Towing with a 200-series Toyota Land Cruiser (5 Viewers)

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

You'll do fine. No substitute for common sense but your LC will handle your trailer no problem. BTW, I'll be towing my 2285 out to central Oregon this summer. The last two weeks of August we'll be at Collier SP then LaPine SP. And if after you have your first tow or two, don't hesitate to share your thoughts. If you haven't done towing like this in the past it can feel weird. And because it is new you'll notice every little jiggle. In fact, I would suggest paying attention to how your LC feels and reacts on different road conditions. When I first started towing I would "feel" things that concerned me. Then, later, I would notice the same things when I wasn't towing. You become hyper-sensitive when you are first towing.
 
BTW, you probably noticed that both Geoff and I are towing Lance trailers that are heavier and longer than the 1985.
 
BTW, you probably noticed that both Geoff and I are towing Lance trailers that are heavier and longer than the 1985.
Yep. I also noticed that your trailers were slightly heavier and longer than the one I am considering, but you are running heavier-duty springs and/or air bags...which led to my original question (lighter, shorter trailer w/stock LC). I really like how the stock LC rides so didn’t want to stiffen the springs, and didn’t want to introduce the complexities of air bags. That, plus one of my favorite campgrounds limits hookup sites to 24’ - and the Lance 1985 is 23’ 3”. And yes, they measure and are very strict.
 
I certainly get the usefulness of the shorter and somewhat lighter trailer! Having a 27’ has its set of challenges. The 19x5 trailers are a nice length and feel plenty large with the slide out dinette. Good choice.
 
(snip)
The big FAIL! The big mistake on this demo will be clear if you watch the information display in the console. They are keeping the LC in Drive! Drive with a D! What? You expect an 8-speed transmission with overdrive to apply effective engine braking in D? They didn't even read the owners manual which clearly states that you should use S mode set no higher than S6 when towing. And that you should lower that as required to use engine braking to manage the speed. I have gone down a number of 7% grades and I can do so with almost no towing by setting the transmission to S3 or even S2 if necessary. On this grade I will also probably keep it around 35-40 (the speed limit is 65) simply due to the amount of traffic and the length of the grade. Bottom line is that these guys didn't know how to drive an LC!
(snip)

I've seen this test and have been tracking the series...couldn't agree more! Part of the premise of the ike test is that they want to leave the vehicles to its own devices. Hence they don't manually downshift downhill, nor prod the gas to downshift uphill either. But they generally WILL set tow/haul mode and follow the manual. So they do indeed fail here by not following the manual for S6, nor engaging ECT power. Though that last point is party on toyota/lexus for not naming labeling it tow/haul, though the manual does suggest it under tow.

To cru1z3r

One note on upsized tires is that they do decrease engine braking leverage per gear used. I tow my ~7200lbs Airstream just fine with plenty of engine braking through the major mountains in California, Nevada, and Oregon. Don't be afraid to use lower gears. S3 or even S2 in the steepest of grades, and let the engine rev. More revs = more engine braking. It won't hurt a thing as it's just pumping air.

Make sure the brake proportioning is right. Trailer brakes stop the trailer, vehicle brakes the vehicle. A good practice is to scrub as much speed as possible in a straight line coming over crests, or before downhill turns, avoiding carrying extra speed in these situations where the lash up is under compression (i.e. trailer is pushing on tow vehicle) as that is an unstable posture.

Stock suspension and springs are just fine. Having enough tongue weight, and weight distribution dialed in is key to stability. One of the primary newbie mistakes is avoiding tongue weight by loading behind the trailer axles. Good practice is to load forward or over the axles when at all possible.

She'll do great!
 
Yep. I also noticed that your trailers were slightly heavier and longer than the one I am considering, but you are running heavier-duty springs and/or air bags...which led to my original question (lighter, shorter trailer w/stock LC). I really like how the stock LC rides so didn’t want to stiffen the springs, and didn’t want to introduce the complexities of air bags. That, plus one of my favorite campgrounds limits hookup sites to 24’ - and the Lance 1985 is 23’ 3”. And yes, they measure and are very strict.

I towed the first year on stock suspension. I had a 20' (24' including hitch) trailer that was 5000# with about a 650# tongue weight with battery and propane and all my stuff loaded in it. My WD hitch was really undersized (550# max) and when I maxed it out it was really stiff, which is why I relied partly on the air bags to help make up about an inch of the rear end sag.

With a properly set up WD hitch, you'll be fine. The right sized WD hitch will get your front back to the original height and your rear within ~1" of stock height (assuming no other load in your trunk). Since the LC has about 1" of rake, you should be almost perfectly level, maybe 1/2 to 1" low in the rear when loaded down. Getting the WD right is key. TW of the 1985 is listed at 550#. Listed TW of the 2185 (what I have) is 755# and when I weighed mine with 2 full propane cylinders plus a group 27 100Ah battery it came in about 770#. I'd recommend a WD hitch that's rated for 750-800#, though you could potentially go higher. In any case it's generally better to have too much WD available than too little (though far too much can make your ride bouncy). Everyone has their own opinion of which WD hitch is best, but in generally any of the $450-600 options (BlueOx, Fastway, Equalizer, etc) are probably all similar. Avoid a WD setup that uses a separate friction anti-sway control.

You'll want to limit towing to 6th gear (your 2017 is an 8 speed, unlike my 2013 which is a 6 speed). In the mountains you'll want to use 4th or 5th for sure. On my 6 speed I run in 4th normally, will drop down into 3rd on grades up or down hill, and occasionally 2nd on a steep downhill or a mountain pass where I can't maintain speed in 3rd.

If you haven't bought a TW scale yet PM sandroad - he has one that he may be willing to lend you for a few days. Then again they're about $120 new, IIRC so shipping it around might be expensive enough that you just want your own.

Side note: As to your length requirement, I have 350W of solar panels on my Lance 2185 and half the time we camp now we don't use hookup sites. The non-electric sites are often nicer and quieter (and cheaper) and some parks don't even have electric (especially out west). We can run a few days on the battery, even with running the heat occasionally at night - the only thing we lose is the ability to flip on the AC for a bit when we're somewhere super hot (like Moab). That said I had a similar length requirement as I have to negotiate a tight alley turn to get my trailer parked, which prevented me from looking at 28'+ trailers and ended up channeling me to the Lance 2185 which was 25'8".
 
Ditto on all that Geoff just shared. I have a 2016 LC w/ the 8-speed like you, @cru1s3r. The first thing I do when pulling out of the storage lot is check the lights, shift into S6, set ECT PWR and check the trailer brakes (using the manual control on the Tekonsha). So being in S6 or less and ECT PWR is part of my standard checklist. I "downshift" a lot to help manage the speed of the trailer. Partly because we live in a hilly and mountainous area. Partly because I like to go easy on my brakes. But of course it is also important to have your brake controller set right.

Geoff makes some great points about the WD hitch and setup. Mine is set so that my front comes back to "normal" (before the trailer is attached) and my rear is about an inch low. Since my upgrade springs are progressive they get stiffer as the load gets heavier but that first inch is a bit softer - though stiffer than stock. Remember, I 750# of tongue weight before adding the 200# ProPride WD hitch. The hitch suggestions from Geoff are MUCH lighter than mine so the additional weight won't be an issue.

One other point when measuring the height of the truck at the wheels. I have up to 1.5" variance between the 4 wheels. The left side is often an inch or more lower. This is especially true when I have a full tank of gas. I checked with Slee and this is supposedly normal. So I measure all 4 wheels when checking my WD setups.

You'll also find lots of "input" on WD hitches on the Lance Owners of America forum. Do keep in mind, though, that very few of the people on that forum know anything about the Land Cruiser and its towing capabilities. Many think that the only proper TV is a pickup truck.
 
About to leave on 4000 mile trip towing my Lance 1475 . It’s first long one since getting the cruiser in January. Weight is about 3200 loaded trailer only. Should I use ECT or just keep it in 5 and eliminate overdrive? Obviously down shifting as needed. Thanks
 
A 1475 should be a piece of cake given its much lighter weight, length and tongue weight. I think Toyota recommends using S4 rather than S5 on a 6-speed but others with a 6-speed should weigh in on that. On the 8-speed I believe both 7 and 8 are effectively overdrive. The idea is to keep the RPM up so thing don't get lugged down. As for ECT, I always use it in the mountains even if I'm not towing. Given that your are doing a 4K mile trip you will undoubtedly hit plenty of ups and downs. Maybe your could turn ECT off on the flats. But I would leave it on for any significant climb. And since you're already in S-mode it is easy to downshift to help control speed and give your brakes a break.
 
I always use ECT, even when morning towing. All it does is change your shift points so you hold gears longer, and makes the throttle more responsive. Definitely use it

For those with the 6 speed I think the manual says 5th but I highly recommend towing in 4th gear. You’ll hum along at 3000 rpms on the highway all day long. 4th gear is 1:1 and causes the least heat. In 5th gear you’ll run the transmission hotter but the gas mileage difference is negligible.

If you don’t have a Bluetooth or WiFi OBD2 dongle go buy a $20 ELM327 adapter and a $5 app like EngineLink or Torque and add the AT temp codes so you can watch your transmission temps.
 
Do the temps in the TC fluctuate a lot more than in the tranny itself? I’m using OBD fusion and I have two A/T temps. One gets a lot hotter but fluctuates more. Just trying to figure out how to label the two gauges. Thanks.
 
Do the temps in the TC fluctuate a lot more than in the tranny itself? I’m using OBD fusion and I have two A/T temps. One gets a lot hotter but fluctuates more. Just trying to figure out how to label the two gauges. Thanks.
Yes.

The pan should run about 196F, give or take, when cruising on the hwy in 4th gear (6th in the 8 speed). It will slowly warm up if the TC temp gets hot.

The TC will run at 196F as well cruising on the highway on flat lands, but will move up as you drop down gears. Of course you also generate a lot of heat in stop and go traffic. If you watch the two AT temp numbers, the TC is the one that moves much faster.

In general I don't worry about the TC temp too much, except as a leading indicator for what direction the pan temp will go over the next few minutes. I figure the TC heats up the fluid but then it's going through the AT radiator so if the pan temp is <200F the radiator is doing its job.

Note:
  • I don't know where the sensors are actually located, btw. I assume they are pan and TC temp, but they might just be pre/post TC in the fluid line. I did read someone somewhere using a laser HVAC gauge to check the pan temp and it was within 1-2degrees of the pan reading.
  • I've never seen the pan below 196F, even cruising on flat lands when it's 40F out, so I'm pretty sure there's a thermostat-equivalent in the AT that tries to keep the fluid >195F.
  • The A/T temp light on the dash won't come on until the temp is 304F, and then it goes off around 270F, or so says the GSIC.
 
Last week I pulled our 6000#, 27’ travel trailer up and over the Eisenhower tunnel on I70. The run down from the top is the same thing that was done in the goofy downhill test done by TFLtruck where they did the whole descent in Drive. I wanted to see how I would do using S-mode. In the video they claimed something like a dozen or so “braking events” where they would let the speed get up to 60mph then apply the brakes to bring it down to 50 then let it run again. I don’t feel the need to go 60 or even 50 down a descent like that. (It’s only 7 miles and is over in a few minutes so no rush.). So I put it in S-2/S-3 and let it roll. When RPM approached 4K I would apply the brake to bring the RPM down below 3K. Speed was in the 30-40mph range. I had to use the brake 3 times for a few seconds to bring the speed back down to 30.

By the way, pulling up the east side of that pass I was able to maintain 55mph except when stuck behind a truck and even pass 3-4 trucks. The one section above Georgetown went a bit slower due to the steeper grade and a fair bit of traffic. All said, I was very pleased with how it handled.

I then pulled it up over Rabbit Ears Pass into the Steamboat Springs area of Colorado. (We camped at Stagecoach State Park for 4 nights.).

Then towed it to Craig, CO and then south through Meeker, CO to Rifle, CO. We are camping this week in Silt, CO.

We plan to begin storing the trailer in Grand Junction, CO.

Next trip is to SW Colorado where we’ll be staying at Ridgeway State Park so we can participate in some of the LCDC activities. At least that is the plan.

C920A468-CED4-455B-8A92-E22F940F9FFE.webp
 
I’m on the road now in Utah. Towing 3200 lb trailer. 4 with ECT sometimes uphill feels like I’m really dragging? Have downshifted to 3 and even 2 one time. Definitely felt sluggish at 10,000 feet from Boulder to Grand Junction. It feels like the tranny is not responding and is in some computer mode? Not sure how to explain? Any thoughts?
 
I’m on the road now in Utah. Towing 3200 lb trailer. 4 with ECT sometimes uphill feels like I’m really dragging? Have downshifted to 3 and even 2 one time. Definitely felt sluggish at 10,000 feet from Boulder to Grand Junction. It feels like the tranny is not responding and is in some computer mode? Not sure how to explain? Any thoughts?

Interesting. Were you on I-70 when you experienced this, or other mountain passes? I tow on I-70 through CO frequently with our camper (3000 lbs dry) and 2009 LC, and have not experienced what you describe. I always tow with ECT and usually leave it in 4th on all of the climbs. A little extra nudge of the accelerator gives me all the (relative) zip I need for passing semis or to maintain a reasonable speed. It certainly feels more sluggish on certain steep grades (e.g., eastbound going up Vail Pass), but not in the way you are describing.

Dumb questions, in no particular order: Is your trailer 3200 lbs dry, or loaded? What octane gas were you using? Is your LC built with a lot of additional weight? Any other mods to the vehicle or recent service relating to the transmission? Do you have previous experience towing at 10K feet with other trailers or trucks? Trailer brakes adjusted recently?
 
Yes I-70. 3200lbs loaded. ECT and 4 all the way. High octane fuel. Have not towed at these elevations prior maybe 6-7000 feet. Brakes not recently adjusted. Wheel bearings repacked prior to trip. Oil change/service prior no other issues. Now 25k on odometer purchased in January with 19k. Rear drawers and gear, wife and dog too. All totaling about 500 lbs with me included.
Interesting. Were you on I-70 when you experienced this, or other mountain passes? I tow on I-70 through CO frequently with our camper (3000 lbs dry) and 2009 LC, and have not experienced what you describe. I always tow with ECT and usually leave it in 4th on all of the climbs. A little extra nudge of the accelerator gives me all the (relative) zip I need for passing semis or to maintain a reasonable speed. It certainly feels more sluggish on certain steep grades (e.g., eastbound going up Vail Pass), but not in the way you are describing.

Dumb questions, in no particular order: Is your trailer 3200 lbs dry, or loaded? What octane gas were you using? Is your LC built with a lot of additional weight? Any other mods to the vehicle or recent service relating to the transmission? Do you have previous experience towing at 10K feet with other trailers or trucks? Trailer brakes adjusted recently?
II
 
Yes I-70. 3200lbs loaded. ECT and 4 all the way. High octane fuel. Have not towed at these elevations prior maybe 6-7000 feet. Brakes not recently adjusted. Wheel bearings repacked prior to trip. Oil change/service prior no other issues. Now 25k on odometer purchased in January with 19k. Rear drawers and gear, wife and dog too. All totaling about 500 lbs with me included.

II

Hmm, I got nothing. Seems like you are doing everything right. I usually just fill the tank with 85 octane, although I have no idea if that makes any difference.
 
I’m on the road now in Utah. Towing 3200 lb trailer. 4 with ECT sometimes uphill feels like I’m really dragging? Have downshifted to 3 and even 2 one time. Definitely felt sluggish at 10,000 feet from Boulder to Grand Junction. It feels like the tranny is not responding and is in some computer mode? Not sure how to explain? Any thoughts?

What are your RPM's? Are the revs high, but feels sluggish, or do the revs stay low even when you downshift?

TIA
 
My camper is in the 7000 lb range loaded. Now in AK we don’t have paved roads around the 10k’ range but I do climb steep passes for 2-3k vertical feet. Towing I always run 90-92 octane (unless I’m somewhere it isn’t available) ECT to power and trans to S4, it is common for me to shift to 3rd and sometimes 2nd on steeper uphill grades.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom