Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (6 Viewers)

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Hi all - for those towing with their 200, how do you cope with the tiny payload capacity these things have? Our 09 has just over 1,200 lbs. payload and recently bought a 2016 that has 1,300. We are a family of 5 which realistically is close to half the payload just in our combined weight... and the kids are still growing. We are looking at travel trailers and have owned both an Airstream and an Outdoors RV previously (towed with trucks), which I've seen that people have towed both with their 200. I can't imagine I'm the only one with a family? For instance, we've kicked around another Airstream like the Flying Cloud 23 which has a loaded max weight of 6,000 but a real world tongue weight of ~900 lbs. We'd be 200+ lbs over payload with just the trailer and occupants. I'm not sure what I'm hoping for. Perhaps someone to say "these things are much beefier than competitors so feel free to disregard the lame payload capacity". I say that in jest, but I'd really hate to get rid of one of the Cruisers to buy a "proper" tow vehicle. And I'm sick of reading every travel trailer forum that says you need a HD truck to tow a pop-up. Thanks for any wisdom or words of encouragement!

Suspension setup is often the limiting factor for payload on many vehicles if not strictly setup as a tow vehicle. Which is why most passenger SUVs, minivan, 1/2 ton truck, all have payloads in the ~1200-1500 lb range. Even as the 200-series easily has bigger bones. It's a function of ride quality.

Australia has engineering and federally regulated kits to upgrade the stated capacities of the 200-series. Gross Vehicle Mass / Gross Combined Mass (GVM/GCM) all the way up to 4,200kg / 7800kg or 9,250lbs / 17,200lbs for the 200-series with nothing more than a suspension package.

I'm well over my gross rear axle weight rating and gross combined weight rating. Not saying everyone should do this without ample consideration and setup. But the 200-series is well up for the task if you want to go there.

Airbags are key to maintain good unladen ride quality while having the adjustability to increase spring rate and support when towing. Combined with a well setup WD hitch.

PXL_20220929_180241897.jpg
 
I’ve been using my LC to pull a very very similar weight trailer since 2016. My LC has gone from stock to a moderate overland build and picked up 800# or so over that time. Over that time I’ve pulled the trailer probably 25k miles across the country, over mountain passes, etc. below is my weight at a CAT scale, with a loaded trailer and family of 5, plus some gear

View attachment 3248138

I’ve dealt with windy mountain roads, steep inclines and declines, speeds of 75mph+, emergency braking, and more. The LC handles it fine, IMO. Now that said, my experience and confidence may not translate to you. And I’ve done suspension changes over the years - those can hurt or help performance, depending on how they’re done. So my truck is not stock and not identical to yours

My general impression is that 900# is a lot of tongue weight on factory springs. I’m not saying you need to go drop thousands on suspension mods, but you should look at either Firestone helper airbags or Timbren towing bump stops, as the LC rear spring weight will likely be insufficient for your setup. You should also make sure your alignment has high caster and camber on the lower side, as when you add 900# on the rear the front tires will “move” due to the front axle weight decreasing, and so you should compensate for that.
Our weights are very similar. The driving characteristics don’t seem to change much when towing versus not and thanks to the camera on my camper I actually have a view out the rear when towing instead of only seeing my spare tire in the rear view.
 
We head out six weeks from today to pick up our new Oliver Legacy Elite II travel trailer. I've been towing our brakeless 800# Hiker squaredrop, and 40+ years ago towed a 6000# boat behind my grandfather's 50 cu in '68 Sedan de Ville, but that had surge brakes. I've never used electric brakes.

In preparation, I've added Firestone air bags and a Redarc TowPro Elite to our stock '21 LC. I'll be using an Andersen weight distribution hitch. I've read through the Redarc manual a couple of times, and understand its operation, and watched a few videos.

What I don't know, is how to determine how much brake should be set on the controller. I'll be towing on pavement or gravel, so probably always in proportional mode. Should the trailer engage more than the truck? Less?

For reference, the HE without roof rack shows a capacity of 1320 pounds. I've removed the 60% second row seat, which is where the fridge lives, so similar weight. The Oliver weighs between 5-7000 pounds, with a 500 pound stated tongue weight, although I know that's load and balance dependent.

Any suggestions on where to start with the brake control setting? Thanks!

Current setup:
View attachment 3248190
Crank it until you lock up the trailer brakes, then back it off a bit. Your trailer is small and probably won’t need much braking but mine is 6000# and needs a decent amount. I still adjust anywhere from 4-6 under normal use and as high as 8 on mountain passes, even with manually shifting to lower gears.
 
I've used the Andersen hitch since 2014. Works great, weighs less than all other WD hitches I've used in the past and is by far the easiest to hitch-up. Firestone airbags were used on a trip to Alaska that covered almost 10,000 miles. I found that suspension articulation was limited when exploring without the Airstream as well as firmer suspension even with minimum PSI in the bags. Ditching the bags and adjusting the hitch drop and chain tension is what works best for me. A little lower chassis/body height while towing is better than reduced ride quality and 'trailibilty' IMHO.

My back is much happier with the lower weight of the Andersen hitch, too! :)
Hi I know it's been 5 years since this comment, but hoping to hear if towing the heavier Airstream with the 200 ever ran into trouble. I've got an ORV that runs a bit tongue heavy and an considering trading my Ram for a 200.
 
Your trailer is small and probably won’t need much braking
Yea, I might have confused things by adding my current trailer photo. We're picking up a new Oliver end of March, which empty is 4900 pounds up to 7000 pounds max.

Thanks to everyone who responded!
 
Hi I know it's been 5 years since this comment, but hoping to hear if towing the heavier Airstream with the 200 ever ran into trouble. I've got an ORV that runs a bit tongue heavy and an considering trading my Ram for a 200.

Last time @Dotar has posted is in 2017...

If I can offer input, I tow a 27FB Airstream scaled at 8k lbs, 1200lbs tongue, and ~5400lbs on the 200-series rear axle (GAWR 4,400lbs).

I've been proactively watching things since I'm towing over spec.
- Replace my rear axle bearings @130k miles. They were still in great condition.
- Transmission, I've been able to test the temp limits and it managed fine here - Torque Converter Handling of Heavy Loads - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/torque-converter-handling-of-heavy-loads.1295861/

How long is your ORV?
 
Last time @Dotar has posted is in 2017...

If I can offer input, I tow a 27FB Airstream scaled at 8k lbs, 1200lbs tongue, and ~5400lbs on the 200-series rear axle (GAWR 4,400lbs).

I've been proactively watching things since I'm towing over spec.
- Replace my rear axle bearings @130k miles. They were still in great condition.
- Transmission, I've been able to test the temp limits and it managed fine here - Torque Converter Handling of Heavy Loads - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/torque-converter-handling-of-heavy-loads.1295861/

How long is your ORV?
It's relatively short at just under 25'. Max weight is 7400, but is a bit nose heavy with the fresh water tank located towards the front and holding 650lbs water when loaded
 
Yea, I might have confused things by adding my current trailer photo. We're picking up a new Oliver end of March, which empty is 4900 pounds up to 7000 pounds max.

Thanks to everyone who responded!
I think mine is purportedly 4400# or so empty and I routinely will exceed the 6000# GWR, especially with water. You’ll get to max weight quicker than you think

Either way pretty much just turn the Redarc up, hit the brakes, and back it off until they stop skidding on pavement. Adjust from there until you feel the trailer tugging slightly when you brake. There’s no magic number though… hot brakes will apply harder than cold ones, hills and mountains will make you want to turn it up, and I’ve found downshifting (or just Regearing) makes a huge difference in the trailer braking force applied. I assume the amount of voltage applied is based on the power brake booster vacuum or something.
 
I think mine is purportedly 4400# or so empty and I routinely will exceed the 6000# GWR, especially with water. You’ll get to max weight quicker than you think

Either way pretty much just turn the Redarc up, hit the brakes, and back it off until they stop skidding on pavement. Adjust from there until you feel the trailer tugging slightly when you brake. There’s no magic number though… hot brakes will apply harder than cold ones, hills and mountains will make you want to turn it up, and I’ve found downshifting (or just Regearing) makes a huge difference in the trailer braking force applied. I assume the amount of voltage applied is based on the power brake booster vacuum or something.
Thank you! I'm hoping that coming from the squaredrop, I'm going to be able to keep the weight down. But extra space always tends to get filled...

As I run across LC200/Oliver Elite II owners, I try to accumulate details. Of six so far, half are six speed, half eight; all have stock or near stock size tires. Three Redarc TowPro, one Tekonsha, and two unknown for brake controller, and four with Firestone bags, one with Timbren SES, and one with no suspension support. All but one use the Andersen WDH.

So, with stock tires, Firestone bag, Andersen hitch, and Redac, I'm headed the right direction. Worst case, I re-gear if I have trouble in mountainous conditions.

Thanks again!
 
Suspension setup is often the limiting factor for payload on many vehicles if not strictly setup as a tow vehicle. Which is why most passenger SUVs, minivan, 1/2 ton truck, all have payloads in the ~1200-1500 lb range. Even as the 200-series easily has bigger bones. It's a function of ride quality.

Australia has engineering and federally regulated kits to upgrade the stated capacities of the 200-series. Gross Vehicle Mass / Gross Combined Mass (GVM/GCM) all the way up to 4,200kg / 7800kg or 9,250lbs / 17,200lbs for the 200-series with nothing more than a suspension package.

I'm well over my gross rear axle weight rating and gross combined weight rating. Not saying everyone should do this without ample consideration and setup. But the 200-series is well up for the task if you want to go there.

Airbags are key to maintain good unladen ride quality while having the adjustability to increase spring rate and support when towing. Combined with a well setup WD hitch.

View attachment 3248257

Isnt the 200 series literally a half ton though? It's based on the same platform as the Tundra with a smaller rear axle and smaller brakes, and the Tundra's payload was pretty modest even as half tons go.

Also, is a 17200 lbs the weight of the 200 and trailer? Or is that 17200 lbs just for the 200? That seems insane if its just the 200, seeing as most normal Load Range E tires are limited to no more than ~4000 lbs of capacity.
 
That's 9250 lbs for the tow vehicle (gross vehicle mass) and 17200 lbs combined tow vehicle and trailer (gross combined mass in Aussie terms)

Got it. That makes more sense.

Now the question is, do they tow at 80 mph in the mountains in Australia?:rofl: I feel like it would need to be pretty ideal conditions to put a 10000+ lb trailer behind a LC200. You still gotta be able to control and stop it at speed even if the suspension is upgraded.
 
On another note, is there a solid consensus about whether the 8 speed offers significant improvement in towing performance? in the threads i've read it seems like there is a lot of arguing and not a lot of consensus. The 3-6 ratios of the 8 speed seems to be a lot tighter than what the 6 speed has in that range, which is where I feel you would fall pulling hills at highway speeds, but the upper ratios above 1:1 seem pretty close(factoring in axle ratios), and the lower gears you wouldnt see once you are moving.
 
Isnt the 200 series literally a half ton though? It's based on the same platform as the Tundra with a smaller rear axle and smaller brakes, and the Tundra's payload was pretty modest even as half tons go.

Also, is a 17200 lbs the weight of the 200 and trailer? Or is that 17200 lbs just for the 200? That seems insane if its just the 200, seeing as most normal Load Range E tires are limited to no more than ~4000 lbs of capacity.

That might be one perspective. To a degree, Toyota is conservative with even the Tundra, leaving more mechanical margin on the table for maybe durability. Things like a 10.5" rear diff size where the F150 has a 9.75, and Titan has 8.5". Most other mainstream 1/2-tons including the F150 use floating 2 piston brake calipers. Tundra has fixed 4 piston calipers, more akin to perfomance cars than commuter cars.

From what I've gleaned over the years, the 200-series is built to a higher standard than the Tundra. To your point on diffs, yes the 200-series rear is a smaller 9.5" (for off-road clearance), but it's full time 4WD with support from the front diff. Yes, our brakes pre-2016 were incrementally smaller, but 2016+ got upgraded to the same size. 200-series calipers use a more expensive banjo hydraulic fitting for clearance and durability.

We know the front longer LCA from the Tundra drops into the 200-series. But it is the 200-series arm that is built stouter with some key bolts and hardware that are one size larger. Combined with a shorter arm that deals with less leverage means the 200-series arms are built to a higher standard.

I've scaled my combined rig to be ~15,400lbs, which is over spec. I've addressed a number of things including larger brakes, re-gear, and augmenting the suspension. It has no reason to work as well as it does, considering it's on 35s, but I can vouch that this platform is up to the task, driving with excellent comfort and stability.
 
That might be one perspective. To a degree, Toyota is conservative with even the Tundra, leaving more mechanical margin on the table for maybe durability. Things like a 10.5" rear diff size where the F150 has a 9.75, and Titan has 8.5". Most other mainstream 1/2-tons including the F150 use floating 2 piston brake calipers. Tundra has fixed 4 piston calipers, more akin to perfomance cars than commuter cars.

From what I've gleaned over the years, the 200-series is built to a higher standard than the Tundra. To your point on diffs, yes the 200-series rear is a smaller 9.5" (for off-road clearance), but it's full time 4WD with support from the front diff. Yes, our brakes pre-2016 were incrementally smaller, but 2016+ got upgraded to the same size. 200-series calipers use a more expensive banjo hydraulic fitting for clearance and durability.

We know the front longer LCA from the Tundra drops into the 200-series. But it is the 200-series arm that is built stouter with some key bolts and hardware that are one size larger. Combined with a shorter arm that deals with less leverage means the 200-series arms are built to a higher standard.

I've scaled my combined rig to be ~15,400lbs, which is over spec. I've addressed a number of things including larger brakes, re-gear, and augmenting the suspension. It has no reason to work as well as it does, considering it's on 35s, but I can vouch that this platform is up to the task, driving with excellent comfort and stability.
I can attest to the 200 towing. I am a little less at maybe 11,000 total rig with trailer and I run around the Colorado mountains with no problems.
 
That might be one perspective. To a degree, Toyota is conservative with even the Tundra, leaving more mechanical margin on the table for maybe durability. Things like a 10.5" rear diff size where the F150 has a 9.75, and Titan has 8.5". Most other mainstream 1/2-tons including the F150 use floating 2 piston brake calipers. Tundra has fixed 4 piston calipers, more akin to perfomance cars than commuter cars.

From what I've gleaned over the years, the 200-series is built to a higher standard than the Tundra. To your point on diffs, yes the 200-series rear is a smaller 9.5" (for off-road clearance), but it's full time 4WD with support from the front diff. Yes, our brakes pre-2016 were incrementally smaller, but 2016+ got upgraded to the same size. 200-series calipers use a more expensive banjo hydraulic fitting for clearance and durability.

We know the front longer LCA from the Tundra drops into the 200-series. But it is the 200-series arm that is built stouter with some key bolts and hardware that are one size larger. Combined with a shorter arm that deals with less leverage means the 200-series arms are built to a higher standard.

I've scaled my combined rig to be ~15,400lbs, which is over spec. I've addressed a number of things including larger brakes, re-gear, and augmenting the suspension. It has no reason to work as well as it does, considering it's on 35s, but I can vouch that this platform is up to the task, driving with excellent comfort and stability.
Great to know.

My trailer is 5500 lbs and I am 6500' in UT. I have the F150, which pulls like a freight train, but is also HUGE so its not great offroad.

I also have a GX460 which does handle the trailer reasonably well, but where it really lacks is in the HP/Torque department, especially at elevation. It can do it, but I try to keep it off the major interstates because it can really only hold 65mph in ideal conditions. Any sort of headwind and it just cant do it.

The 200 series seems to check all the boxes. I just wish I had bought one in early 2020 instead of my GX. Now the prices are insane. :rofl:
 
On another note, is there a solid consensus about whether the 8 speed offers significant improvement in towing performance? in the threads i've read it seems like there is a lot of arguing and not a lot of consensus. The 3-6 ratios of the 8 speed seems to be a lot tighter than what the 6 speed has in that range, which is where I feel you would fall pulling hills at highway speeds, but the upper ratios above 1:1 seem pretty close(factoring in axle ratios), and the lower gears you wouldnt see once you are moving.

I can attest to the 200 towing. I am a little less at maybe 11,000 total rig with trailer and I run around the Colorado mountains with no problems.

Yes, agreed she does great in the mountains. Most of my camping destinations are in the mountains to escape the heat of socal and find more interesting destinations.

RE - 8-speed. Mine is a 6-speed. I've towed on the higher end weights with 33s and stock gearing. It's doable but I re-geared for 35s (to practically stock overall gearing), and it works much better . She does great in the mountains even on steeper 7%+ grades. Credit to the burly 5.7L.

That said, I can only imagine the 8-speed does even better. The 6-speed becomes a 4-speed at my weight level as I limit it to S4. It would be great to have more ratios and more gearing in 1st for the steepest of grades and lower power (oxygen) at elevation. The 8-speed is an optimization in the end as I easily get where I need to in the 6-speed.
 
Wish I had an 8-speed for towing... someone needs to figure out a swap already :rainbow:
 

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