SBC Running Hot (1 Viewer)

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Mar 27, 2013
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Sedro Woolley, WA
Alright - so I've actually done a lot of research on this - and it seems all over the map. Yes I am having issues but I would kind of like to see actual general consensus in one thread. While I understand many of these things combined will really push towards a proper cooling system, some things may seem over the top when all combined together.

I also have another friend with an SBC in his that is having overheating issues, so I know it's a common problem. I'm trying to summate everything I've read instead of reading in various threads where resolution is random.

Things I have read to resolve overheating:

1) Place the engine further forward. Too far back and less airflow through the engine bay can cause increased engine bay temps that reduce overall cooling abilities.

2) Use a large mechanical fan. Others suggest the 90's larger Volvo electric fans, or a Taurus electric fan. Some claim electric is fine so long as it's 3500cfm or greater, others laugh at the thought of electric. I've even read on this forum how Flexalite fans are useless - yet elsewhere online I've read that at idle they are the most effective at moving air (problems with them were actually stated to be power robbing, noisy, and issues when in the water, of which none of those mentioned here)

3) Use an aluminum radiator (many suggest crossflow). There are tons of these available and the variety/conversations seem to vary.

4) Use a 195 t-stat. The theory behind this is based on a 160 or 180 constantly being open, allowing coolant to constantly flow through the radiator, without allowing the coolant to actually cool in the radiator. Part of me understands this theory (if it's on a proper cycle) but may not be useful if the coolant coming out of the radiator is greater than 195 - as in, the tstat would never close causing the same issue. Personally I'm more used to 4 cylinders in cars with very efficient cooling systems - and pulling a t-stat (or lower tstat) would in fact cause the engine to run significantly colder, so it seems a bit backwards to my experiences.

5) (This is from random hot rod forums) use a lower 7 PSI radiator cap (from this forum) use a 15psi cap. Literally have seen almost nothing talked about this on this forum. Some state that the higher PSI's increase temps - but really, isn't it the temp that is causing/regulating the pressure? A low PSI cap would most likely open/close more often and maybe pull from a cooler source (overflow) but otherwise I don't see a benefit.

6) Use a properly set up radiator fan shroud. Blades 1/2 in and 1/2 out, ensure the shroud is covering the entire radiator, and is built as a box shroud.

7) Possible issues with flow to the radiator - trans/oil/ps coolers, condensors, winches (etc) in the way for air to get pushed/pulled through.

8) Ensure your engine is running properly - not overly lean/rich, and that timing is right.

Thoughts on these, items missing to consider?
 
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Some additional information I have scraped up:

For those running with a serpentine belt system - it isn't uncommon for those pumps to run in reverse rotation from the factory in comparison to earlier years, so you may want to ensure you have the correct pump for your application if you've done a conversion.

Running restrictors at highway speeds will have more of a negative effect on cooling than even no t-stat at all (based on readings of some real world tests done with 1", 5/8" restrictors and no t-stat).

There's little to no mention about sensor location - earlier SBC's have them in the head directly next to the exhaust manifold/header on the #1 side, later years have them in the intake manifold near the t-stat inlet. These readings could be quite different.


In my situation I have (not trying to have diagnosed, just offering my info/findings as I go):
earlier (late 70's) SBC with rebuilt quadrajet, MSD ignition, unknown (guessing 180) t-stat to be replaced, PS and trans cooler out front, Champion 2 core aluminum rad, and the smallest (all I have room for) Flexalite fan possible within 1" of the radiator, no shroud, engine placed far forward, fenders cut for over-frame headers. Radiator had to be moved as low and to the passenger side as possible (due to clearance issues between fan and trans cooler built into the Champion rad). Sensor is in the head, for a new Stewart Warner gauge. Carb is yet to be adjusted (picking up a vacuum gauge to do that today) and timing is set based on idle alone - since there's no pointer (useful). V-Belt system. 16psi cap on the radiator, no boiling over, no leaks. In fact the cap never opened to release/pull water from the overflow tank.

I used an IR sensor - I was reading 225 at the sensor in the head and 203 at the inlet. I had a very low reading at the lower part of the radiator, so I'm not going to post it as I don't completely trust that reading.
 
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You've hit on the most important issues. I've applied most of them to my 40.
  • Engine placement in typical AA/Downey recommended location.
  • OEM GM mechanical fan
  • 19x26 Aluminum cross flow radiator
  • 195 t-stat.
  • 14-16 psi rad cap
  • Custom aluminum shroud
  • Trans cooler in front of radiator
  • Good running 5.7 TBI
Zero overheating issues.
 
I have a first generation 5.7l vortec (1996) with a 22" wide cross-flow aluminum radiator and later-model stock 11-blade fan and clutch. The engine is pretty much in the standard LC position, about 2" forward of the firewall on the passenger side. The engine bay is pretty full and I have an 8274 winch in front. I use a standard 14 psi cap and have a steering cooler in front of the rad on the DS. I built a fiberglass radiator shroud to maximize cooling. The engine runs right where it should, between the thermo setting (stock) of 195 degrees and max temp of 204 at higher RPMs.

Every combination is different, but if I were doing another truck I'd do it just the same. I think the fan/clutch and shroud are possibly the most important parts of the puzzle.
 
195 tstat fixed my over heat issues.
 
what is the operating temp and what temp gauge are you using i have installed more v8s than i can count including 501 caddy ,455 ram air4 poncho olds buick and never had a problem with over heating .always used the stock fans and with bigger engines bigger rads to match
 
Any pictures or details of what you are running so we know what you're working with?
 
It's actually good to hear what others are running - as I said, I'm not trying to make this all about me since when I research there are so many people with these problems, and the resolutions seem to be all over the place.

If wanted/needing high res photos I'll put the S5 down and get out a real camera....

As for my rig, as I said above:
earlier (late 70's) SBC with rebuilt quadrajet, MSD ignition, unknown (guessing 180) t-stat to be replaced, PS and trans cooler out front, Champion 2 core aluminum rad, and the smallest (all I have room for) Flexalite fan possible within 1" of the radiator, no shroud, engine placed far forward, fenders cut for over-frame headers. Radiator had to be moved as low and to the passenger side as possible (due to clearance issues between fan and trans cooler built into the Champion rad). Sensor is in the head, for a new Stewart Warner gauge. Carb is yet to be adjusted (picking up a vacuum gauge to do that today) and timing is set based on idle alone - since there's no pointer (useful). V-Belt system. 16psi cap on the radiator, no boiling over, no leaks. In fact the cap never opened to release/pull water from the overflow tank.

I used an IR sensor - I was reading 225 at the sensor in the head and 203 at the inlet. I had a very low reading at the lower part of the radiator, so I'm not going to post it as I don't completely trust that reading.

I did not place this engine.... and had I done the research on this issue a couple years ago things would be different, but.... the plan is to do what I need with it in it's current place.

Update:
Yesterday I bought a 195 t-stat.... pulled the 'newer' (almost zero miles) tstat out, it was already a 195... swapped it out anyways just in case. Picked up the vacuum gauge and plan to tune the idle AFR's today.

Measured the fan - it's a 15"... I *might* be able to fit a 16" with the new radiator placement, but it's close to the lower cooling tank. I may consider seeing about finding some 1" strip foam to place against the radiator brackets so that air can't go around through the grill, but other than that the radiator is still well placed in front of the grill and the fan is less than 1" from the radiator.

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I've literally only driven it around the block (up/downhill) about 1/2 mile, but it gets up to temp quite fast (been in the 80's here lately) and it's been around 220 +/- a few degrees per the gauge at idle. Never boiled over, but just trying to ensure bases are covered.
 
I agree with practically all of above, with one additional tidbit: The Society of Automotive Engineers did a test on fan shrouds, they discovered engines run coolest when zero percent of the fan blade is inside the shroud, but I don't know if your 50/50 works as well?? The test did show that fans completely inside the shroud merely blew air back out the grille, no prop wash to blow hot air out of the engine compartment. Additionally, the Downey specified engine position is critical for cooling (i.e. engine well in front of the firewall so that engine heat does not hit the firewall and bounce right back into the engine).
 
Now that I've seen your photos I think you have real problems.
(1) Normally you'd mount the Rad lower so that fan does not cut through path of the lower radiator hose.
(2) Normally you'd be better off with a big 17" or 18" air conditioning fan blade, 7 or 8 blades, heavy pitch on the blades (fan thickness).
(3) Yep, your engine is way too far forward, won't allow use of bitchin fan choice, this will plague you until corrected.

If your's is the long water pump you could go to the short water pump for more fan clearance, but then you'd also have to change alternator mounting brackets, and probably pulley pac as well.
 
My '64 FJ45 LV has a 327 and a TH350 or TH400 (forget at the moment). I had a 1953 Chevy radiator that had a honeycomb looking panel, trans cooler in front, 12 p.s.i. cap, no fan shroud, 180 deg. thermostat and 4 bladed steel fan. No problems in the city with overheating or running excessively hot except that the radiator cap would eventually cause the radiator to bust, supposedly. I eventually changed my radiator cap to 7 p.s.i. When I would go camping fully loaded and 4/5 people + dog that is when I would encounter problems, but the radiator cap was not the cause of my problems.

Driving from El Paso to Alamogordo no problems but from Alamogordo up to Cloudcroft the temp would go up almost to the H (didn't have my mech. temp gauge yet). One year I put an old GM 6 bladed steel fan and that made a big difference but was not completely satisfied. The following year I then re-cored my radiator with a 4 core modern brass panel, used my existing tanks and made a fan shroud. Width of fan shroud is about 1.5 " but it does work great. No more problems and I am still using the 7 p.si. cap and 180 deg. thermostat. Based on my mechanical temp gauge, I don't think it even reached 210 deg. going up the long winding road to Cloudcroft and this was at the end of July last year. Can't remember what my stock gauge read, and would like to say it was in the middle, but it was definitely not near the H.
 
run an oil cooler - I've run several race cars that lost primary cooling (its 'water') but survived just fine with an oil cooler.
PSI of cap ONLY affects the boiling point - it's a one to one ratio. Water boils at 212*, putting a 15 psi cap raises that boiling point to 227*

I haven't tried, yet (mostly because oil coolers work so well), the other coolants like water wetter and Evan's coolant. Both may actually help because water doesn't transfer heat as well as other mediums (such as oil).

That said, when are you overheating? is it at highway speeds or when you're putzing around in the back country?
 
Your truck looks like it had the engine installed by whoever put the 283 in my truck. It is way too far forward, as outlined in this thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/at...-worms-v8-location-clutch-replacement.818767/

I'm in about the same boat. The truck runs cool enough (about 200-210, usually, 225 in traffic) but not as cool as I'd like it. I'm running a stock FJ40 radiator (brass, 3-core, I believe) and a 180 degree thermostat. I'm running a rigid, belt-driven 16" fan that's about 1/2 in from the radiator with no shroud.

My plan is to yank the engine next spring and re-do everything. I'll be dropping the radiator lower, as @Downey mentioned, to center a larger (17") clutch fan with a heavy duty clutch and proper clearance from the lower radiator hose. A heavy duty clutch will cause the fan to spin at about 80-90% of the water pump shaft speed when active, and shut the fan down (free-wheel) when not needed. The engine will be getting moved back in the engine bay to the generally recommended mounting location. Seems like the general rule of thumb is to leave an inch or two of clearance at the closes point (passenger side valve cover) to allow for proper airflow around the engine. This should allow for both use of the clutch fan (with a short water pump) and a fan shroud. I'm still debating whether to use the 50/50 rule, or go completely out of the shroud per Downey's comment.

I am either going to re-core and repaint the existing radiator, if I can find a decent shop in the area, or replace it. I haven't figured out yet if I will replace it with a Champion or another OEM one. My understanding is that if everything else is set up properly, either will work.
 
I put a 8 bladed caddy fan on mine and the overheating went away.

I was looking into those - is there a source or part number for these or do you just have to get lucky in a junkyard?
 
to be fair - regarding a bigger fan, there was/is clearance to the lower hose.... When I had a stock radiator it did clear everything (with that fan) in the radiators stock location/mounts - it was the Champion fan wit the added 1/2" or so that juts out for the added cooler that is causing a clearance issue.

What I *might* be able to do.... is find a 17" fan and lose the 1/2 spacer.... but that may be too close to call....

Another slight update:
As I said above - the flexalite solid fans I've read move the most air at idle and as rpm's increase the blades flatten out (to reduce power robbing) - so something to me still seemed "off". I was fiddling with tuning the carb and couldn't get a good lower vacuum reading.... idle was too high at around 1200-1300.... the gauge was reading around 220 and I could physically feel air being pulled from the front (in fact, took a set of instructions in a plastic bag and was able to put it on the "Toyota" logo and it stayed). After playing a bit with the idle, then the AFR settings, then idle again.... Closed the hood - I wanted to ensure that going from P to R/N/D that I didn't see a large drop in idle to where it died - I didn't, but also noticed that the temps (very very slowly and I only had a couple min) started to drop a tad.

I think the fan/radiator are providing enough air movement to cool - the air just need a little more direction. I'm going to work on trying to close off a few gaps at the front and maybe even "direct" the air to the radiator (sort of a reverse shroud)


Out of curiosity - the "perfect" placement is where the valve cover is how far from the firewall? I mentioned a friend has a 68 with a TBI 350 and he is also having overheating issues (of a much more serious situation, his will climb well over 230... it will actually max out his Autometer gauge.... )


Engine location - Mine was setup with a 327 this way - stock rad, with the flexalite fan, far forward... the 327 had double camel hump heads, an offenhauser intake, holley carb, over fender headers, and the M/T valve covers (along with now rusted chrome pieces all over... VC wing bolts, pulleys, oil pan, tstat inlet)... literally looked like it was pulled from a hotrod in the 70's and dumped into the FJ40... last registration was 1983 and the engine was locked up (rusted rings) to tell me that it probably wasn't run since.. My concern with engine location runs deeper than just cooling... I have a TH350 with a hurst shifter that is now specifically located.... I currently have the original 1970 dash transfer case controls and there would be concern with the vacuum valve locations and modifying the linkage to fit (moving it back). Then there's concern regarding drivelines needing to be modified as well (and associated cost to lengthen/shorten, balance). If it was as simple as "lets just rebuild the mounts and move it back" I would be all for it - it would be a 1/2 day job with almost no cost.
 
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I have the Downey manual at home - I can dig up his recommended placements when I get home tonight. he references from points on the frame, but I think you wind up with an inch or two between the firewall and the passenger side valve cover. There's a lot of discussion about location over on the thread I linked above, as well.
 
Well I'll throw my 2 cents in....This is what I am running currently and everything is running good.

Fan: Flex-a-lite 7-Blade Fans 1817
Water Pump: FlowKooler Hi Flow Mechanical Water Pumps 1668
Fan Shroud: Speedway Motors Aluminum Fan Shroud Kit
Radiator: Ebay Aluminum Radiator 3 core
160 degree thermostat.

Around town in the hot summer months I average around 195 degrees.

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