Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (9 Viewers)

[linuxgod]

Agree. I plan on always using the anti sway setup. Still leaning toward the Anderson. I found a tongue weight scale on Amazon pretty cheap, prob just grab one of those. And I'm def gonna run airbags based on your experience.

Not sure the scale cost but you can try this trick just using a bathroom scale and a 2x4

Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser

 

[TeCKis300]

FWIW I have an inexpensive "Pro Series" WD hitch, and it works fine. Maybe a Hensley or Anderson hitch would improve handling when passing semis, but I find with the anti-sway tightened down it handles well. I've had 2 or 3 times over the last 6 years where a HUGE gust of wind made me a bit squirrely while I was going 70+, but letting off the gas for a moment was sufficient for me to regain full control. I'm not convinced there's any type of hitch that would have made the experience significantly better in those cases - maybe a Hensley wouldn't have let the trailer sway, but instead it would have push me along with the trailer together towards the next lane. Keep in mind you're towing a wall that has 2-3x the surface area of your vehicle.

Physics. It's not just a good idea, it's the law.

In regards to recovering from a sway, it's natural to want to let off the gas and even apply some brakes. This potentially may exacerbate the sway if it's serious enough as it can put more energy into the sway. The best way to stabilize the situation is to grab the trailer brake manually to straighten things out.

Think of the car and trailer as links in a chain. Pulling from the rear link straighten things out, but pushing from the front link will bind the two. Some brake controllers do have a nice boost feature to actually be helpful in these situations by proportioning more brake on the trailer initially, such that it is safe to use the car brakes to control sway.

 

[Dan Higgins]

So here are a few pics of our setup from this past week. It all seemed to work well enough until I got home and went to a scale. It was a single, 70' scale, not a 3-axle scale. The results have me confused so I'm going to do a separate post on that.

In the pics. Lance 2285. GVWR 6000# Dry weight as delivered (sticker on side of trailer with full propane tanks already installed) 4972#. Dry tongue weight 630#. Of course our LC. Connected by a ProPride 3P hitch. Location - Mt Princeton RV park in Buena Vista, CO. (Yep, an RV park.
Sometimes full hookups are nice.)

 

[Dan Higgins]

Now the Trailer/Tongue/LC weights math puzzle from the scales.

First, the results below came from a certified scale at an RV storage lot in Englewood, CO. They do weighings for semi's, automobiles, etc. A single scale. 70' long so they can measure the total, combined weight. First you will see the actual, measured weights the gave me. Then the "derived" weight. But answer I am trying to get to is the tongue weight. They didn't actually measure the tongue weight. They claimed to have derived it from other numbers. But the result surprised and concerned me (because what they told me was higher than the max tongue weight for the LC.) So maybe you can solve this math problem for me.

Also note that when I weighed the fully loaded LC (no trailer) on a trip to the PNW a couple months ago the axles were ~3350 front and 3450 rear - total 6800. Most of the stuff that had been in the LC at that time was in the trailer or left at home for this trip but I share those numbers to provide a general idea of the weight of the LC when loaded for camping.

Actual measured weights. All but the last were with the trailer hitched up and the WD bars tensioned. (We had just arrived in town from a trip so we were still full loaded.

• "Steering" axle (they have me place only the front axle on the scale) - 3,460#
• "Combo" (both LC axles on the scale) - 7,260#
• "Gross" (LC and trailer - all axles - on the scale) - 12,700#
• "Rear" (Only the trailer axles on the scale) - 5,440#
• "Trailer" (Only the unhitched trailer so no WD in force here. Includes weight of hitch which is about 100#) - 5,920#

Derived weights (applying arithmetic to the measured weights)

• "Drives" axle (this is presumably the LC rear axle with the trailer hitched and WD in full force). "Combo" minus "Steering" = 3,800
• "Truck" (LC). "Gross" minus "Trailer) = 6,780. (This is presumably the weight of the LC w/o the trailer attached though we never weighed that.)
• Tongue Weight. 860. How did they get that number and does it make sense? If not, then what do you think the tongue weifght is according to these weights?

I am going to redo my measurements with my Sherline and with the bathroom scale method to see where they fall. But 860 is at least 100# over what I have measured in the past.

Also, the one thing I noticed when towing was that when I was on concrete block sections of highway (seams in the concrete) I would get a lot of "bounce". Some of it was surely the spacing of the seams. But I am also thinking that I don't have my tongue weight and/or WD dialed in yet which is why I took it to the scales.

 

[Sandroad]

At least a couple things don't seem to (literally) add up.

First, the calculated weight of the truck alone (6780) is only 480 lbs less than its weigh hitched up (7260). So how could tongue weight be 860?

Second, the weight of the trailer hitched up (5440) was 480 less than not hitched up (5920). So how could tongue weight be 860?

So, I'm probably missing something, but I think hitched up with WDH forces in play, you have a tongue weight of 480.

Post your Sherline scale results, which will give the deadweight of the tongue.

Edit: Forgot to mention that if you are running 480 lbs of WDH tongue weight, that's too light and might help explain the bounciness?

 

[TeCKis300]

The derived weights for tongue weight are not likely accurate in this case because of the weight distribution hitch, so take them with a grain of salt. Because the steering axle measurement (3460lbs) includes some percentage of the tongue weight in this situation, so it cannot be simply derived from the combo measurement.

Their strategies for deriving likely does not take into consideration the weight distribution applying weight back to the trailer axles and front axle of the tow rig.

In regards to the bounce, another term it's known as is "porpoising". Generally a side effect of weight distribution. More weight distribution generally causes more more porpoising. You might try reducing weight distribution some to see if it improves (though you'll lose some of the advantages of weight distribution so it's a balance).

Beautiful setup btw!!!

 

[Dan Higgins]

At least a couple things don't seem to (literally) add up.

First, the calculated weight of the truck alone (6780) is only 480 lbs less than its weigh hitched up (7260). So how could tongue weight be 860?

Second, the weight of the trailer hitched up (5440) was 480 less than not hitched up (5920). So how could tongue weight be 860?

So, I'm probably missing something, but I think hitched up with WDH forces in play, you have a tongue weight of 480.

Post your Sherline scale results, which will give the deadweight of the tongue.

Edit: Forgot to mention that if you are running 480 lbs of WDH tongue weight, that's too light and might help explain the bounciness?

My thinking is just like yours. I come up with an additional 480# of weight on the truck when hitched. The WD may distribute some weight back to the trailer. But when I subtract the weight of the "Rear" axle (trailer when hitched) from the weight of the "Trailer" when weighed by itself, unhitched, I also get 480#. That means the the WD is not distributing any weight to the trailer. Maybe that is OK. Just not what I expected.

With my Sherline that morning I had a tongue with of ~700. I get this by first settling the tongue on the Sherline. Then shaking the trailer a bit to make sure it settles in well. Maybe I shouldn't be doing that "shaking" as it always makes it go higher.

Later this week I'm going to start a square one and redo the Sherline; double checking it with the bathroom scale method. If it is anywhere near 500# at any point (e.g. before shaking it) then that would confirm the 480# tongue weight. And, yep, that is too light. I want to see it between 700-750. Of course the 860 that they derived just seems wrong to me. Which is why I posted this. I want to be sure I am thinking about this correctly.

 

[Dan Higgins]

The derived weights for tongue weight are not likely accurate in this case because of the weight distribution hitch, so take them with a grain of salt. Because the steering axle measurement (3460lbs) includes some percentage of the tongue weight in this situation, so it cannot be simply derived from the combo measurement.

Their strategies for deriving likely does not take into consideration the weight distribution applying weight back to the trailer axles and front axle of the tow rig.

In regards to the bounce, another term it's known as is "porpoising". Generally a side effect of weight distribution. More weight distribution generally causes more more porpoising. You might try reducing weight distribution some to see if it improves (though you'll lose some of the advantages of weight distribution so it's a balance).

Beautiful setup btw!!!

Thanks! I was wondering if this "porpoising" was a symptom of not having the WD dialed in. But my answer was to apply more WD, not less. My WD setup uses 1,000# bars. The hitched I used last year only had 600# bars and I don't remember any porpoising (but the rear of the LC was sagging more than I wanted.)

So my steps going forward are:

• Double check the tongue weight using the 2 methods above
• Make sure it is ~700-750 to give me a decent amount of front load
• Double check my trailer level after hook up
• Try less WD
• If the LC continues to sag too much in the rear, schedule my appointment with Slee for a suspension upgrade (I have Markuson's discarded 2721's - or maybe I should think of them as a spring transplant from Bubba.) Hadn't planned on doing that until next year.
• If necessary, consider air bags to finish leveling it out.

 

[Dotar]

I've used the Andersen hitch since 2014. Works great, weighs less than all other WD hitches I've used in the past and is by far the easiest to hitch-up. Firestone airbags were used on a trip to Alaska that covered almost 10,000 miles. I found that suspension articulation was limited when exploring without the Airstream as well as firmer suspension even with minimum PSI in the bags. Ditching the bags and adjusting the hitch drop and chain tension is what works best for me. A little lower chassis/body height while towing is better than reduced ride quality and 'trailibilty' IMHO.

My back is much happier with the lower weight of the Andersen hitch, too!

 

[Dan Higgins]

Tried an Andersen. Didn't work for me. But some love it. I already had a Hensley and after using that with a less capable vehicle (LR4) and somewhat heavier trailer I found the move to the Andersen to be less than satisfying. But the Hensley (and now the ProPride) are certainly more complex and heavier.

 

[Dotar]

There are lots of good hitches on the market. In the last 30 years, the Reese Strait-Line has been the best performing in my experience, but it's huge, heavy and a PITA to hitch-up and store both in camp and home. When I started towing at 35, performance was most important while weight and grease was just part of the territory. Now, at 65, pain in my back and lower anatomy is way more important.

I used to tow the Bambi with the Jeep JKU and a larger Airstream with a Cummins powered Dodge pickup. The Jeep/Bambi was challenged on big hills. The Dodge could pull dead elephants out of deep wells but the combination was over 50 feet long limiting camp sites and access when towing and unhitched.

The LC is the happy medium: comfortable both hitched and unhitched, plenty of power for even the steepest hills and I can get to almost all the same places as the Jeep.

BTW - I know, I know the LC is capable offroad (I wouldn't have it otherwise), it's just pinstripes don't matter on the Jeep.

What works best changes with circumstance.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Agreed. We started with a hybrid (Rockwood Roo) trailer a couple years ago. But at 64 we realized that trailer comfort was important enough to have a hardside. And as for the LC, I thought they were built for pinstripes. At least that's what my wife said when our first pinstripes showed up - "That's why we bought it."

 

[GordJ]

I may be looking at swapping out the LX to an LC primarily to get away from the LX's AHC during towing, so I will be interested in hearing how this install is doing.

I have an '08 LC with air bags and I pulled my 27'er which weighs about 6500 loaded to Dawson City Yukon and back to Vancouver last year. Round trip was about 6500 miles. Most of the way on cruise at 60 mph in drive. With a weight distributing hitch we had absolutely no issues. Arrived home with about 200,000 miles on the o.d.
It is not a big deal to haul with the LC.
Right now we are in Dawson with the trailer again but we have an '14 LX. It is a much better hauler with the AHC than the LC with airbags. Michelin AT2's and we are headed to Inuvik in the arctic circle before we turn around and couldn't be happier with our tow vehicle, especially when the Dodge drivers ask at stops what engine we have that keeps us ahead of them.
We haven't had the sway control kick in and the adaptive cruise is amazing. In the curvier parts farther up the Alaska highway I set the cruise at 100 Km's (Canadian for 60 mph) and if we come to a slower curve I kick the cruise down ( it goes in 5 Kmh's increments) and it slows or gently brakes to the chosen speed. The paddle shifters are the bomb for downshifting on hills and the cruise kicks off in third or second gear.
After learning about Archimedes in school I don't understand how short levers six inches apart in the front are going to provide this sway control that is mentioned, especially if it allows the truck to turn but I haven't seen any need for more than a good weight distributing hitch and the Prodigy brake controllers which have worked very well on both rigs.
Of course I have about 4500 miles to go with the LX this year so who knows what's coming. Next stop Arctic Circle.

 

[ntsaint]

After looking at literally EVERY TT option out there over the past 4 days (no joke) it looks like it's going to be a 28' trailer for me. 5300# dry weight, 650# on the tongue. Gonna order a 2018 model next week.

Wife is pushing hard for a 32' 6500# 650# tongue weight model, but even tho that's technically doable I don't want to get that close and always be worrying about how much all my gear weighs. Plus 32' is really long.

Based on everything I've read here will def be using a WD hitch and possibly airbags. At almost 3000# under the tow rating of the truck I can't see where this could possibly be an issue.

Really great tech thread here. Loving it.

 

[tabraha]

@ntsaint Just be sure to get a slide out if you can Andy! It will outweigh any extra length the cost/weight offsets. I've advised tons of friends and have never heard anyone regret getting a slide. 28' with a slide will be tons more usable/comfortable than 31' with no slide.

PS, you keeping the 100? Wish I wasn't so emotionally attached to mine!

 

[ntsaint]

@ntsaint Just be sure to get a slide out if you can Andy! It will outweigh any extra length the cost/weight offsets. I've advised tons of friends and have never heard anyone regret getting a slide. 28' with a slide will be tons more usable/comfortable than 31' with no slide.

PS, you keeping the 100? Wish I wasn't so emotionally attached to mine!

Yeah both models I'm considering have slides. The Winnebago 2455BHS is prob gonna be the winner, it's the one I reference above.

If I'm being honest I would prefer the longer/heavier one too, 27BHSS. Way more room but like I say just feels like it will be too big behind the 200. If someone here thinks otherwise lemme know.

We started this whole deal intent on buying a 23D airstream. But after seeing them we decided w 2 young kids that it was just too small. And the one that isn't too small is $90k. So the mother of all TT searches began. We looked at them all. Being new to a TT I had to do a lot of research. It's a very strange industry outside of Airstream.

The 100 stays yes. It's like a family member. The 40 is prolly getting sold tho.

@tabraha love your 200. I have those same tires. They are great.

 

[TonyP]

Some damn good info in this thread. I'm thinking of making a life-change and getting a travel trailer to live in full-time. This stuff is helpful.

 

[purdytj]

I have a 2015 Livin'Lite 28BHS for sale if interested. It is all aluminum and composites, no wood and no steel (except axles, step). It is 29' long from ball to bumper. PM me if interested.

 

[purdytj]

I have a 2015 Livin'Lite 28BHS for sale if interested. It is all aluminum and composites, no wood and no steel (except axles, step). It is 29' long from ball to bumper. PM me if interested.

Photos and info at CampLite

(No more thread hijack!) We really enjoy the camper but are buying a house, need the cash, and are downsizing to an overlanding trailer setup with roof top tent.

 

[TonyP]

Nice setup! When this rental property sells I'll shoot you a PM.