LX570 Tow Report (1 Viewer)

[TeCKis300]

In regards to hitch shanks, there's two considerations:
1) Drops ball down to keep trailer level
2) Extends ball further away from the bumper

For #1, it's not a big deal other than it's important to keep the trailer level. Running trailer nose high has been known to be a liability as it can create undesirable weight transfer dynamics and stability issues, so best to use as much drop as necessary to keep the trailer level. The 200-series has a relatively high hitch so expect to use some drop. Alternatively, or in tandem, can lift the trailer axles too. I have Dexter 2.625" lift blocks on my Dexter axles, and .6" taller tires (.3" lift), for a total of 3" lift on my Airstream.

#2, this geometry is critical to overhung bumper pull hitches. It is a primary factor for rig stability that can't be emphaiszed enough. Close and tight as possible, and extra projection can be a liability.

It's generally understood that wheelbase is good for towing stability. Because this gives the front axle more leverage and control, aka stability, against overhung loads and forces at the trailer ball. So it's not just wheelbase, but wheelbase to rear overhang length (distance from rear axle to tow ball). The 200-series has about a 2:1 wheelbase to rear overhang ratio. Adding a 1" in extension to the drop hitch, is equivalent to giving up 2" in wheelbase when it comes to stability.

To answer your question @Hksir , shorter stinger projection will be better for hitch weight, stability, and porpoising control. I cut my shank down 2" and it make a notable difference as my rig is really stable with practically no porpoising.

Point is, I would caution rear bumpers that push the tow ball rearward.

 

[linuxgod]

In regards to hitch shanks, there's two considerations:
1) Drops ball down to keep trailer level
2) Extends ball further away from the bumper

For #1, it's not a big deal other than it's important to keep the trailer level. Running trailer nose high has been known to be a liability as it can create undesirable weight transfer dynamics and stability issues, so best to use as much drop as necessary to keep the trailer level. The 200-series has a relatively high hitch so expect to use some drop. Alternatively, or in tandem, can lift the trailer axles too. I have Dexter 2.625" lift blocks on my Dexter axles, and .6" taller tires (.3" lift), for a total of 3" lift on my Airstream.

#2, this geometry is critical to overhung bumper pull hitches. It is a primary factor for rig stability that can't be emphaiszed enough. Close and tight as possible, and extra projection can be a liability.

It's generally understood that wheelbase is good for towing stability. Because this gives the front axle more leverage and control, aka stability, against overhung loads and forces at the trailer ball. So it's not just wheelbase, but wheelbase to rear overhang length (distance from rear axle to tow ball). The 200-series has about a 2:1 wheelbase to rear overhang ratio. Adding a 1" in extension to the drop hitch, is equivalent to giving up 2" in wheelbase when it comes to stability.

To answer your question @Hksir , shorter stinger projection will be better for hitch weight, stability, and porpoising control. I cut my shank down 2" and it make a notable difference as my rig is really stable with practically no porpoising.

Point is, I would caution rear bumpers that push the tow ball rearward.

For #2 I read it adds about 1% additional TW (and thusly 1% less front axle weight) per inch of shank extension. I found a fairly advanced calculator online at one point and did the math based on our existing rear overhang from the axle and that showed less impact (about 1% total). Screenshots of what it calculated are below, so feel free to re-do my maths if anyone disagrees.

It would be better to extend the coupler on the trailer, but that's harder to do in most cases, and less portable to other trailers.

I didn't notice significant differences in porpoising, not any real difference in sway or handling. There probably is some for sure, but it's not significant in my experience.

The details (for those who care):
I weighed my truck with just 2 people and a full tank of gas and with my bumper it's currently 3540 front/3700 rear.

I did do a weigh-in while traveling this time, and my additional gear and people shown below was basically the same. Now I have a ~50# drawer and a ~220# bumper on the vehicle. I definitely had some fresh water in the trailer. My front axle was 3300# and my rear was 5420# and the trailer axles were 5360#. I am not sure the TW as I didn't weight it separately but even with maybe 7-8 gallons of fresh water in the tank (which sits forward of the trailer axle). My old #s shows 4960 on the rear axle, so add 50# drawer and 220# bumper as shown above and I'm at 5230. There's the weight of the spare off the rear so whatever effect that has on the rear axle weight plus another 100# of water in the trailer (assume at least half of that is on the tongue) and I'd wager I'm at 5300# at least without accounting for the longer shank. Diff is 120# for the extra 7" shank length which is about 2.5% weight penalty... not that far off from the 1% shown by the original calculator.

Calculator says:

 

[Swampmonger]

Do you all think it would be safe for me to tow a brand new empty 25' Airstream without a WD hitch of any kind from the dealer to the storage facility (10ish mi)? I want to install one myself.

 

[TeCKis300]

For #2 I read it adds about 1% additional TW (and thusly 1% less front axle weight) per inch of shank extension. I found a fairly advanced calculator online at one point and did the math based on our existing rear overhang from the axle and that showed less impact (about 1% total). Screenshots of what it calculated are below, so feel free to re-do my maths if anyone disagrees.

It would be better to extend the coupler on the trailer, but that's harder to do in most cases, and less portable to other trailers.

I didn't notice significant differences in porpoising, not any real difference in sway or handling. There probably is some for sure, but it's not significant in my experience.

The details (for those who care):
I weighed my truck with just 2 people and a full tank of gas and with my bumper it's currently 3540 front/3700 rear.

I did do a weigh-in while traveling this time, and my additional gear and people shown below was basically the same. Now I have a ~50# drawer and a ~220# bumper on the vehicle. I definitely had some fresh water in the trailer. My front axle was 3300# and my rear was 5420# and the trailer axles were 5360#. I am not sure the TW as I didn't weight it separately but even with maybe 7-8 gallons of fresh water in the tank (which sits forward of the trailer axle). My old #s shows 4960 on the rear axle, so add 50# drawer and 220# bumper as shown above and I'm at 5230. There's the weight of the spare off the rear so whatever effect that has on the rear axle weight plus another 100# of water in the trailer (assume at least half of that is on the tongue) and I'd wager I'm at 5300# at least without accounting for the longer shank. Diff is 120# for the extra 7" shank length which is about 2.5% weight penalty... not that far off from the 1% shown by the original calculator.

Calculator says:
View attachment 3084304
View attachment 3084305

On horizontal ball projection, it's not so much a function of static weight as it is a challenge to dynamics. Weight, stability, and porpoising can be mitigated to a degree with WD hitches. But there will be more fundamental stability with less WD tension necessary when keeping overhung loads/forces close and tight to the rear axle.

One way to think of it is a seesaw about the rear axle. Want to put the front axle on as long as a lever bar as possible (wheelbase) while keeping the trailer ball lever (overhang) as short as possible.

Agreed that extending the trailer tongue itself would be ideal. It's not a bad strategy either as mobile welders replace couplers all the time for older trailers. I had a utility trailer done for less than $400. Could probably find one with an extended snout.

 

[TeCKis300]

Do you all think it would be safe for me to tow a brand new empty 25' Airstream without a WD hitch of any kind from the dealer to the storage facility (10ish mi)? I want to install one myself.

Sure, as long as you keep the speed down. That's one of the larger variables to sway events.

Are you an LX or LC? Or LC with aftermarket suspension or airbags? Asking as 25' Airstreams have pretty large tongue weights, probably 800+ lbs and she'll squat pretty good without WD.

 

[linuxgod]

On horizontal ball projection, it's not so much a function of static weight as it is a challenge to dynamics. Weight, stability, and porpoising can be mitigated to a degree with WD hitches. But there will be more fundamental stability with less WD tension necessary when keeping overhung loads/forces close and tight to the rear axle.

One way to think of it is a seesaw about the rear axle. Want to put the front axle on as long as a lever bar as possible (wheelbase) while keeping the trailer ball lever (overhang) as short as possible.

Agreed that extending the trailer tongue itself would be ideal. It's not a bad strategy either as mobile welders replace couplers all the time for older trailers. I had a utility trailer done for less than $400. Could probably find one with an extended snout.

Don’t get me wrong I agree a shorter hitch shank is better, and I’m sure physics comes into play in handling dynamics, especially as you push weight/length/height/speed of the trailer. Just noting that in my experience the impact on weight (and vehicle height, which I recorded but isn’t shown here) was surprisingly small. If you have a 32’ trailer with a 1200# tongue every inch will matter, but in my anecdotal experience I wouldn’t hesitate use a longer shank to compensate for the tire carrier interference.

 

[TeCKis300]

If you have a 32’ trailer with a 1200# tongue every inch will matter

I think you hit the nail on the head. This is all academic best practice in the end. And with larger and heavier loads, may become more important.

I'm not quite 32', but 28' @ 1200lb tongue. Over GCWR at ~15,100lbs. With 35s. So I want to make sure I get everything right to ensure some measure of safety.

 

[coleAK]

I have the equalizer hitch sway bar. Would having a longer hitch be a good idea because of the tongue weight?

View attachment 3084228

If anything shorter shank. I had mine cut down and re drilled.

 

[sanremigio]

Hi, Im new here. Wanted to ask what my options are for towing? I have a 2011 LX570. As far as my research shows, the LX570 has a tow hitch cover to access the receiver. See photo, mine doesnt? Maybe previous owner swapped his bumper? Do I have to mount a receiver below the frame or is it as simple as putting a hole onto my rear bumper. Advise is much appreciated!

 

[TeCKis300]

Hi, Im new here. Wanted to ask what my options are for towing? I have a 2011 LX570. As far as my research shows, the LX570 has a tow hitch cover to access the receiver. See photo, mine doesnt? Maybe previous owner swapped his bumper? Do I have to mount a receiver below the frame or is it as simple as putting a hole onto my rear bumper. Advise is much appreciated!

View attachment 3092782

I've never seen an LX from the states configured like that. Where you able to do any discovery to figure out if it has a tow hitch?

 

[TeCKis300]

Just re-weighed my rig to check the WD after re-working the suspension for AHC Long Travel. I'm also on a longer road trip to Yellowstone with an extended family of 6. So loaded to the gills. Hit a high watermark for Gross Combined Rig Weight (GCWR) at 15,620 lbs . I didn't get on the scales exactly right so looks like 1 set of trailer axles was on the same plate as the LX rear axle. Still useful as I can distill the following numbers. WD is in the right ballpark.

Even at this grotesque weight, the LX rides like a cloud, so far 2k miles into the trip. 42 psi front tire, 46 psi rears, 18 psi rear airbags. The family and I couldn't be more satisfied with the ride and comfort. The new suspension globes, shocks, and fluid seems to have made a solid improvement. Lots of mountain roads, 75-80mph in stretches, on 35s. There's discussion in other threads for re-gear, and I'm still of the opinion that even at my weight, 4.3s are the right re-gear for anything up to 35s. Torque converter lock-up is spot on. 4th gear allows some margin of additional power to keep lock-up even on small grades and wind. Gas mileage has been rough at 8 - 9MPG most tanks, as we're trying to make distance holding higher speeds with most stretches increasing in elevation. Fortunately gas prices outside of CA have mostly been in the $4 range.

Steer Axle: 3,120 lbs
Rear Axle: 5,460 lbs
LX: 8,580 lbs
Payload: ~2200 lbs
Trailer axles: 7,040 lbs
Tongue: ~1200 lbs
Trailer Gross: ~8,250 lbs
GCWR: 15,620 lbs

Compared to a previous weigh in with 33s, no sliders, no winch, family of 4.

 

[Swampmonger]

Moving ever closer. Our Airstream is at the dealer. We do our walkthrough next Tuesday. Covered storage is set. Propride is sitting ready for installation. Redarc brake controller is installed.

I really hope this works. I know I'm pushing the limits of my 200, but until it's all put together I won't know the final numbers.

SQOD: would removing the third row seats reduce weight enough to offer any benefit at all?

 

[a200]

What model? Good choice on the AS. Buy it for life.

 

[Swampmonger]

What model? Good choice on the AS. Buy it for life.

We got a Globetrotter 25 FBT. Initial inspection complete, final inspection and tutorial coming up, first trip booked.

 

[yotanewb]

So, this thread is several years old, but has a lot of the info I am looking for. I currently have a 03 LC and am looking to upgrade to a 200 series. I also currently have. 2017 F-150 Max Tow package and a 2017 Lance 2375. It’s GVWR is 8400lbs. I weighed it last year and truck and trailer were a little 13,500 pounds with full load of people, dogs, gear etc. I’ve been debating back and forth of buying the 200 and seeing how it goes.
Any of you here think I’m stupid for going this route? Because I could get into 2017/18 LX and get back to having 1 vehicle instead of 2. Or maybe a smaller truck as a daily.

 

[dubyahard]

So, this thread is several years old, but has a lot of the info I am looking for. I currently have a 03 LC and am looking to upgrade to a 200 series. I also currently have. 2017 F-150 Max Tow package and a 2017 Lance 2375. It’s GVWR is 8400lbs. I weighed it last year and truck and trailer were a little 13,500 pounds with full load of people, dogs, gear etc. I’ve been debating back and forth of buying the 200 and seeing how it goes.
Any of you here think I’m stupid for going this route? Because I could get into 2017/18 LX and get back to having 1 vehicle instead of 2. Or maybe a smaller truck as a daily.

I don't think you're stupid. I love having one vehicle that can do it all so well. I tow a Lance 2185 with my 2008 and the only thing bad about it is the MPG. I bet the 8-speed would tow even better. Having a good weigh distribution hitch will make a big difference too.

 

[NKP Garage]

So, this thread is several years old, but has a lot of the info I am looking for. I currently have a 03 LC and am looking to upgrade to a 200 series. I also currently have. 2017 F-150 Max Tow package and a 2017 Lance 2375. It’s GVWR is 8400lbs. I weighed it last year and truck and trailer were a little 13,500 pounds with full load of people, dogs, gear etc. I’ve been debating back and forth of buying the 200 and seeing how it goes.
Any of you here think I’m stupid for going this route? Because I could get into 2017/18 LX and get back to having 1 vehicle instead of 2. Or maybe a smaller truck as a daily.

how far do you tow it? Do you know the weight of the Lance 2375? If your F150 and gear in the truck is around 6000 lbs and total was 13,500, then the camper is probably in the 7500 lbs range.

 

[yotanewb]

how far do you tow it? Do you know the weight of the Lance 2375? If your F150 and gear in the truck is around 6000 lbs and total was 13,500, then the camper is probably in the 7500 lbs range.

I can’t remember what just the trailer weighed by my truck is heavier than 6k. 10 ply tires, running boards, tonneau cover, heavier wheels. I wanna say truck alone was 6300 with the bed loaded.
I’m gonna re-weight it before I make a decision. But it looks like it’ll be close.
And it seems like the seat of your pants experience will be fine.
I’m just not trying to get myself and my wife killed while towing

The farthest I’ve been in one day is about 240 miles from North Texas to the Hill country. But the Ozarks and Colorado are calling my name

 

[coleAK]

I can’t remember what just the trailer weighed by my truck is heavier than 6k. 10 ply tires, running boards, tonneau cover, heavier wheels. I wanna say truck alone was 6300 with the bed loaded.
I’m gonna re-weight it before I make a decision. But it looks like it’ll be close.
And it seems like the seat of your pants experience will be fine.
I’m just not trying to get myself and my wife killed while towing

The farthest I’ve been in one day is about 240 miles from North Texas to the Hill country. But the Ozarks and Colorado are calling my name

As I mentioned all over this thread my ORV is ~7k lbs loaded and I tow it all over AK and Canada 7-10k miles a Summer. I’m rarely over 60 mph and almost never over 65 mph. Only thing that consistently bothers me is dismal MPG (8-8.5) which leads to frequent stops for gas every 100-150 miles and the need to carry fuel cans when i go “up north” as gas stations are farther spread out then I can travel.

Also if I was in a flat part of the world not sure I would have the LX as a tow rig, that is if I was in the space where I’d want to run 70mph+ for hours.

 

[TeCKis300]

I can’t remember what just the trailer weighed by my truck is heavier than 6k. 10 ply tires, running boards, tonneau cover, heavier wheels. I wanna say truck alone was 6300 with the bed loaded.
I’m gonna re-weight it before I make a decision. But it looks like it’ll be close.
And it seems like the seat of your pants experience will be fine.
I’m just not trying to get myself and my wife killed while towing

The farthest I’ve been in one day is about 240 miles from North Texas to the Hill country. But the Ozarks and Colorado are calling my name

I think you can see above that I'm at 15,620lbs combined doing my longest 3k mile trip to Yellowstone for SoCal with an extended family of 6. Over some of the largest mountain ranges and highest speed stretches through Arizona. She did great and I have no desire for any other tow rig from a towing perspective with no lack for power, stability, or towing smoothness. Agility is exemplary towing longer trailers. Add to that, no other single vehicle will do what the 200-series will do with room for 8. Off-roads like a beast. Coddles the family in 4-zone A/C, Mark Levinson audio, and leather lined luxury.

A shortcoming as others have mentioned is MPG, but more specifically range. ~10MPG is the norm towing that size trailer. She'll hold 80MPH easily (with a well dialed in WD hitch) provided you're willing to allow her to drink at 7MPG. Honestly those numbers come with the territory for every tow vehicle towing larger trailers. The factory tank size is on par with just about every other 1/2-ton save for the Tundra and Ford that have extended capacity tanks. With a stock rig with HT tires, 230mi range at reasonable speeds works fine and I did that for a number of years.

The 200-series can be fitted with an aftermarket LRA aux tank which handily solves that issue for a combined capacity of 38G. Range of 500mi solo or 300mi towing in my setup with larger 35s.