Toyota R&D Reading, We Want a 70 Series

[bkg]

Lastly, have faith. Cuz if you don't, when you finally see a 100 do the same tough things an 80 does you'll then seek salvation? Believe in 100 owners experiences NOW. Ya believe in God and ya ain't seen him?
Get it?

Has nothing to do with the capabilities of a 100, nor has it ever. I'll have to go back through the threads and point out your pro-IFS anti-SFA posts, but it won't be happening right now. If I've mis-quoted, I'll apologize.

My point still stands - Toyota has an opportunity to build something worthy of the FJ namesake in durability and yet they choose not to do so.

 

[weissbrewer]

If we really want articulation lets shoot for the moon! PORTAL AXLES!!!

 

[firetruck41]

AGB please?!?!?!


































AGB=Anti Gravity Boots

 

[66fj40x2]

No offense to anyone that has one but.....I wheeled with a 70 a few months back and it didn't climb for s***. Not all that.

Jason, In all fairness though he was open diffs. Gave my 8274 a workout too , heavy mutha's they are.

 

[MoJ]

True he was and I'm sure my longer wheel base gives me an advantage on an climbing obstacle like that. I'd like to see a locked one perform. Either way, the size of those things is perfect. (My 80's been feeling 'big' lately, I keep meeting trees.)

Funny, as much as everyone wants an import cruiser, both guys I've met with Canadian cruisers said it wasn't that hard to get 'em into the states and registered.

 

[66fj40x2]

I'm not sure if Noah is on the forum here or not, but he was talking about it to someone last weekend in Emporia. He said is really wasn't hard ...but I didn't get all the details. I can try to get on the TAC mailing list and see what was involved.

Mike

 

[dclee]

Let's be honest here... OK, I'll be honest with myself. A 70/75/78 would be super cool. But that's about it. I don't think it looks particularly better than anything else. I also don't think it wheels particularly better (though I've never seen one wheel, obviously, only read about it). SWB has four coils, but I'll still take a 40 because it's better supported in the aftermarket, is probably built tougher, and is more versatile in configuration. LWB, ony coils in front. Great as an expedition vehicle, but so is a 60, 80, or 100 (with better creature comforts!).

So really, if Toyota brought them in new, at the probable cost, I'd probably pine away at the thought of owning one, but would end up saving my money and getting a 40, or trying to get a 105 registered here, or even a brand new Venezuelan FZJ80.

My $0.02,

 

[HZJ60 Guy]

I own a Dodge truck precisely because of the solid axle and the Cummins motor. I do not see myself ever owning an IFS 4WD if I can help it. I bought my last Toyota truck in 1984 because of this reason and it appears that my 80 may be my last Cruiser purchase.

D-

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[wesintl]

Jason, In all fairness though he was open diffs. Gave my 8274 a workout too , heavy mutha's they are.

If they need wheel spin and momentum for climbing then yes they do kinda stink. But just about everything outside of that they rock. Really it's just a modern 40 series with a diesel. If you stuck a 2F other F series motor in one it'd be just like a 40. Owning a FZJ70 would be a fricking HOOT! although being a diesel fan I'd still opt for a the HZJ70...

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

My point still stands - Toyota has an opportunity to build something worthy of the FJ namesake in durability and yet they choose not to do so.

You're right, though they build the vehicles the way most want them in the US. Let's all face it.......After driving an IFS FJ and an SFA FJ, 95% of the drivers would prefer to own and drive the IFS. Us wheelers are a small minority. Looks like the SFA lovers might be driving Dodge Power Wagons or M/B G500's? (Not me though.)

 

[mabrodis]

What you don't realize is that 99.9% of the 80-owners will even try the Box either. They, and myself don't have to prove anything to anyone as to why not.

Good point John. As a site note, how many Rubicon owners would try the Sluice (which I've only seen in pictures btw)? How many Rubicon owners will EVER take it off pavement? Will EVER engage the lockers? Will EVER put it in low-range? Point is, a tiny, tiny percentage of any vehicle sales constitutes a '4wheeler', even for jxxp. Of those that would take a vehicle offroad, how many would be willing to risk damage, possibly major damage to a brand-new vehicle, or even a beatup Rubi? Hardly anyone, because damaging a trail vehicle isn't that big of deal, even celebrated at times, but damaging a good/expensive/new vehicle is atleast frowned on and borderline stupid IMO. Ofcourse some yell and shout how cool the dents/damage is but IMO the ones having fun with it is because it's not their vehicle.

It pains me to say that I somewhat agree with John on this. I would not buy a vehicle that excelled at one specific task (hardcore rock crawling) but lacked at every other task a vehicle is used for (grocery getting, commuting, hauling home supplies, towing a trailer, getting people unstuck, etc). I would rather buy a vehicle that did the best with most of those categories and possibly did horrible at only one of them, a task that is optional at best and possibly would never be utilitized anyway.

Just my $0.00 worth...

 

[madams557]

I second that...all around package is more important than single-use, also with the majority rules the driving force.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I second that...all around package is more important than single-use, also with the majority rules the driving force.

Yezzzz, sounds like what I've been saying (and getting drilled for) about the 80 vs 100. Owning both, there's NO comparison! The 100 spanks the 80 OVERALL but this doesn't mean the 80 stinks or doesn't have some advantages over the 100.

 

[Landpimp]

no it doesn't, Toyota already makes it, in the form of the 70 series.

My point still stands - Toyota has an opportunity to build something worthy of the FJ namesake in durability and yet they choose not to do so.

 

[atomicpunk51]

I guess the question is what is more important to you? Overall performance street/Mild off road OR Serious Off road performance. Actaully there is no disagreement, we were just talking apples VS oranges. Each vehicle has it's purpose or can be modified to that purpose with enough $$$. For 99% of the people out there, they don't even know what rock crawling is, let alone want to take their new $$$ vehicle up to the trails. BUT for a few people here at this site and over at Pirate4x4, it's all that matters when talking about 4wheeling. I don't really care about overall performance when specifically talking about 4wheeling because you need specific vehicle for specific types of 4wheeling. When I want to head to the snow or some mild trails I will take my Tacoma or 4runner, but If I am going serious 4wheeling I'll take the FJ40. I don't care that the Tacoma can't flex or the FJ40 ain't a sports car.

Most Jeep owners never take there jeeps off road, but for those who do they enjoy some pretty decent perforance right out of the box and with a Long arm susp lift and some 33s or 35s they are some Hardcore offroad vehicles. My little brother strayed from our families Toyota tradition and bought a CJ & a TJ. His TJ goes up and back over some of the toughest trails like Fordyce and the Rubicon. The disadvantage was when we drove the TJ from Virgina to California, it road like a brick, but whatever.

Also about the sluice box. I am old enough(31) to remember back in the late 80's when the box was just another part of the trail that was passable by most vehicles. It wasn't untill the 90's when people started rolling huge rocks into the trail. By the 2000's people have made it almost impassable to all but the most hardcore modified rigs and comp rock buggies. Also has for Trail Lexus running through the rubicon, it wasn't that great of a feat. This summer I saw a 2 wheel drive VW dune buggy make it through with some whinching and straping, funny stuff.

Sorry for the rambling, just bored at work and this is a very interesting discussion.

 

[White Shark]

Listen, you front IFS guys are pissing in the wind. Quit trying to justify that $60k purchase. F off already and quit telling me how great your ride is in the rocks. If I want something smooth, I'll go buy a Cadillac. It's a friggen truck okay? Trucks are supposed to ride like hell. That's why guys like them. I like the windows rolled down, swampers humming so loud you can hear them in the next county over, and suspension feedback to let me know what I'm driving on. I'm in no particular hurry and driving fast offroad F's up the road and pisses off the locals. Keep your IFS. SFA works just fine.

What I want is a HZJ79 troopy with 3 lockers. I will not be taking it into the "box" and could really not care less about how able and burly your 100 series is. I've got an 80 series that will do all of that and more. Are you happy? Great. Go buy yourself a new FJ and get crazy. The rest of us will be happy with the 70 series. Sign me up. White or tan with cloth seats, vinyl interior, rubber floor mats, and steel wheels. Rear ambulance doors and secondary rear a/c would be nice too, but not totally neccessary. No chrome please. Save that crap for the 100 series guys. I don't even care if it comes without a clear coat much less paint. It will only get washed once a year anyway. It's just a friggen truck, not a holy relic.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Listen, you front IFS guys are pissing in the wind. Quit trying to justify that $60k purchase. F off already and quit telling me how great your ride is in the rocks. If I want something smooth, I'll go buy a Cadillac. It's a friggen truck okay? Trucks are supposed to ride like hell. That's why guys like them. I like the windows rolled down, swampers humming so loud you can hear them in the next county over, and suspension feedback to let me know what I'm driving on. I'm in no particular hurry and driving fast offroad F's up the road and pisses off the locals. Keep your IFS. SFA works just fine.

What I want is a HZJ79 troopy with 3 lockers. I will not be taking it into the "box" and could really not care less about how able and burly your 100 series is. I've got an 80 series that will do all of that and more. Are you happy? Great. Go buy yourself a new FJ and get crazy. The rest of us will be happy with the 70 series. Sign me up. White or tan with cloth seats, vinyl interior, rubber floor mats, and steel wheels. Rear ambulance doors and secondary rear a/c would be nice too, but not totally neccessary. No chrome please. Save that crap for the 100 series guys. I don't even care if it comes without a clear coat much less paint. It will only get washed once a year anyway. It's just a friggen truck, not a holy relic.

I luv that post. Ya, baby. Make an axx of yourself.
Got a great idea.....Go and start a thread called "what's the best beast for rock crawling". That way you don't need to read our posts about our $60-75 trucks. Oh, and by the way.....I could care less about what you like/ride. If I wanted what you wanted/have I could probably buy 4 of them to my one 100.

OK, all in good fun now.

 

[ryanjl]

The breed of men who loves rough riding trucks that rattle and shake all the way down the road has gone the way of the dinosaur, I'm afraid. Hell, even when those trucks were state of the art, a person would have been hard pressed to choose that over a smooth, quiet ride that is 95% as capable.

Is it my opinion that IFS is superior off-road to a solid axle? No. HAS ANYONE SAID THAT IN THIS THREAD? NO!!!! All Shotts has said is that he wouldn't trade the IFS in his 100 for a SFA. He likes the compromise! Get it????

What we are discussing is the marketability of a vehicle. A vehicle with the traits you described,

Trucks are supposed to ride like hell. That's why guys like them. I like the windows rolled down, swampers humming so loud you can hear them in the next county over, and suspension feedback to let me know what I'm driving on. I'm in no particular hurry and driving fast offroad F's up the road and pisses off the locals. Keep your IFS. SFA works just fine.

might be marketable to about 10,000 people in the US of A. Subtract the people who don't want a new vehicle, don't want to spend $50K on one, already have a brand loyalty different than Toyota, or only want to buy American, you'll probably be left with about 1,000 people TOPS who would buy such an animal.

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SAYING.

You can take all the macho, rough and tumble s*** and throw it out the window if you are Toyota USA and are staring at those numbers.

"Hmmmm..... this market has 1,000 dudes. The other one has 50,000."

Which one would you choose? If it's option 'A', you're getting canned.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

"Hmmmm..... this market has 1,000 dudes. The other one has 50,000."

Which one would you choose? If it's option 'A', you're getting canned.

Awesome! Awesome! I'm LMAO!

Maybe White Shark was canned from Toyota when he demanded the sound dampening material be eliminated from the 100? Maybe that's why he loves the old stuff?

Just givin' ya hell SHARK! ;p

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

White Shark,
Did you just convert your FJ-80 to a 350 a couple of months ago? Are you near Stockton?

The rest,

I am sick of talking about this FJ. To me this issue is dead, Toyota is done producing capable US spec Cruisers and we have to deal with it. And I am sick of the 100 series owners trying to justfy the $50,000+ difference between their cars and all the other older vehicles. They know that the older Landcruisers are a better value, and that the same money spent on an older vehicle will yield an overall better end result. But in all honestly the 100 series is a very nice Landcruiser, not for me but still a good product. They might not be for everybody, the same can be said about the 70 series. The small percentage of people who remember what a Toyota is supposed to be would buy a 70. But that does not drive our market, the majority does. Personally I don;t like being a part of that majority. But to each his own.

MAYBE I SHOULD POST A PICTURE OF SHANIA TO MAKE THIS THREAD MEANINGFULL!!!

Post your favorate Shania pic. Go for it!!

As for me? I personally don't need to justify anything about the 100....because I own an old Cruiser too.