or of lesser strength he more than likely would have been killed by the motor/transmission.

So, I'll keep on doing what I do and the way I do it. There are plenty of other offerings if people don't like mine and I'm completely fine with that. I build for a select demographic.

Also, the gussets from the lower skid/bash plate where the air holes to the winch plate are pitched /ramped to improve up flow air intake to heat affected components.

J

That moose thing is no joke. Driving through Alaska several times now, and being near when a couple were both killed when a moose rack came through their windshield has me seeking a full bull bar.

Like I've said in this thread...you've built probably the best looking front bumper I've seen for the 200 that's actually got strength. It reminds me a little of another bumper...but that one only looked good. Yours seems to be faaar more solid.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Makes sense, you found a style that obviously works, so yea, I would stick with it too. Plus you have about double the experience I have.

I had a C-RV hit me on my front corner in my '96 Tacoma. She was doing 90, I was going 45. Like was mentioned earlier, there are a lot of variables that go into crashes. But I crawler out of that wreck, where she died. My bumper had a crush point in it.

But a 1,000 to 1,500 lbs moose at 70 mph vs a 3,500 lbs C-RV at 135 mph, yea I think the moose would be worse, just off the height of that guy vs a low crossover SUV. Probably why the a pillar failed.

In the effort of discussion, also mentioned earlier to try and get to a point of understanding vs other forums where people just get angry at each other.

What do you think about this, seriously, I'm genuinely asking, do you think it is marketing, or are there valid arguments. I know I used to make things very different for older truck versus modern vehicles like our 200.

Honestly....IMO, if arb didn't have to meet AU safety regs for bars on public roads you would have NEVER seen that design. As far as the lateral rod they are talking about, I feel if the winch platform is built rigid enough and ties the bumper shell to it and the frame brackets, then the rod is not needed. From a fabrication stand point round rod is crap for strength in comparison to other material choices. Round rod is good for straight on tension or bolting. Take a concrete j-bolt for example. Its design to hold a wall straight down and to keep tension in a constant aligned situation. Now take that bolted down wall and pull or push on it. The bolts will usually snap off right above the concrete due to side loading the bolt and applying too much leverage.

As far as the "crumple" feature... Basically just drill some holes in a solid frame plate bracket and the "crumple" design will come to be. I think the crumple mounts are weak when side loaded and they are doing what they can to strengthen them up a little.

J

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Interesting, I didn't think about the safety regulations aspect. Now on Jeep Wranglers over there, the ARB bumper short replacements don't have crush cans, just bolts to the frame like your design. That's what made me continue to think about this aspect of crashes, yea know, what IS the ultimate reason for things. But it make a lot of sense what you are saying.

I appreciate the discussion, I really do, it's not to attack you or your business, it's to really think critically about stuff like this, and airbags etc, but also the rigidity and strength that your design has over something like an ARB. I see great designs in both, but it helps me appreciate your design so much more. I know we both have our experiences, that's why I keep trying to learn from others, because experience is that thing you get right after your need it.

Awesome about the air flow routing, great idea and very clean.

Now for me spotting Mark on the trail.
Taco: Mark! Mark! Driver!, more Driver!
Mark: hey! It feels like I'm really off camber
Taco: no, you're Good! Trust me, just hold it there! Yea... Perfect!

 

[Markuson]

LOL!

That's one of my favorite wheeling fail vids... Guy does a perfect gymnast landing...

 

[richxd87]

Jason, do you have any pics with a shackle mounted?

Got to test fit the new tow mounts.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Jason, do you have any pics with a shackle mounted?

I'll be back in the shop tomorrow morning tidying up my latest Tough Dog shipment. I'll get you a pic.

@Taco2Cruiser looks like Luke has the same idea on newer model bumper mounting too (4-7-17)

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Looks good, now lets hit something with it! That's the best part of building I think.

Also, @reevesci what length have you found is a good place to start on the panhard rod with a simple OME 2722 spring?

 

[TonyP]

whenever your ready..

Thank you

Rich

PM'd for an order.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Looks good, now lets hit something with it! That's the best part of building I think.

Also, @reevesci what length have you found is a good place to start on the panhard rod with a simple OME 2722 spring?
View attachment 1450624

Been away most of last night and today man... Tornado hit my grandmothers ranch in East Texas and doing all I can to help my father from a distance.

If you remove the stock bar and lift the rear off the ground where the rear free hangs, the axle will basically center itself. Set it back down, then measure hole to hole, adjust new bar and install. Repeat the free hang and the check center to center. You could be anywhere from 1/2" to 1.5" pending lift on length adjustment.

J

 

[mervo]

Been away most of last night and today man... Tornado hit my grandmothers ranch in East Texas and doing all I can to help my father from a distance.
J

Fingers crossed, and prayers out, that everyone is safe and all is well.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Fingers crossed, and prayers out, that everyone is safe and all is well.

Thanks S,

She'll be 98 this year and between dad, me and the a few hands we keep things going there. Looks like we lost about 60 head of angus and several outbuildings. All family and friends are good. I've been scheduling equipment to clean up debris and tree removal on the North K sections. The South and West sections just had snapped trees and no livestock, equipment or building loss. The hands already have all the roads opened there.

We have some up to 200 year old oak, walnut and hickory trees on the North K and its where the original homestead is as well. They can't drive into that part of the property yet and walking that mile or so with all the uprooted trees is a no go right now. One of the hands has seen about 50 timbers and copperheads he said. They are stirred up and its unsafe currently on foot.

J