Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (20 Viewers)

[houstonfj40]

I followed original thread post and installed the http://www.amazon.com/Firestone-W237604164-Coil-Rite-Kit/dp/B003HJ3JOA?tag=ihco-20
Bags with my stock springs. Worked great pulling an 18’ trailer and 40 for two CO/Tx trips and one to Hot Springs. Had OME springs installed and they look a bit skinny with the bags installed. Haven’t put anything but the 5-10lbs I usually carry on them to keep from tearing.

Doesnthe fit look right? Thinking the bags are oversized but maybe because I haven’t seen OME with bags? Any idea?

Thanks.

 

[linuxgod]

Doesnthe fit look right? Thinking the bags are oversized but maybe because I haven’t seen OME with bags? Any idea?

The fit looks fine. The bags as polyurethane and will stretch a bit when you inflate them the first couple times. They never quite shrink back to original size. If you eventually remove them you'll find the springs leave a small impression around the outside where they sit when "neutral" with ~5psi. None of it impacts handling as far as I can tell.

I just bought a new trailer and I'm selling my old one. The TW is higher on the new trailer, so I will probably give my current WD hitch to the new trailer owner. Thinking I may try the Andersen WD hitch, so I will weigh into this thread this summer as to the need for airbags with my new setup

 

[TeCKis300]

^Let's see the new trailer and rig setup when you get her dialed in!

In regards to the Andersen WD hitch, I've used it before on a smaller 23' 5500 lb TT with my 100-series. I do really like it for smaller less weighty setups or rigs that need less WD. For that use, it works brilliantly. Hitches up easy, is super light weight, and looks great.

I would suggest against it for your new larger TT. The Anderson WD hitch achilles heal is the inability to do much weight transfer. It's great for transferring some weight and excellent for stability, but again, it not as effective at transferring larger weights. Our rigs, because of the short wheelbase and longer rear overhang really needs more weight transfer. Trying to do that will on the Anderson will cause the poly bushings and braking material within the ball shank to prematurely wear.

I've been extremely satisfied by Equalizer WD setup. But technology has progressed and there are new products out that one up the Equilizer, without adding complexity. I'd look into the new Reese Steadi-Flex which is very similar to the Equilizer, but with tapered bars. This addresses one of the primary disadvantages of the Equalizer being too stiff. Another great hitch is the Blue-Ox Sway Pro.

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks @TeCKis300. I had read some people saying they had 1000#+ tongue weight and the WD was great and the Andersen was amazing, and others who were complaining if you could get 200# transferred they were shocked.

My ProSeries has been fine but the dry TW on the Lance is >50% more, so I'm sure I will exceed the 550# max the ProSeries is rated at. The biggest complaint I've read about Equalizer/BlueOx/etc is noise, second being bounciness. I'll have to read up on the Reese.

The new trailer is in storage about 70-80min from me right now while I sell my old trailer. Camping World will dewinterize it for me mid-April and I'll pick it up then. Until then here are the dealer pics without at Land Cruiser attached

Miscellaneous Pics/Lance 2185 Trailer - The Silver Family Photo Gallery

If anyone is interested pics of my old trailer (currently for sale) are at http://www.rootflags.org/surveyor/.

 

[TeCKis300]

Congrats on the 2185! That was super high on my list. And I don't think anything has a more effective floor plan than that model.

Having run both the Anderson and Equalizer...

Anderson will porpoise too from my experience, though the design mitigates some of it. It's good for light weight trailers or rigs that don't need much weight transfer. Without enough weight transfer, the rear of the TV will sag, but more importantly, not enough weight will be translated to plant the front axle and assure front axle caster and stability.

My Equalizer is silent...seriously. They've added a plastic pad accessory - https://www.amazon.com/Equal-i-zer-95015150-Sway-Bracket-Jacket/dp/B007HRJNIE - that quiets things down without grease on the WD bars. And some grease on the hitch head in the proper friction spots keeps things running smooth. It's only noisy for those that run things "dry". I'm pleasantly surprised, but my Equilizer doesn't have much porpoising. At least no worse than the Anderson in my previous setup. I can't comment on the Reese or BlueOx as I've not used those.

 

[linuxgod]

Congrats on the 2185! That was super high on my list. And I don't think anything has a more effective floor plan than that model.

Thanks. I may end up going the equalizer route. Honestly I'm less concerned with porpoising and much more concerned with weight transfer.

I think I would've preferred a single entry door and having extra storage cabinets in that spot, but otherwise I agree particularly with 3 kids it's about the best layout I can imagine given the length. (The Dutchmen Aerolite 242BHSL was first until I realized the carrying capacity was absurdly low). And I can see why the dual entry doors are becoming more common - with the slide in there's maybe 1' of space to walk by the kitchen.

 

[John E Davies]

I have an Oliver that is about 6000 pounds ready to tow, tongue weight 620 to 720 pounds, depending on what is in the front cargo basket. I have stock suspension and no airbags.

I use the Anderson (2 inch) and it works pretty well, I love the light weight and general minimalist design. It does a great job with this weight trailer, in settling the 200, no issues at all with a light front end. It is a factory option for the Olivers, and most owners either like it, or really like it; few are dissatisfied. Tow vehicles are mostly pickups, but those towing with mid sized and larger SUVs also report good results.

OTH the design does wear the ball, depending on the fit of the coupler... My trailer has a Bulldog and the inside of the forging is a little uneven at the hinge in back. The Anderson pushes forward hard on the ball with several thousand pounds of force when tensioned correctly. This caused my ball to wear badly at first, even though lubed. Anderson admits this happens, but they also say that the wear will stop after the parts seat with each other. This appears to be the case here. The wear was extreme for 700 miles, then it tapered off to nothing additional.

They have updated the angle of the ball and friction material, and changed the triangle plate, due to noise complaints (binding of the ball shank, causing a Spawn of Satan shriek when maneuvering tightly), and hopefully those issues are resolved. Mine is the original design and does not make any noise yet, with about 1600 miles on it.

I do suggest strongly that if your trailer is heavy, for you to install a 2 5/16 coupler on it and use the matching larger Anderson. The 2 inch is rated at 10,000 pounds and is perhaps a little inadequate at this weight range, simply due to the smaller surface (bearing) area. The bigger ball is rated at 14,000K. The larger diameter should help dramatically with any ball wear. If I have any issues with my hitch I will upgrade both the ball and coupler to the larger size.

Anti Sway Weight Distribution Hitch With 2-5/16" Ball

I personally would be very uncomfortable regularly towing more than 6000 pounds behind a 200, but your tolerance may be different than mine.

These two articles might be educational, you may need to register (free) to access the forums.

How To: Anderson Weight Distributing Hitch CENTER FRAME location - Oliver Travel Trailers

Bulldog coupler destroys Anderson ball - Oliver Travel Trailers

John Davies
Spokane WA

 

[TeCKis300]

^ I really enjoyed the Anderson as well. It's a fine hitch for the right application.

Thanks. I may end up going the equalizer route. Honestly I'm less concerned with porpoising and much more concerned with weight transfer.

I think I would've preferred a single entry door and having extra storage cabinets in that spot, but otherwise I agree particularly with 3 kids it's about the best layout I can imagine given the length. (The Dutchmen Aerolite 242BHSL was first until I realized the carrying capacity was absurdly low). And I can see why the dual entry doors are becoming more common - with the slide in there's maybe 1' of space to walk by the kitchen.

A caution for the Equilizer. If your intent is to visit campsites off the beaten path, just know that the Equalizer has super stiff WD bars that don't deflect much. It's both it's greatest quality for stability on-road, yet a liability for uneven off-road terrain that can strain the trailer chassis and vehicle hitch. One will want to remove the WD bars (super easy) prior to off-road sections.

Interestingly, the LX570 has a nice interaction with the WD bars. I can set my WD more relaxed. Because at speed, AHC lowers the suspension which has the effect of increasing WD tension exactly when it's needed for higher speeds. Also, when I enter gas stations, or off-road, I generally will put AHC in H, which further relaxes the WD bars.

 

[m3fan]

How high of jack stands are folks using for the Firestone airbag install? I've installed these on my 4G 4R (twice, one bag developed a leak over time) and on my previous 100 series. On both cars (though mostly on the 100), I've run into a situation where I can't lower the axle any more and the springs are still fairly tight on their perches. Then it gets into spring compressors and other nonsense in the heat of the moment to get the springs out and back in. On the video from the Australian guy he's got absolutely giant "chassis stands". My jack stands have a maximum height of 17 5/16".

 

[Sandroad]

How high of jack stands are folks using for the Firestone airbag install? I've installed these on my 4G 4R (twice, one bag developed a leak over time) and on my previous 100 series. On both cars (though mostly on the 100), I've run into a situation where I can't lower the axle any more and the springs are still fairly tight on their perches. Then it gets into spring compressors and other nonsense in the heat of the moment to get the springs out and back in. On the video from the Australian guy he's got absolutely giant "chassis stands". My jack stands have a maximum height of 17 5/16".

I had no problem popping the springs out for the airbag install with my 24" high 6 ton stands. I think it was just enough, though.

 

[linuxgod]

@m3fan, I just have regular stands (well, SUV stands, taller than car stands), but I put them on blocks of wood to add another ~6" or so. I still had the same issue you had even though my axle was hanging, but I've heard that removing the rear panhard rod will make it much easier.

 

[m3fan]

@m3fan, I just have regular stands (well, SUV stands, taller than car stands), but I put them on blocks of wood to add another ~6" or so. I still had the same issue you had even though my axle was hanging, but I've heard that removing the rear panhard rod will make it much easier.

Ah-ha, yes. It's funny that on every DIY of this on every car I've done it on the springs just easily pop out, then when I try it, every single time, it's a total battle to get them out. Ugh. Not looking forward to it.

 

[Crab Sack]

Just sold my Andersen Hitch and went back to the Equalizer.
I usually tow with the 18 Tundra but highway speeds were often times white knuckle rides due to the sway. Tail wagging the dog.
I am towing a 28 foot TT that weighs in between 5600 and 6500 depending on load.
The equalizer would prob work best with a 3/4 ton truck and light trailer combo.
I tried the Andersen with a Platinum Sequoia with AHC and it was horrible.

 

[linuxgod]

Ah-ha, yes. It's funny that on every DIY of this on every car I've done it on the springs just easily pop out, then when I try it, every single time, it's a total battle to get them out. Ugh. Not looking forward to it.

The driver's side is easy if the KDSS valves are open 2 turns.

The passenger's side is tough. Unbolting the 4 KDSS stabilizer bar bolts (two on either side of the diff) helps (though getting them correctly realigned is a total PITFA in my experience), and you'll want to unbolt the diff breather tube. Try unbolting the panhard rod when you do it and let me know if the PS spring comes out easily - I have a feeling that might be the missing step.

 

[linuxgod]

With my new(er) Lance 2185 trailer this year I moved from the Pro Series hitch to the Blue Ox. The PS was rated at 550# and my Lance TW is 780# so I needed a hitch rated at 1000#. I ran my Blue Ox on the 11th link, which got my front within 1/4" of unloaded and the rear within 3/4". Dead drop was about 3" in the rear with 5psi in my air bags, and since the Tough Dog rears are 240#/in springs that implies 700-800# on the tongue. A few observations:

• It really does eliminate "sway". That doesn't mean you don't still get pushed/pulled around a bit by 18 wheelers, but it felt less than with the Pro Series and when you do get pushed/pulled your TV and the trailer move in lock step. That said I would estimate the Pro Series with single friction anti-sway eliminated about 90% of sway, so while it does feel a little better you're still towing a house with far more surface area than your TV.
• I imagine that the Equalizer, Fastway, E2, and Reese hitches which all claim to eliminate sway perform similarly.
• The Blue Ox is quiet. Aside from the occasional pop on really sharp turns (forward or reverse) it doesn't make any noise. Much improved from the friction anti-sway which creaked and groaned like crazy when making a turn
• Also no issues straightening the wheel after a turn. With the friction anti-sway if it was tightened down a lot sometimes the steering wheel wouldn't quite come back to center until I'd drive a bit.
• With my 2" Tough Dog lift the stock 9" drop shank from Blue Ox wasn't tall enough with my Lance, where the top of the hitch sits at 21" when level. I had to reuse my Curt 12" drop shank, which worked perfectly.

I would've liked to have tried the Anderson hitch, but given how I'm shifting several hundred pounds off the hitch I'm glad I went with the Blue Ox.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Geoff, the tongue weight of your 2185 is about 60# heavier than that of my 2285. But the ProPride hitch I am using weighs 200#. So the combination is over 900#. I am still wondering if that is an issue though the PP hitch does have 1000# WD bars. I am wondering if I need to get the combined weight of the tongue weight and added weight of the hitch below the specified max of 850#. How much does your full Blue Ox setup weigh/add? I’m not worried about blowing much the rear settles with the weight. (My stiffer springs have the rear within an inch of unloaded and I can add bags if necessary. I’m more interested about the long term affect on the hitch receiver/frame with that much weight.

 

[linuxgod]

Geoff, the tongue weight of your 2185 is about 60# heavier than that of my 2285. But the ProPride hitch I am using weighs 200#. So the combination is over 900#. I am still wondering if that is an issue though the PP hitch does have 1000# WD bars. I am wondering if I need to get the combined weight of the tongue weight and added weight of the hitch below the specified max of 850#. How much does your full Blue Ox setup weigh/add? I’m not worried about blowing much the rear settles with the weight. (My stiffer springs have the rear within an inch of unloaded and I can add bags if necessary. I’m more interested about the long term affect on the hitch receiver/frame with that much weight.

I believe the 850# is just the trailer, not the hitch head and shank. That is part of your ~1300# of total carrying capacity. Not sure about the WD bars.

Dan I can't recall if you added a lift but if you did the springs are probably heavier than normal and can carry more load. Stock springs are 170#/in. My Tough Dog "light" springs are 240#/in. The Aussie GVM upgrades provide an extra 1200# of GVWR (official in AUS but unofficially in the US) and they are 340# springs in the rear (and 675# in the front) IIRC. If you've done any spring upgrades I wouldn't be as concerned about tongue weight.

I weighed my tongue with @Sandroad's Sureline scale, so no hitch, which adds another 70# or so. Oddly the hitch was about 765# without my gear in the trailer but about 780# with it. 780# did include the 100AH AGM battery and 40# of propane. Officially photographed weight without my gear or water:

 

[Dan Higgins]

Thanks, Geoff. I did add an ARB/OME lift. 2721s in the rear. They are progressive springs with a range from 270-350 so even at the weakest point they are considerably stronger than stock. (I have 2700s in the front rated at 675.). So that looks good based on what you are doing. I won’t be able to weight without the hitch as the PP is pretty much stuck on my trailer forever. But I know that it is 200# so if I use my Sterline with it on and subtract 200 I should have a pretty good ides of the tongue weight without the hitch. I’m still not sure I’ve got the WD bars dialed in. And if I’m still not satisfied with the height of the rear I’ll add bags.

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks, Geoff. I did add an ARB/OME lift. 2721s in the rear. They are progressive springs with a range from 270-350 so even at the weakest point they are considerably stronger than stock. (I have 2700s in the front rated at 675.). So that looks good based on what you are doing. I won’t be able to weight without the hitch as the PP is pretty much stuck on my trailer forever. But I know that it is 200# so if I use my Sterline with it on and subtract 200 I should have a pretty good ides of the tongue weight without the hitch. I’m still not sure I’ve got the WD bars dialed in. And if I’m still not satisfied with the height of the rear I’ll add bags.

FWIW now that I have the Blue Ox, I almost don't feel I need the air bags. In fact Blue Ox doesn't recommend them, though I know many of the other hitch manufacturers are OK with them so long as you inflate them first.

It wasn't too hard to dial in the weight. At least I think I have it dialed in right. Measure ground-to-fender in the front and rear with a tape measure when unloaded, then put the trailer on without WD bars. If you have air bags, inflate them now. Put the WD bars on and re-measure your ground-to-fender heights. The goal is to get your front height back to the original height (or within 1/4") and the rear to within 1" of original height - if you don't get the front back factory height adjust the bars for more weight transfer and repeat.

All that said while I felt the weight transfer was probably correct, and passing semis had less impact on me than before, I also felt like my rig had more wander (lighter steering) at 65-70mph than I would like. So I may play around with a little more or less weight on the tongue in my next few trips as well as higher tire PSI. I may also go in for an alignment as the steering feels lighter and less precise than I remember it being last year, though I could be imagining it too.

 

[jameyFL]

Just wanted to share our experiences towing recently. Stock 2016 which has the 8 speed transmission. We have a new 6k lbs camper and the LC is our new (to us) tow vehicle. We were in a suburban previously.

Blue Ox hitch, which I highly recommend.

I didn't use power mode and was traveling west in FL from Jax area to Lake City. Call it 1.5 hour trip. Terrain is flat but lots of overpasses every few miles.

I wish there was an instantaneous MPG reading instead of the little bar but we would basically try different things and we found:

72mph got us 5.5mpg (ouch...)

68mph got us 7.5mpg

each of these were done over 20-30 miles.

we were used to getting around 9.5 in the suburban. the blue ox is way better than what we used to tow with.

i think the only thing better about the suburban (which had way less torque) was the LC seems to be a bit spongey on the rear shocks so it bounces a bit vertically where the suburban wouldn't.

i like to tow with cruise control on (don't judge.... ) and we found that dialing it down 4mph on the up side of the overpasses was the best way to keep the engine from racing. then on the way down the overpass bump it back up.

on an unrelated note, we got 18.4 going from FL up to NC with no camper last weekend so I am pretty happy about that.