Toyota R&D Reading, We Want a 70 Series

[ryanjl]

If it was priced around 30K and available here, with dealer support, I would certianly buy one.

That is my "optomist" viewpoint.

My "realist" viewpoint is that's not fawking likely.

As Dan said, the ONLY way this would ever happen is if the newer 7x series in overseas markets (remember, it would have to be a left hand drive market as well) were to become compliant with USA regulations without additional modification. That's the first, and probably the largest, hurdle that there is.

After that, I assume they'd be a special order vehicle. I doubt Toyota would spend too many calories trying to promote such a low volume unit. Maybe $100K worth of ads in some wheeler rags, but that's about it.

All fine with me, of course.

 

[ryanjl]

Not really, Rover offered the defender 90 and 110 briefly as noted. It did well, Damn things are way over priced used. It would be really cool if toyota stepped up to the plate and offered a limited # of 70 series as a tribute to entering the US market. I hope they are not forgetting the land cruiser got them here.

The problem with Rover is what I said in my earlier post. I'd never use them as a model for good business, considering they are only now starting to turn a profit after several years of loss. Even though the USA D90's were about 40K new, LR USA still never made much money on them after all the promotion, import taxes, and the like were subtracted.

 

[atomicpunk51]

Let's get a reality check here(on a message board yeah right). The 70 series isn't coming to the US. While were at it the FJ Cruiser is never going to have a SFA, it is what it is, a light duty SUV for the mall crowd.

Even if you got a 70 series here, it would set you back $40-$50K. Let's not forget you still need a lift, Wheels, Tires, Sliders, gears. You weren't going to take your brand new 70 to the Rubicon on the stock 30" tires right??

Most people on this board already have it figured out. You don't need a 70 for hardcore Wheelin. Take that $5-$10K go out and buy a 70-84 FJ40 or a 85 Toy Truck/4runner or a 91-97 80 series. Now take $5K or so for lift, tires, gears, lockers, ect and were done. Let's go hit the Rubicon, Fordyce, Moab & the Hammers.

Lastly, all the talk in this thread about the 100 series being a hardcore wheeling vehicle is a joke. Nothing against the 100, it is a damn nice luxury suv, but a hardcore wheeler NO. Until I see one go through the Sluice Box, NO.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Lastly, all the talk in this thread about the 100 series being a hardcore wheeling vehicle is a joke. Nothing against the 100, it is a damn nice luxury suv, but a hardcore wheeler NO. Until I see one go through the Sluice Box, NO.

Yer kiddin', right? The SLUCE BOX is what defines a hardcore wheeler? The SLUCE BOX? The place Heather Hocker destroyed the body of her and John's 80? Get real. Go buy a Jeep or take a 40.

The friggin' Lexus GX completed the Rubi just fine and didn't need lockers. A mofiied 100 could complete it too and just as easily (if nt easier except for some squeezes). Who cares about the Sluce Box?

I'll ride with you, in massive comfort on 95% of the trails out there you can ride in a 55-80. In places I'll even have some advantages due to vehicle design, power, and features (like TRAC). In some places I will be at a disadvantage due to size and less front travel.

You talk "Joke"? The Joke would be riding on a 4.0 trail with a modified 100 and have you eat your words (like many have already) when you see it go.

 

[bkg]

Yer kiddin', right? The SLUCE BOX is what defines a hardcore wheeler? The SLUCE BOX? The place Heather Hocker destroyed the body of her and John's 80? Get real. Go buy a Jeep or take a 40.

The friggin' Lexus GX completed the Rubi just fine and didn't need lockers. A mofiied 100 could complete it too and just as easily (if nt easier except for some squeezes). Who cares about the Sluce Box?

I think you just proved his point, Shotts... You won't take your 100 anywhere near the box... And that Lexus - "completing" the rubicon meant taking a lot of by-passes. If that's hard core wheeling to you, then great for you. But it's not hard core for others.

"Go buy a jeep..." Thanks for proving my (and other's) point about the Rubicon being a turn-key wheeler and Toyota offering nothing in the same segment.

IFS is not for hard core wheeling. You can accept it or live in denial. But you cannot talk out of both sides of your mouth like the above....

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I think you just proved his point, Shotts... You won't take your 100 anywhere near the box... And that Lexus - "completing" the rubicon meant taking a lot of by-passes. If that's hard core wheeling to you, then great for you. But it's not hard core for others.

"Go buy a jeep..." Thanks for proving my (and other's) point about the Rubicon being a turn-key wheeler and Toyota offering nothing in the same segment.

IFS is not for hard core wheeling. You can accept it or live in denial. But you cannot talk out of both sides of your mouth like the above....

Yer a gas!
What you don't realize is that 99.9% of the 80-owners will even try the Box either. They, and myself don't have to prove anything to anyone as to why not.

Next time, try to mention more than one obstacle on one trail? Yer beating a dead horse cause if you read my words I agree with you. I've said the 100 can do 95% of the trails out there. The one OBSTACLE you mention is in the top 1% out there. Wouldn't try. Don't want to, even in my 80. Don't want to wreck it.

 

[ryanjl]

I think you just proved his point, Shotts... You won't take your 100 anywhere near the box... And that Lexus - "completing" the rubicon meant taking a lot of by-passes. If that's hard core wheeling to you, then great for you. But it's not hard core for others.

"Go buy a jeep..." Thanks for proving my (and other's) point about the Rubicon being a turn-key wheeler and Toyota offering nothing in the same segment.

IFS is not for hard core wheeling. You can accept it or live in denial. But you cannot talk out of both sides of your mouth like the above....

That's the problem. How many people do you know that would choose a vehicle dependent on it's ability to negotiate an obstacle like the Sluice Box, as opposed to less challenging rock crawling or more expeditionary trails? And how many of those already have a brand of choice, are happy with their current wheeler, or never would take a brand new vehicle through it?

The final number would constitute a definite small minority. Toyota hasn't become a top vehicle manufacturer by marketing to the minority.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

That's the problem. How many people do you know that would choose a vehicle dependent on it's ability to negotiate an obstacle like the Sluice Box, as opposed to less challenging rock crawling or more expeditionary trails? And how many of those already have a brand of choice, are happy with their current wheeler, or never would take a brand new vehicle through it?

The final number would constitute a definite small minority. Toyota hasn't become a top vehicle manufacturer by marketing to the minority.

IMO opinion Shocker you've made some really objective ports lately. Great job!

 

[ryanjl]

Irony of all ironies, I feel like you and I are in the minority on these posts, Shotts. haha...

 

[bkg]

Yer a gas!

I try.

What you don't realize is that 99.9% of the 80-owners will even try the Box either. They, and myself don't have to prove anything to anyone as to why not.

Next time, try to mention more than one obstacle on one trail? Yer beating a dead horse cause if you read my words I agree with you. I've said the 100 can do 95% of the trails out there. The one OBSTACLE you mention is in the top 1% out there. Wouldn't try. Don't want to, even in my 80. Don't want to wreck it.

But I do realize that most 80 owners won't take their truck through there as well... nor will most Taco owners, 4runner owners, Tundra owners, or FJ Cruiser Owners... you are correct - 100%.

The point is that when tough obsticles are mentioned, the response is "if you want to do that, go buy a jeep". You've argued that there is no need for anything but IFS, stated it's strong enough to do anything a person wants, etc... but as soon as a tough obsticle is mentioned, the only vehicle currently produced that could possible handle said obstacle... is a jeep. You don't see the irony in that?

What I'm trying to get at is the attitude that people have of IFS being just dandy for all types of wheeling while selectively excluding obstacles that they know cannot be done with their IFS vehicle... Jeep is producing vehicles that cater to this segment of the population - Toyota USED to do the same thing. But if even hard core enthusiasts continue with the attitude of "ifs is good enough" while bashing those who are asking for a more capable vehicle, Toyota will never respond.

What I find more interesting even than this petty argument (I do like to argue, however), is the numbers... Jeep is selling plenty of SFA equipped vehicles, as is Ford, but Toyota doesn't seem to respond to those numbers at all. I'm not sure why that is. But it is telling...

Prediction based on what Toyota is doing with the FJ Cruiser. The new HD line of pickups will be IFS with Rack and pinion....

 

[ryanjl]

I wonder, and this is just thinking out loud, what percentage of HD Ford, Wrangler, or Pwerwagon owners buy those vehicles because they are SFA?

That is really the only demographic Toyota could hope to penetrate, and not the one who "always wanted a Jeep ever since I was young because I love them", or the built American Ford or Dodge die-hards.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

The point is that when tough obsticles are mentioned, the response is "if you want to do that, go buy a jeep". You've argued that there is no need for anything but IFS, stated it's strong enough to do anything a person wants, etc... but as soon as a tough obsticle is mentioned, the only vehicle currently produced that could possible handle said obstacle... is a jeep. You don't see the irony in that?
QUOTE]

I feel like Bill O'Reily on The Factor! I'm being mis-quoted, and often?

Ok dude, find a post when I ever said "there is no need for anything but IFS?". YOU CAN'T! Dude, I have an 80. I know the difference. I've even said I'd NEVER want IFS on my 80. So, find that post that backs your statement?

Job #2: Find out where I ever said "IFS is strong enough to do anything a person wants". Can't find it either! With the tortue my 2001 has had over it's 90K miles and having the original CV's with almost 3-inches lift is amazing. IT HOLDS UP! That's what I've said. Nothing can do anything a person wants.

And lastly, you miss my point. Sluice Box? IT SUPER TIGHT. It has nothing to do with "difficulty". It's about size. To run that thing, snag a Jeep, a Zuk, or a 40. Make sense?

Lastly, have faith. Cuz if you don't, when you finally see a 100 do the same tough things an 80 does you'll then seek salvation? Believe in 100 owners experiences NOW. Ya believe in God and ya ain't seen him?

Drexx, Amando, myself and others have all proven (by owning) what the 100 can do. Don't you think if the 100 sucked we'd say it? OF COURSE! Who's foolin' who? I have a 100 for the 95%, I have the 80 for the 5%, and I want a 40 for Sluice Box. Get it?

 

[cruiserdan]

I own a Dodge truck precisely because of the solid axle and the Cummins motor. I do not see myself ever owning an IFS 4WD if I can help it. I bought my last Toyota truck in 1984 because of this reason and it appears that my 80 may be my last Cruiser purchase.

D-

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I own a Dodge truck precisely because of the solid axle and the Cummins motor. I do not see myself ever owning an IFS 4WD if I can help it. I bought my last Toyota truck in 1984 because of this reason and it appears that my 80 may be my last Cruiser purchase.

D-

What do ya think TOY would do if they came out with a 3/4 HD, whatever, Tundra? Any ideas? IFS? 80 axle? Something else?

 

[cruiserdan]

What do ya think TOY would do if they came out with a 3/4 HD, whatever, Tundra? Any ideas? IFS? 80 axle? Something else?

I don't really know John. Based on current automotive trends I imagine they would be some type of IFS. My fantasy would be a solid tube but I doubt I'll live to see that. Another thing that comes into play is production capacity. If you can only build X number of total units regardless of what axle you put under the front and you could sell more than you could build, why complicate your life by building two different drivetrains?

D-

 

[atomicpunk51]

The BOX was just used to illustrate a "Hardcore" wheeling area. You could put any number of spots in there from Moab, AZ, Fordyce, Hammers, ect... As a few people mentioned above when you talk about a hardcore wheeling you say go get a "Jeep or an FJ40" That's my point, you don't take a knife to a gunfight.

I am sure your 100 kicks some ass on most trails(it looks great on 35's), I would love to see you bring it up to NORCAL for some wheeling to flex out the IFS. I will be up there all spring/summer on the Con enjoying the benefits of a Solid Front Axle. I am sure the 100 is great for 95% of wheeling situations, but the only stuff most rock crawlers care about is the 5% of hardcore stuff and yes people do build/buy vehicles just for these types of hardcore wheeling. My Tacoma is a great wheeling truck with lift/tires/sliders/lockers that's been on the Rubicon, but i don't consider it a hardcore wheeler, for that I'll stick with my trusty FJ-40.

Sorry to take this off track from the 70 series talk.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

The BOX was just used to illustrate a "Hardcore" wheeling area. You could put any number of spots in there from Moab, AZ, Fordyce, Hammers, ect... As a few people mentioned above when you talk about a hardcore wheeling you say go get a "Jeep or an FJ40" That's my point, you don't take a knife to a gunfight.

I am sure your 100 kicks some ass on most trails(it looks great on 35's), I would love to see you bring it up to NORCAL for some wheeling to flex out the IFS. I will be up there all spring/summer on the Con enjoying the benefits of a Solid Front Axle. I am sure the 100 is great for 95% of wheeling situations, but the only stuff most rock crawlers care about is the 5% of hardcore stuff and yes people do build/buy vehicles just for these types of hardcore wheeling. My Tacoma is a great wheeling truck with lift/tires/sliders/lockers that's been on the Rubicon, but i don't consider it a hardcore wheeler, for that I'll stick with my trusty FJ-40.

Sorry to take this off track from the 70 series talk.

Sounds like in the end we agree. For those 5% of the trails I'll bring the 80 and enjoy it's smaller size and better flex. That's why I still think the 80's goin' to Cruise Moab. More fun!

 

[FirstToy]

The friggin' Lexus GX completed the Rubi just fine and didn't need lockers.

The Trail Lex has a ARB rear locker. I saw it on the road saturday, it looks coool

 

[Mace]

Funny, a stock 70 series would not be able to do the box either

 

[MoJ]

No offense to anyone that has one but.....I wheeled with a 70 a few months back and it didn't climb for s***. Not all that.

That being said, I would LOVE to have something that size.