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........SOLD.........Have a Brand New TJM T17 front bumper I just posted in the body armor classifieds. $600 local P-up San Diego.
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I'm here in San Diego and I'll swing by today and get it
Let me know if @aroq doesn't end up getting it. Why are you selling?
SOLD to a Mud member in San Diego........ Thanks guys.......
1997 FZJ80 40th
James Jennings
I am considering the T17 for my wife's 2006 LX470, that recently sustained front end damage (with me at the wheel - doh). Question regarding the trimming that must be done around the headlights: If at some point one wanted to put factory bumper back on, would the portions that had been trimmed be visible? Would there be a gap, etc? Or would they be concealed by the factory bumper once reinstalled?
1997 FZJ80 40th
James Jennings
Bumping this to the top and simplifying my poorly worded question: Is the required trimming below/around the headlights visible if you take the T17 off and put the factory bumper back on? In my case it would be for a 2006 LX470.
I don’t know but I’m thinking 99% chance no future owner of any sort would ever want to switch it back. Plus what a pita
Any install updates? It's Friday at work and I need some excitement lol
Couple thoughts on the Dissent/TJM controversy: leaving aside the quality issue for a minute, maybe think of it like buying your groceries at farmer’s markets vs Walmart. No one selling their produce at the farmer’s market is getting rich. I know plenty of them, and for the most part they work like dogs and are just getting by. Their produce costs 50% to 100% more than Walmart’s because that’s what it actually costs to grow vegetables and get them to market.
So how do Walmart and other big vendors sell stuff for so cheap? By externalizing their costs - for example, by making their workers pay for their own health care and paying them so little in wages that they have to get food stamps (that we taxpayers subsidize) to have enough to eat. And that doesn’t even begin to count the environmental costs of big ag, which are borne by the public at large rather than the Walton family (all of whom are billionaires).
Even artisanal producers like Dissent can externalize a lot of their environmental costs - bauxite mining is pretty tough on a landscape and the critters that used to live where there’s now a big hole in the ground. But their overall environmental impact is far less than big corporations. Furthermore, US employers have to meet some minimal standards of worker safety and minimum wages. So when you buy a US-made product you can be reasonably sure that it wasn’t produced by slave labor.
Short answer: you might pay less for a product made in China, but someone is making up the difference - by absorbing environmental costs for us, or accepting much worse conditions for their workers than would be tolerated here. Companies like TJM that outsource their labor to China or Southeast Asia are just helping American consumers make those people and places pick up part of the cost of our stuff. If you feel okay about that, go for it. I’m going to save my pennies a bit longer and order from a small US-based producer like Dissent.
So how do Walmart and other big vendors sell stuff for so cheap? By externalizing their costs - for example, by making their workers pay for their own health care and paying them so little in wages that they have to get food stamps (that we taxpayers subsidize) to have enough to eat. And that doesn’t even begin to count the environmental costs of big ag, which are borne by the public at large rather than the Walton family (all of whom are billionaires).
Even artisanal producers like Dissent can externalize a lot of their environmental costs - bauxite mining is pretty tough on a landscape and the critters that used to live where there’s now a big hole in the ground. But their overall environmental impact is far less than big corporations. Furthermore, US employers have to meet some minimal standards of worker safety and minimum wages. So when you buy a US-made product you can be reasonably sure that it wasn’t produced by slave labor.
Short answer: you might pay less for a product made in China, but someone is making up the difference - by absorbing environmental costs for us, or accepting much worse conditions for their workers than would be tolerated here. Companies like TJM that outsource their labor to China or Southeast Asia are just helping American consumers make those people and places pick up part of the cost of our stuff. If you feel okay about that, go for it. I’m going to save my pennies a bit longer and order from a small US-based producer like Dissent.
This. Pretty much sums up why i went with dissent. Tjm lost me on China. I'd pay double had it been made in the us or Australia.
Dissent/Slee/BIOR vs TJM is apples to oranges....... not really comparable
how funny you'll spend 10s of thousands on a vehicle made in another country but then when it comes to a thousand dollar bumper to put on it you suddenly become patriotic. i understand the difference between japan and china but sorry, neither is local. I buy what I want for my own reasons and don't take advice from hypocrites
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It's official.
Most of the support for the small/local fabricators was less to do with their location and more to do with their support of the 100 Series specifically as well as the 'Mud community.
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dubyahard
SILVER Star
I work in procurement. I am faced with these decisions daily and we aren't talking about thousands of dollars here. I support local business where it makes sense - where speed, local technical support, lower quantities (where shipping would erase any savings of offshoring), IP protection - among other things. I support many businesses in China as well. I agree that companies and people can make up the difference for lower price like environmental costs or unsafe conditions. It happened before, now, and will continue to happen forever as economies grow, develop, and standards change.
Part of my job I take very seriously is auditing. Before I agree that my company will purchase from a supplier anywhere - Canada, US, China - my team and I audit the supplier. It doesn't matter where they are located, they all receive the same rigorous audit. I won't go into all of the details of this audit but child labor, labor conditions, safety, environmental impact, sub-suppliers, security, quality, etc. are all part of this. And we aren't just asking questions, we are putting eyes and hand on. We've done it enough that we can recognize when a supplier isn't being honest or is hiding something. Then we randomly audit them again if they passed the first audit. If they fail, we tell them why and award them no business. I sign my name to this audit and it gets published on our corporate intranet. I am more than reasonably sure that it is not made by slave labor and that they are not dumping chromate into the rivers. It is wrong to say or assume that all "big corporations" are doing this.
At no point in time will wages ever be the same throughout the world. As long as there is a wide enough parity, businesses will look for lower wages - as they should - without sacrificing what they deem is important, i.e. quality, delivery, etc. With transparency today, these "big corporations" should be up front about their suppliers and processes to show what they are doing to avoid these negative impacts. Certainly not all do, but it is moving in the right direction. If you are curious about what a company does, ask them. Send them an email.
The best part about all of this are the choices it provides. Know what you are buying then make your decision. Buy your hyper-local manufactured bumper. Order one made from the opposite coast. Order one from the aussies. Order one from China. The information is out there or you can easily get it.
If this thread continues on this topic though, I would suggest it gets moved to chit-chat.
