And really, how does Toyota sell a $50.0K 7#-series in a South American country???
Toyota R&D Reading, We Want a 70 Series
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If Toyota starts selling this truck with PTO, cable lockers, and split rims, I will quit school and get a real job to buy one, no matter how long it takes to work off.
madams557 said:
That was a nice article.
Toyota has aready passed DCX in the US from what I've read, both in sales and in domestic production. They have passed Ford world-wide and have more cash on hand than Ford and GM combined.
For all the name calling of Toyota on this site, they seem to have their s*** together.
HZJ60 Guy
Tank Buster
You know this isnt rocket science. They deemed the US market worthy of the FJ40. Why the hell not the 70 series?
If they reintroduced the 74 to battle the TJ, and kept it at say 35-40,000 they'd sell every one they could make.
TB
If they reintroduced the 74 to battle the TJ, and kept it at say 35-40,000 they'd sell every one they could make.
TB
HZJ60 Guy said:
Bwaaaaaa-ha-ha-ha-ha. You damn near made me wet myself.
maybe if they only made a couple of thousand.
Toyota if you are reading this put me in for 70 series pick-up but I won't turn down a troppie like this one:
Gumby wrote - Toyota has aready passed DCX in the US from what I've read, both in sales and in domestic production. They have passed Ford world-wide and have more cash on hand than Ford and GM combined.
From what I've read, the top Three in the U.S. market are still GM, Ford, and DC in that order and on an annual basis. Toyota surpassed DC last year in a quarter or two, but with the intro of the 300 and Magnum and other recent intros, DC still barely leads Toyota in the US market. On a world scale, Toyota surpassed Ford and is closely trailing GM. However, after reading the above article and several recent articles concerning more GM recalls and large price cuts on its SUVs, and Mistubishi again having financial problems in North America, GM is scrambling to make some changes to stay ahead.
In the auto industry, there are number of vehicles sold, profit per vecihles, and profit per company. Toyota leads in profit per vehicle and net holdings per company. Furthermore, Toyota is the leader in hybrid technology, and has introduced a vegitable based plastic that is biodegradable. If their damn stock wasn't at nearly $80 a share, I'd buy in.
From what I've read, the top Three in the U.S. market are still GM, Ford, and DC in that order and on an annual basis. Toyota surpassed DC last year in a quarter or two, but with the intro of the 300 and Magnum and other recent intros, DC still barely leads Toyota in the US market. On a world scale, Toyota surpassed Ford and is closely trailing GM. However, after reading the above article and several recent articles concerning more GM recalls and large price cuts on its SUVs, and Mistubishi again having financial problems in North America, GM is scrambling to make some changes to stay ahead.
In the auto industry, there are number of vehicles sold, profit per vecihles, and profit per company. Toyota leads in profit per vehicle and net holdings per company. Furthermore, Toyota is the leader in hybrid technology, and has introduced a vegitable based plastic that is biodegradable. If their damn stock wasn't at nearly $80 a share, I'd buy in.
madams557 said:
Cocaine all around my brain. Lots of 70 series sold in Colombia.
I wouldn't mind having a 70 series at all. I consider all of Land Cruisers work horses, 70 series is what really stands out in my mind as a good all around rig.
How many are running around other countries, I think they would take off here too. I would rather have an extended cab though.
How many are running around other countries, I think they would take off here too. I would rather have an extended cab though.
i'm moving to grand cayman so i can buy a diesel prado
and the diving is not too bad, either
and the diving is not too bad, either
To make an educated "guess" as to whether or not Toyota will import the 7x-series, we will need to look at their overall business strategy.
As posted by many, Toyota is one of the most profitable, if not the most profitable automotive manufacturer in the world. There must be a profitable motive to produce/import any vehicle model. While it is conceivable that Toyota could import a low volume vehicle that generates little profit (e.g. MR-S), it must generate enough brand image that helps the sales to other Toyota products. Does Toyota need LC brand recognition? Yes. Do they have it already. Yes. Are they building on the LC brand. Yes, as evident by the FJ cruiser. So where does this leave the 7x LC in the brand recognition strategy? I'll leave that as an open question.
Second business issue to consider for Toyota is that they are consolidating their platforms. This is already evident in the platform-sharing of LC120=4Runner=Tacoma=FJ Cruiser and RX=Sienna=Camry=EX. While one can argue that the LC brand is being diluted with the platform-sharing with other non-LC brand, Toyota is already moving in that direction with minimal market impact. The current Tundra/Sequoia already shares many drivetrain components with the LC100 and the LC130 will be a common platform for LC(?), LX550, Sequoia, and Tundra. So where does this leave the 7x-series? It is a dedicated platform not used for any other vehicle model. This make it less competitive in most of the developed markets and cost more to manufacture and maintain the support network. The advantage the 7x LC does have is that the model life is very long and the initial cost of the tooling has already been paid for.
So what does it all mean for the 7x LC? It is unlikely that Toyota will import it into the US in its current configuration with the expensive mods that are needed to bring it to comply with the US safety and emmision standards. I interpret Toyota R&D's post to read the 7x is due for a major update/model replacement, and Toyota is considering making 7x into a world-wide platform that can be sold in the US (i.e. meet the US/EU safety and emmission standard). Following the current Toyota corporate strategy, it is likely that they will make the successor to the 7x series share as much component with the other platforms as possible. This means redesigning the chasis to fit the V engines, diesel engines, and heavy-duty drivetrain components (3/4 ton+ axles). Since most of these components (diesel and heavy-duty axles) won't be available until after 2006, I doubt that we will see Toyota importing 7x or its successor into the US any time soon.
Another likely alternative I can see is that Toyota basing the 7x replacement on the Tacoma/120LC chasis. The 120 chasis can already be fitted with the V6/V8 engine, comes in various lengths (from crewcab longbed to SWB Prado not sold in the US). All it needs are some SFA and heavy-duty
engine/transmission/axles from the 130 series.
So the question comes down to "would I buy a 7x LC"? Yes, but not for $50k US unless the new 7x replacement can surpass the power, comfort, and on/offroad capability of my 80 and have a DIESEL engine. While a dedicated offroad vehicle is nice to have, for $50k, one can buy a Tacoma (or something like it) and have enough $$$ left for serious mods (such as a SFA conversion).
As posted by many, Toyota is one of the most profitable, if not the most profitable automotive manufacturer in the world. There must be a profitable motive to produce/import any vehicle model. While it is conceivable that Toyota could import a low volume vehicle that generates little profit (e.g. MR-S), it must generate enough brand image that helps the sales to other Toyota products. Does Toyota need LC brand recognition? Yes. Do they have it already. Yes. Are they building on the LC brand. Yes, as evident by the FJ cruiser. So where does this leave the 7x LC in the brand recognition strategy? I'll leave that as an open question.
Second business issue to consider for Toyota is that they are consolidating their platforms. This is already evident in the platform-sharing of LC120=4Runner=Tacoma=FJ Cruiser and RX=Sienna=Camry=EX. While one can argue that the LC brand is being diluted with the platform-sharing with other non-LC brand, Toyota is already moving in that direction with minimal market impact. The current Tundra/Sequoia already shares many drivetrain components with the LC100 and the LC130 will be a common platform for LC(?), LX550, Sequoia, and Tundra. So where does this leave the 7x-series? It is a dedicated platform not used for any other vehicle model. This make it less competitive in most of the developed markets and cost more to manufacture and maintain the support network. The advantage the 7x LC does have is that the model life is very long and the initial cost of the tooling has already been paid for.
So what does it all mean for the 7x LC? It is unlikely that Toyota will import it into the US in its current configuration with the expensive mods that are needed to bring it to comply with the US safety and emmision standards. I interpret Toyota R&D's post to read the 7x is due for a major update/model replacement, and Toyota is considering making 7x into a world-wide platform that can be sold in the US (i.e. meet the US/EU safety and emmission standard). Following the current Toyota corporate strategy, it is likely that they will make the successor to the 7x series share as much component with the other platforms as possible. This means redesigning the chasis to fit the V engines, diesel engines, and heavy-duty drivetrain components (3/4 ton+ axles). Since most of these components (diesel and heavy-duty axles) won't be available until after 2006, I doubt that we will see Toyota importing 7x or its successor into the US any time soon.
Another likely alternative I can see is that Toyota basing the 7x replacement on the Tacoma/120LC chasis. The 120 chasis can already be fitted with the V6/V8 engine, comes in various lengths (from crewcab longbed to SWB Prado not sold in the US). All it needs are some SFA and heavy-duty
engine/transmission/axles from the 130 series.
So the question comes down to "would I buy a 7x LC"? Yes, but not for $50k US unless the new 7x replacement can surpass the power, comfort, and on/offroad capability of my 80 and have a DIESEL engine. While a dedicated offroad vehicle is nice to have, for $50k, one can buy a Tacoma (or something like it) and have enough $$$ left for serious mods (such as a SFA conversion).
denis
(O) toyota nut (O)
All of you guys that seriously want to buy a brand new 70 series, head to your dealership and put a deposit down and say how much you're ready to pay total. If 10 or 20 guys over the country do the same, Toyota of USA will make their maths, if there's money to be made by importing a couple 70 series, they will do it. Arguing over the internet won't make it happen, but showing them the money will.
That's the way I see it either way
That's the way I see it either way
ryanjl
SILVER Star
Few things here, and your obvious rubuttals in bold:
No, there is nothing about a 7X series in the USA that is off the shelf. The entire vehicle will have to be imported. Body, frame, engine, axles, transmission, etc. Your nitpicking on my comments lead me to believe that you really don't understand what that concept means.
But they import Land Cruisers already!
But these will be a new, much lower volume model, that will have to be promoted and marketed just like any other new vehicle release. Sure, they can rely on everyone on this site and other 'wheelers', but that might generate 1,000 units sold for a 50K vehicle.
But why will it be a 50K vehicle? It's cheaper in Australia?
Because Toyota MUST promote and advertise the vehicle, must be able to ship and distribute the vehicle, must get nationwide parts distribution in order, etc., all costs dispersed over less units for a low selling vehicle. As I said, they might, MIGHT, sell 1,000 units the first year..... but what about year #2, when all the 'wheelers' have already bought theirs?
You think Toyota is going to go through all this effort to sell 1,000 vehicles, when they can expend the same effort to sell 100,000 units of another vehicle? You think they will waste factory space at a new facility on US soil to build 1,000 vehicles when they could use the same space to build 120,000 units of another model? You are crazy! The opportunity costs are waaaaaay too staggering.
But what about other companies?!
Lets look at what has historically happened with other companies that have brought similar vehicles to the US market, vehicles that already existed overseas that were brought in to compete with Jeep in the SAS market.
Mercedes G-500: The vehicle and marketing costs were so great, that Mercedes felt it best to bling the vehicle up with all kinds of luxury items (leather, electronics, etc.) so that people can better justify spending that kind of coin on a vehicle. Sales are so sluggish, the model is going to be replaced with a new G series, which is basically a large M-class. In other words, the USA G-500 has been deemed a failure.
LandRover Defender: Only a few thousand models were sold, and the US model was discontinued when safety (airbag) and emissions regulations caught up to the model. Land Rover has been hemorraging money for several years--through the BMW ownership and now with Ford--and is just now beginning to show signs of profit after re-vamping their entire line with the more street friendly RR MK3 and LR3. The Freelander has been a sales dissapointment.
Summary? Toyota is definitely not Land Rover in that they make good business decisions.
The most reasonable thing you could think of is some sort of special order program, whereby Toyota makes them available by order through a dealership, with the understanding that your parts will take over a week to get here, there may not be as much dealer support, etc. This is the most likely scenario in a sea of very unlikely ones. And this will ONLY work if the newer overseas models meet all US saftety and emission regulations. Keep yer fingers crossed.
But I ask you this: Who among us will pony up 50K for a wheeling vehicle, when you can keep the 60 series, 40 series, 80 series, or whatever series you already have and buy a brand new Boxter or Corvette with the money instead? Who???
No, there is nothing about a 7X series in the USA that is off the shelf. The entire vehicle will have to be imported. Body, frame, engine, axles, transmission, etc. Your nitpicking on my comments lead me to believe that you really don't understand what that concept means.
But they import Land Cruisers already!
But these will be a new, much lower volume model, that will have to be promoted and marketed just like any other new vehicle release. Sure, they can rely on everyone on this site and other 'wheelers', but that might generate 1,000 units sold for a 50K vehicle.
But why will it be a 50K vehicle? It's cheaper in Australia?
Because Toyota MUST promote and advertise the vehicle, must be able to ship and distribute the vehicle, must get nationwide parts distribution in order, etc., all costs dispersed over less units for a low selling vehicle. As I said, they might, MIGHT, sell 1,000 units the first year..... but what about year #2, when all the 'wheelers' have already bought theirs?
You think Toyota is going to go through all this effort to sell 1,000 vehicles, when they can expend the same effort to sell 100,000 units of another vehicle? You think they will waste factory space at a new facility on US soil to build 1,000 vehicles when they could use the same space to build 120,000 units of another model? You are crazy! The opportunity costs are waaaaaay too staggering.
But what about other companies?!
Lets look at what has historically happened with other companies that have brought similar vehicles to the US market, vehicles that already existed overseas that were brought in to compete with Jeep in the SAS market.
Mercedes G-500: The vehicle and marketing costs were so great, that Mercedes felt it best to bling the vehicle up with all kinds of luxury items (leather, electronics, etc.) so that people can better justify spending that kind of coin on a vehicle. Sales are so sluggish, the model is going to be replaced with a new G series, which is basically a large M-class. In other words, the USA G-500 has been deemed a failure.
LandRover Defender: Only a few thousand models were sold, and the US model was discontinued when safety (airbag) and emissions regulations caught up to the model. Land Rover has been hemorraging money for several years--through the BMW ownership and now with Ford--and is just now beginning to show signs of profit after re-vamping their entire line with the more street friendly RR MK3 and LR3. The Freelander has been a sales dissapointment.
Summary? Toyota is definitely not Land Rover in that they make good business decisions.
The most reasonable thing you could think of is some sort of special order program, whereby Toyota makes them available by order through a dealership, with the understanding that your parts will take over a week to get here, there may not be as much dealer support, etc. This is the most likely scenario in a sea of very unlikely ones. And this will ONLY work if the newer overseas models meet all US saftety and emission regulations. Keep yer fingers crossed.
But I ask you this: Who among us will pony up 50K for a wheeling vehicle, when you can keep the 60 series, 40 series, 80 series, or whatever series you already have and buy a brand new Boxter or Corvette with the money instead? Who???
ryanjl
SILVER Star
Almost forgot, there was one more vehicle that was in the USA to compete with Jeep that was evetually pulled due to slow sales....
The FJ-40
The FJ-40
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I thought they destroyed what it means to ba a Land cruiser when they went to radial tires? or was it diesel engines? or was it fuel injection? or was it 4 doors? or was it electric wipers? or was it power windows? or was it when they went to factory locked axles ( so un-cruiser like, probably pissed alot of people off)? or was it non-folding windows? or was it power steering? or was it...HZJ60 Guy said:
Anyways your mall cruiser poser HZJ60
is nothing like a REAL Land Cruiser 
vinyl interior's rule
<<thought they destroyed what it means to ba a Land cruiser when they went to radial tires? or was it diesel engines? or was it fuel injection? or was it 4 doors? or was it electric wipers? or was it power windows? or was it when they went to factory locked axles ( so un-cruiser like, probably pissed alot of people off)? or was it non-folding windows? or was it power steering? or was it...
Anyways your mall cruiser poser HZJ60 is nothing like a REAL Land Cruiser >>
If I ever think like this....shoot me. I was never one of those people who were foolishly scared of EFI, or coil springs. Hence I bought a 62' after my 60 and then a FZJ after the FJ-62. And you never heard me complaining about much. HZJ60 has a sweet rig that is by no means a MALL CRUISER (100 series). I would take that thing over the 100 and the FJ Cruisers any day....spend half of the same money, and have an overall better car. It’s easy when you've got a $40,000+ difference to build up a vehicle that already has good ability.
And it is not that hard to figure out that a Rubicon will better fit HZJ60 needs, by what he wrote. Toyota offers nothing close to that here in the US. The Rubicon would better fit my wants too, but I could never buy a JEEP. So I will spend ~$15,000 on a twenty year old BJ-70 from Canada instead of wasting my money on Toyota's disappointing current offerings. I think my LAST new purchase from Toyota will be my 01' Tacoma. Oh, I will always drive/buy Toyotas, my first car was a Yota and I have only DD Toyotas since. But no more new ones. UNLESS THEY IMPORT THE 70 SERIES, BUT I KNOW IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN...I just love speaking upon deaf ears.
Anyways your mall cruiser poser HZJ60 is nothing like a REAL Land Cruiser >>
If I ever think like this....shoot me. I was never one of those people who were foolishly scared of EFI, or coil springs. Hence I bought a 62' after my 60 and then a FZJ after the FJ-62. And you never heard me complaining about much. HZJ60 has a sweet rig that is by no means a MALL CRUISER (100 series). I would take that thing over the 100 and the FJ Cruisers any day....spend half of the same money, and have an overall better car. It’s easy when you've got a $40,000+ difference to build up a vehicle that already has good ability.
And it is not that hard to figure out that a Rubicon will better fit HZJ60 needs, by what he wrote. Toyota offers nothing close to that here in the US. The Rubicon would better fit my wants too, but I could never buy a JEEP. So I will spend ~$15,000 on a twenty year old BJ-70 from Canada instead of wasting my money on Toyota's disappointing current offerings. I think my LAST new purchase from Toyota will be my 01' Tacoma. Oh, I will always drive/buy Toyotas, my first car was a Yota and I have only DD Toyotas since. But no more new ones. UNLESS THEY IMPORT THE 70 SERIES, BUT I KNOW IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN...I just love speaking upon deaf ears.
97 FZJ80 said:
Not really, Rover offered the defender 90 and 110 briefly as noted. It did well, Damn things are way over priced used. It would be really cool if toyota stepped up to the plate and offered a limited # of 70 series as a tribute to entering the US market. I hope they are not forgetting the land cruiser got them here.
cruiserdan said:
A lowly rookie enters the fray:
C-Dan has shared his insider's wisdom on the topic, and those of us comimitted to it should move with solidarity in the direction he has prescribed. Perhaps he would be generous enough with his time to further describe how to effectively communicate our desires to those we need to make it a reality? Perhaps Woody can also join the quest by steering the effort in the direction of those he knows are listening or at least willing to listen?
Although this is painfully similar to the task of chasing moonbeams, we need to remind ourselves that Cruiser freaks such as ourselves tend to get the Cruisers we want - eventually.
Oh, and count me in for at least one 7X series...and make it a Troopie!
Duster
