Toyota 2L 3L 5L Turbo Install in Cabover Truck (1 Viewer)

[Dougal]

Dougal: That's a very smart idea making your AFR sensor removal as it's solely used for tuning (rather than full time exposing the 02 sensor to the harsh environment.) Which brand/model are you using that can also read beyond 20:1?

Utleymu: I've had a closer look at your previous posted pic. It seems like your collector tube of the HD exhaust manifold got shorten and angled flat/horizontal to allow your turbo to fit against the frame rail. Is that what I'm seeing? How much clearance is there behind your downpipe to the cab?
View attachment 3761963

I have an innovate motorsports gauge, but I can't find my exact model on their site: MTX-L PLUS: Advanced Digital Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge Kit, 3 ft. Sensor Cable - https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/mtx-l-plus-digital-wideband-air-fuel-ratio-gauge-kit-3-ft.html
Mine reads up to 100:1 A/F (warm idle is leaner than that) and the range is programmed by serial port. It's about 10 years old.

 

[utleymu]

-How many lbs spring is inside your GBC17-250 actuator? (i.e. 7psi?).

Not positive, but I think the GBC17 comes with a 7 PSI wastegate

-You've mentioned turning in the fuel screw for 1 turn. Is that the 5mm allen set screw? The fsm (page EG134) says injection volume increase about 3cc per 1/2 turn.

There's only one fuel adjustment screw on these mechanical pumps (that I know of) and it's located on the back of the pump. If yours has never been adjusted, it'll have an anti-tamper ring on it. Some have had success removing the anti-tamper ring while on the pump, I found it easier to just remove the bolt altogether. Just make sure you mark where it was previously set.

-How you are determining how much fuel to add? Just by looking at EGT (<1200F) & no black smoke while driving? I've been thinking of installing a AFR gauge (i.e. https://www.justraceparts.com.au/spartan-3d-diesel-wideband-air-fuel-ratio-gauge) about 1 meter downstream from turbo to measure & tune AFR above 20:1.

Yea, it's a bit of trial and error, but pretty simple since there is only one adjustment screw. I just turned it in an 1/8 of a turn at a time and hit my local freeway climb. AFR gauge would be nice, dyno tune would be even better. I don't know that either is totally necessary. From what I understand, your EGTS are the primary metric. If your AFR isn't right, your EGTS will either be high or low. Low EGT's (running lean, higher than necessary boost) isn't the worst thing, it just means you're running higher boost than necessary. Obviously, high EGT's are what you really need to avoid.

-Breather hose of which component are you referring to?

I was referring to the crankcase ventilation hose. It's what vents your crankcase, the hose coming out of the top of the valve cover and connecting to the intake manifold. When you add a turbo, you need to make sure you disconnect that hose from the intake manifold, or else you will pressurize your crank case and cause all sorts of issues. You can reroute it to your intake before the turbo, vent to atmosphere, or to an exhaust venturi. Allowing the crank to breathe becomes more important when you add a turbo. Plumbing it to the intake adds a slight vacuum, which should allow it to flow better. I don't have room to connect mine to the intake, so am hoping an exhaust venturi will accomplish the same thing (and you don't get the fumes under the cab as in when simply venting it to atmosphere).

Utleymu: I've had a closer look at your previous posted pic. It seems like your collector tube of the HD exhaust manifold got shorten and angled flat/horizontal to allow your turbo to fit against the frame rail. Is that what I'm seeing? How much clearance is there behind your downpipe to the cab?

That's correct, basically moved the turbo lower (to avoid hitting the top) and closer in to the engine (to avoid hitting the tire well wall). Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure there is still some clearance between the dump pipe and cab. The issue is, that's where all of the shift linkage components are.

I know of another guy with a 5L and AC compressor. He said the SPA manifold put the turbo is a great location and avoided the AC compressor, but it was also right where the shift linkage is. To keep the AC compressor, I think you're going to need to significantly modify the linkage components.

 

[allochris]

Amazing thank you for the feedback.

Out of curiosity I also plotted the Gbc17-250 against your 2L. All the points looks really good on the map.

I was just long distance driving (>9hrs) over the last 2 days while listening to a couple webinar series from HP Academy.

This video () kind of indirectly answered about your question about snockel-air filter-turbo inlet piping sizing. Generally, it said the determining factors for the charged pipe ID is dependent on the turbo outlet & intake inlet IDs, as increasing unnecessary piping volume in between isn't going to help with anything (I.e. heat dissipation). So along the snockel-air filter-turbo inlet path, the restriction will be the air filter. I think as long as the air filter is sized correctly and your snockel-air filter-turbo piping is >= than your turbo inlet ID, you should be fine. Air velocity will only speed up as diameter reduced, so maybe that should help the compressor wheels somewhat? (Not too sure on that one...)

This video () also mentioned targeting egt of 700-750c (1290-1380f) for heavy load/towing, but 850c (1560f) range would be ok on short burst. That seems high to me, so targeting <1200F should be very safe.

I too think venting the crankcase pressure into the exhaust will actually pull slight vaccum from the crankcase via the breather hose. If combustion chamber is already at PR2 or more, I wonder how much air leaks will be going thru the rings if the vaccum pull from the exhaust is strong enough?!?

What about a catch can like chamber, but with charcoal inside it to scrub out the oil fumes? (Similar to what we have attached on gas tank)

 

[utleymu]

Another option you might want to consider is the gbc20. I believe it is the same physical size as the gbc17, but might be a better fit for your larger displacement 5L. I'm not sure how the TD04 dimensions compare, but smaller is going to be better when it comes to getting everything packaged.

 

[Dougal]

Tubing size absolutely matters, but not in the way that petrol/gasoline tuners think. Biggest difference with us is diesels are on boost basically all the time. Lag due to volume simply isn't an issue but un-necessary restriction will kill your turbo response and add lag.

Biggest tube you can fit up to the turbo intake, but make sure it's got a nice transition into the turbo. 2" clean (mandrel bent corners) will be fine for the piping from turbo to engine.
Breather needs to go into the intake before the turbo. Putting it into the exhaust is just going to make smoke and add crankcase pressure.

Intercoolers are only needed past about 12psi boost on a diesel. You are asking for trouble putting higher boost into a high compression IDI engine that was never designed to be turbocharged. Specifically crank and head trouble.

 

[Mike NXP]

Glad I stumbled upon this thread, what a great looking Hiace and that camper setup looks perfect. From initial post to turbo charged it only took a few months lol Awesome you have people in your area willing to work on those motors / vehicles + your ability to take on custom projects

 

[mudgudgeon]

also mentioned targeting egt of 700-750c (1290-1380f) for heavy load/towing, but 850c (1560f) range would be ok on short burst. That seems high to me, so targeting <1200F should be very safe.

I ran my hdj81 (direct injection engine) at peak EGTs of 850⁰c - 900⁰c with no issues. These are peak temperatures the engine very rarely sees, and usually only for short bursts.

Indirect injected engine, I'd say err on the lower side as the head is subjected to more combustion heat through precombustion changes. I'd stick to a peak of 750⁰c as a limit for indirect injection.

Also, these temperatures are with the probe before the turbo.
Temperatures after turbo are unreliable

 

[mudgudgeon]

also, agree that snorkel piping wants to be bigger than turbo inlet. Air passing through a long pipe will have friction/drag on the walls of the pipe all the way.
A larger pipe size reduces the effect of friction on air flow

 

[AussieHJCruza]

This video () also mentioned targeting egt of 700-750c (1290-1380f) for heavy load/towing, but 850c (1560f) range would be ok on short burst. That seems high to me, so targeting <1200F should be very safe.

These ranges are fine for a direct injection engine that's made to be turbocharged and can shed heat properly.

Don't run an IDI diesel, especially not factory turbo over 1200f pre turbo.

 

[allochris]

Another option you might want to consider is the gbc20. I believe it is the same physical size as the gbc17, but might be a better fit for your larger displacement 5L. I'm not sure how the TD04 dimensions compare, but smaller is going to be better when it comes to getting everything packaged.

For comparison,
Here is the GBC14-200 for a 5L:

Here is the GBC20-300 for a 5L:

Here is the GBC22-350 for a 5L:

Here is the GT2252 for a 5L:

Here is the G25-550 for a 5L:

There sure is a lot of turbos out there...which one looks best?

 

[allochris]

For comparison,
Here is the GBC14-200 for a 5L:
View attachment 3772775

Here is the GBC20-300 for a 5L:
View attachment 3772765

Here is the GBC22-350 for a 5L:
View attachment 3772769

Here is the GT2252 for a 5L:
View attachment 3772774

Here is the G25-550 for a 5L:
View attachment 3772773

There sure is a lot of turbos out there...which one looks best?

And the GBC17-250 for a 5L:

 

[Dougal]

Garrett GT2052 was a very good match for the 3B engines.

 

[bj70bc]

ive been very happy with my td04l 13t

 

[allochris]

ive been very happy with my td04l 13t

Hi BJ70BC, would you be able share what engine you have? What brand/specs is your td04l-13T? 4/5/6cm? Cast/billet, compressor & turbine wheel blade count, etc?

Kinugawa has so many sub-options of -13T, but without compressor map it's kind of a hopeful picking exercise. My understanding is that the lowest nozzle area (i.e. 4cm diameter) would give the highest gas velocity & lowest A/R for best response at low RPM, but would also resist air flow at high rpm. What is high engine rpm for a turbo though? 4000-8000+rpm? I'll never get rev up there this diesel engine...).

Same applies with the lowest blade count (9x vs 12x) of compressor & turbine wheels: best performance @ low rpm, but suffers at high rpm.

For a 5L operating between 2000-3000rpm, is that consider as low or mid rpm range for a turbo?

Currently, when not towing a 3500lbs trailer, the 5L generally never go beyond 80% throttle on flat ground, reving about 3000rpm in 5th and maintaining just over 100kph. But when towing, it's 100% WOT all the time, maxed out & barely maintaining 80-90khr in 4th on flat ground without loosing speed, with around 15-17L/100km fuel consumption depending on how hilly the highway is. 5th is basically useless unless it's rolling downhill. 3rd @ 60-70kph climbing up the steeper grade is very common.

After turbo-ing, it would be really nice to be able to tow & stay in 4th gear @ 80-90kph for those climbs (& be able to use 5th @ partial throttle.)

Would a 4cm turbine (Kinugawa Turbo TD04-13T 4M40T Pajero Triton Shogun Challenger 94-97 - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/kinugawa-turbo-td04-13t-4m40t-pajero-triton-shogun-challenger-94-97?variant=42989533757694) be a perfect size,

or

maybe 5cm would be better?
(i.e. Kinugawa Turbo 2.4" TD04L 13T/15T 5cm T25 4-Bolt IWG TOYOTA DTS Hilux - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/24-td04l-13t15t-5cm-t25-4bolt-iwg-dtshilux?variant=42034211913982
or
Kinugawa Turbo TD04L 13T 15T 5cm T25 Internal Wategate Iveco Daily - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/kinugawa-turbo-2-4-td04l-13t-15t-5cm-t25-internal-wategate-for-iveco-daily?variant=44186060456190
or
Kinugawa Turbo 2.4" TD04L-13T T25 SAAB Conic Outlet Internal Wastegate - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/kinugawa-turbo-2-4-td04l-13t-t25-saab-conic-outlet-internal-wastegate?variant=32814147960916)

What are the determining factors to choose nozzle area?

PS: I likely will be making my own exhaust manifold & downpipe. So i'm not limited to turbo inlet & outlet flanges design.

 

[Dougal]

Hi BJ70BC, would you be able share what engine you have? What brand/specs is your td04l-13T? 4/5/6cm? Cast or compressor & turbine wheel blade count?

Kinugawa has so many sub-options of -13T. My understanding is that the lowest nozzle area (i.e. 4cm diameter) (higher gas velocity) would give the lowest A/R for best response at low RPM, but would also resist air flow at high rpm (>4000rpm?).

Same with lowest blade count of compressor & turbine wheels: best performance @ low rpm, but suffers at high rpm.

For a 5L operating between 2400-3000rpm, is that consider as low or mid rpm range?

When I'm not towing a 3500lbs trailer, I generally never need to give beyond 80% throttle on flat ground, reving about 3000rpm in 5th and maintaining just over 100kph. But when towing, i'm 100% WOT all the time, & barely maintaining 80-90khr in 4th on flat ground without loosing speed.

Would a 4cm turbine (Kinugawa Turbo TD04-13T 4M40T Pajero Triton Shogun Challenger 94-97 - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/kinugawa-turbo-td04-13t-4m40t-pajero-triton-shogun-challenger-94-97?variant=42989533757694) be a perfect size,

or

maybe 5cm (i.e. Kinugawa Turbo 2.4" TD04L 13T/15T 5cm T25 4-Bolt IWG TOYOTA DTS Hilux - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/24-td04l-13t15t-5cm-t25-4bolt-iwg-dtshilux?variant=42034211913982 or Kinugawa Turbo TD04L 13T 15T 5cm T25 Internal Wategate Iveco Daily - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/kinugawa-turbo-2-4-td04l-13t-15t-5cm-t25-internal-wategate-for-iveco-daily?variant=44186060456190 or Kinugawa Turbo 2.4" TD04L-13T T25 SAAB Conic Outlet Internal Wastegate - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/kinugawa-turbo-2-4-td04l-13t-t25-saab-conic-outlet-internal-wastegate?variant=32814147960916) would be better?

What are the determining factors?

PS: I likely will be making my own exhaust manifold & downpipe. So i'm not limited to turbo inlet & outlet flanges design.

The top one is not only smaller housing (4cm) but also smaller turbine (TD04 vs TD04L). It's always been my recommendation.

Diesels need to pull the max torque as low as possible to maximise driveability. Trying to optmise high rpm power just shrinks the power band and makes them really suck to drive.

 

[bj70bc]

Hi BJ70BC, would you be able share what engine you have? What brand/specs is your td04l-13T? 4/5/6cm? Cast or compressor & turbine wheel blade count?

Kinugawa has so many sub-options of -13T. My understanding is that the lowest nozzle area (i.e. 4cm diameter) (higher gas velocity) would give the lowest A/R for best response at low RPM, but would also resist air flow at high rpm (>4000rpm?).

Same with lowest blade count of compressor & turbine wheels: best performance @ low rpm, but suffers at high rpm.

For a 5L operating between 2400-3000rpm, is that consider as low or mid rpm range?

When I'm not towing a 3500lbs trailer, I generally never need to give beyond 80% throttle on flat ground, reving about 3000rpm in 5th and maintaining just over 100kph. But when towing, i'm 100% WOT all the time, & barely maintaining 80-90khr in 4th on flat ground without loosing speed.

Would a 4cm turbine (Kinugawa Turbo TD04-13T 4M40T Pajero Triton Shogun Challenger 94-97 - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/kinugawa-turbo-td04-13t-4m40t-pajero-triton-shogun-challenger-94-97?variant=42989533757694) be a perfect size,

or

maybe 5cm (i.e. Kinugawa Turbo 2.4" TD04L 13T/15T 5cm T25 4-Bolt IWG TOYOTA DTS Hilux - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/24-td04l-13t15t-5cm-t25-4bolt-iwg-dtshilux?variant=42034211913982 or Kinugawa Turbo TD04L 13T 15T 5cm T25 Internal Wategate Iveco Daily - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/kinugawa-turbo-2-4-td04l-13t-15t-5cm-t25-internal-wategate-for-iveco-daily?variant=44186060456190 or Kinugawa Turbo 2.4" TD04L-13T T25 SAAB Conic Outlet Internal Wastegate - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/kinugawa-turbo-2-4-td04l-13t-t25-saab-conic-outlet-internal-wastegate?variant=32814147960916) would be better?

What are the determining factors?

PS: I likely will be making my own exhaust manifold & downpipe. So i'm not limited to turbo inlet & outlet flanges design.

best to ask dougal as he originally sized this for other 3b members on the forum (if memory serves), i was just using the knowledge shared on here instead of trying to re-invent the wheel back then. A search on a browser should bring up the info.
I guess i was just giving my opinion on another manufacturer other than the one listed to increase your options, kinugawa makes a good unit and there is no turbo lag at all when sized right, i just dont know the particulars of your application

 

[allochris]

What about this kit (Pardon Our Interruption... - https://www.ebay.ca/itm/175452853214?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114151%26meid%3Deb7ec92baf5b49ddacc20cb2a6d078ca%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D405058518357%26itm%3D175452853214%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2351460%26brand%3DMamba&_trksid=p2351460.c100667.m2042)

I like that the kit comes with all the little bits and pieces so I don't need to source them 1 by 1 separately.

My understanding Mamba's CEO splitted from Kinugawa in the past & started Mamba. Any reliability concern with Mamba? vs Kinugawa?

My review research deems inconclusive....finger crossed?

I was thinking of getting a 0.5bar actuator spring so I can start with 7psi & manual boost up from there. This Mamba comes with 0.8bar, i guess around 11psi boost wouldn't be too high of a starting point?

 

[allochris]

What about this kit (Pardon Our Interruption... - https://www.ebay.ca/itm/175452853214?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114151%26meid%3Deb7ec92baf5b49ddacc20cb2a6d078ca%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D405058518357%26itm%3D175452853214%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2351460%26brand%3DMamba&_trksid=p2351460.c100667.m2042)

I like that the kit comes with all the little bits and pieces so I don't need to source them 1 by 1 separately.

My understanding Mamba's CEO splitted from Kinugawa in the past & started Mamba. Any reliability concern with Mamba? vs Kinugawa?

My review research deems inconclusive....finger crossed?

I was thinking of getting a 0.5bar actuator spring so I can start with 7psi & manual boost up from there. This Mamba comes with 0.8bar, i guess around 11psi boost wouldn't be too high of a starting point?

What about this kit (Pardon Our Interruption... - https://www.ebay.ca/itm/175452853214?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114151%26meid%3Deb7ec92baf5b49ddacc20cb2a6d078ca%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D405058518357%26itm%3D175452853214%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2351460%26brand%3DMamba&_trksid=p2351460.c100667.m2042)

I like that the kit comes with all the little bits and pieces so I don't need to source them 1 by 1 separately.

My understanding Mamba's CEO splitted from Kinugawa in the past & started Mamba. Any reliability concern with Mamba? vs Kinugawa?

My review research deems inconclusive....finger crossed?

I was thinking of getting a 0.5bar actuator spring so I can start with 7psi & manual boost up from there. This Mamba comes with 0.8bar, i guess around 11psi boost wouldn't be too high of a starting point?

So after some more research about turbine blade count (staying away from 9 blades) & a super helpful chat session with Kinugawa telling them my specific requirements (2-3k rpm, 7-14psi max with use of manual boost controller, towing, 4600red line rpm) they helped me select 6+6 cast compressor wheels & 12 turbine blades, 0.5bar actuator spring for this 4cm turbo (Kinugawa Turbo TD04-13T 4M40T Pajero Triton Shogun Challenger 94-97 - https://store.kinugawaturbosystems.com/products/kinugawa-turbo-td04-13t-4m40t-pajero-triton-shogun-challenger-94-97). Not only that, they help me find the web link to add the 5 studs-nuts kit (Fyi: 2 of 3 turbine inlet flange M10 holes arent threaded.) They also threw in for no extra charge all the oil supply & water lines, oil outlets flange-Male 19mm od barb, oil supply tee, and all the required m10x1.25 to 4an adapters & banjoe bolts-washers. The only parts they don't have are: downpipe 4 bolt flange, 3/4 oil return hose, & oil pan 3/4 male barb to 20mm bung (DIY turbo oil return adapter fitting 3/4" (OD 20mm) no welding | MAMBA TURBO - https://www.mambatek.com/en/products/diy-turbo-oil-return-adapter-fitting-34-od-20mm-no-welding). Once I receive in mail I will show a picture of all parts. Total comes to $666usd with shipping & duties. We'll cross finger to see if CBSA will ding me for 12%taxes or not when it crosses the Canadian border. Thank you everyone, especially Dougal, in helping me narrow down all the specifics by sharing your knowledge throughout the forum.

 

[GreenPump]

Congrats! Look forward to feedback on the install. Here I am a year later and my whole kit is still sitting in the box from Berrima Diesel.

 

[allochris]

Congrats! Look forward to feedback on the install. Here I am a year later and my whole kit is still sitting in the box from Berrima Diesel.

Yes, I can't wait for the Kinugawa package to show up.

BTW, I just called Innovate Motorsports inquiring about their MTX-L PLUS: Advanced Digital Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge Kit, 8 ft. Sensor Cable - https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/mtx-l-plus-digital-wideband-air-fuel-ratio-gauge-kit-8-ft.html, it turns out this AFR sensor/gauge kit #39180 can also be used for diesel application. Its webpage description doesn't mention it, but getting the usb-to-serial adapter cable #37330 (USB to Serial Adapter Cable - https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/usb-to-serial-adapter.html) and changing the gas to diesel setting via this software (SUPPORT – Innovate Motorsports - https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/) will allow the gauge to read and display up from 22.4:1 to 99.9:1.