rear brakes over adjusting..... (1 Viewer)
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g-man
SILVER Star
Go to Partsouq.com, put in your vin #, drill down and look at all kinds of schematics of your vehicle. Click on the part # in the schematic and a window pops up to show you if the oem part is available or other substitutes, prices etc.
here for mine an 87 fj60:
here for mine an 87 fj60:
g-man
SILVER Star
Partsouq has some good prices,
I recently bought the pins that hold the shoes to the backing plate part # 47457...because the hardware kit that Cruiser outfitters sent had pins that were too short.
I also bought 47626P...parking brake segmental and parking brake wire 47619. Mine were chewed up. I also bought new pins for the bell cranks, a parking brake cable and some of the bushing for the parking brake cable.
I recently bought the pins that hold the shoes to the backing plate part # 47457...because the hardware kit that Cruiser outfitters sent had pins that were too short.
I also bought 47626P...parking brake segmental and parking brake wire 47619. Mine were chewed up. I also bought new pins for the bell cranks, a parking brake cable and some of the bushing for the parking brake cable.
I was browsing Rockauto today and I came across the "Drum Brake Self Adjuster Repair Kit". It has new levers as well as the adjusters. I figured it was worth a shot for $30.00 for both sides. I will still probably order the OEM parts from Toyota as well to keep in stock, but I am curious if the Rock kit(s) will work with the addition of the aforementioned washer.
Amazon product ASIN B001KO4NLC
Amazon product ASIN B001KO4NLC
Thank you!!!
g-man
SILVER Star
Can a moderator move this thread to the FAQs?
Many thanks to @liveoak, @ntdb, @EscapeWagon62, @g-man, @Spike Strip and others for this thread - incredibly helpful.
After trying to be 'proactive' and update my rear brakes to try to eek out as optimal braking on stock equipment as I could, I replaced my rear brakes with shoes and other hardware from cruiser outfitters, similar to @ntdb. Never had issues with my parking brake and it over adjusting until after this. You could see the steam from the right rear wheel in the rain it was so hot. I could not figure it out until I saw what you guys had posted. Utilized the washer/shim as @liveoak suggested (the 1/4 washers were a bit too big for my rig but same idea) and this seemed to fix the problem. Thank you again!
After trying to be 'proactive' and update my rear brakes to try to eek out as optimal braking on stock equipment as I could, I replaced my rear brakes with shoes and other hardware from cruiser outfitters, similar to @ntdb. Never had issues with my parking brake and it over adjusting until after this. You could see the steam from the right rear wheel in the rain it was so hot. I could not figure it out until I saw what you guys had posted. Utilized the washer/shim as @liveoak suggested (the 1/4 washers were a bit too big for my rig but same idea) and this seemed to fix the problem. Thank you again!
I can’t explain it, but the only thing that fixed my issue was new drums.
The shop that I use was attempting to solve this issue and they/me were having no luck.
One day the retired mechanic who still comes in on occasion to help out saw my 60 there and asked what the issue was. His immediate response was “it needs new drums”.
At that point I had nothing to lose (except the money I spent to have the drums turned) so I tried new drums. It worked perfectly!
Again, I can’t explain why it solved the issues but it did. Also it’s worth noting that my old drums were within spec.
The shop that I use was attempting to solve this issue and they/me were having no luck.
One day the retired mechanic who still comes in on occasion to help out saw my 60 there and asked what the issue was. His immediate response was “it needs new drums”.
At that point I had nothing to lose (except the money I spent to have the drums turned) so I tried new drums. It worked perfectly!
Again, I can’t explain why it solved the issues but it did. Also it’s worth noting that my old drums were within spec.
@WartHog73 @Zack1978 I had this same issue, read this whole thread, and started a new one a few months ago. The washers helped considerably, but my rear brake shoes still over adjust. I have to back them off about every 2-3 weeks now instead of daily. I’ve had several knowledgeable people look over my work, both in person and via photos/videos. It’s all installed correctly.
Did either of you adjust the parking brake per the FSM after you started having trouble? Does anybody know ( @g-man @Spike Strip ) if the parking brake stuff gets adjust first, then the drums, or vise versa? FSM seems inconclusive on this.
Did either of you adjust the parking brake per the FSM after you started having trouble? Does anybody know ( @g-man @Spike Strip ) if the parking brake stuff gets adjust first, then the drums, or vise versa? FSM seems inconclusive on this.
I'm pretty sure you adjust the brake through the backing plate, then fine adj by pulling up the E-brake handle until you get 7 clicks.
@CruiserTrash - So, I did the rear brakes, then developed the issue (never happened prior to this). I then actually got a new OEM parking brake line (and sleeve/cup and hardware) and issue persisted. Then did the shim repair. It’s only been a couple weeks with maybe 150-200 miles, so will see if it holds (previously problem persisted almost immediately). I believe drums first then parking brake was the order, but not sure if that is the ‘correct’ way…!
I actually got new drums too but didn’t put them on because they looked great. However, if further issues maybe I will do what @Zack1978 did and just replace and see what happens. Man, I’m really hoping to not look at my rear brakes for a while
I actually got new drums too but didn’t put them on because they looked great. However, if further issues maybe I will do what @Zack1978 did and just replace and see what happens. Man, I’m really hoping to not look at my rear brakes for a while
I had quite a few problems when doing the rear brakes. Somethings that might be worth checking. 1. I got new drums, but they were actually smaller then the originals. The result was the adjuster, when adjusted was only 1-2 threads near its shortest travel. This caused locking up. Put old drums back and now the adjuster is like 12-15 threads in (near middle). 2. On the park brake cranks, one was tighter then the other (when I had the drum size issue). On the rear you see an adjuster bolt that controls max run of the crank, but both sides should be the same distance roughly. 3. The 'spring' that holds the handbrake adjuster leaver was on the wrong hole. New brake pads have about 4 extra holes compared to the old one, and I think the PO, put it on the wrong one. I think it should be on the furthest hole (hence the spring should be very tight). This will definitely control how often it clicks.
g-man
SILVER Star
the parking brake will adjust the slack adjuster (part number 47460 and 47470) in the blow up schematic in post #82 in this thread. Once your brakes are reinstalled you adjust the adjusters by simply cranking the hand brake several times. This will actuate the lever and it will turn the adjusters. No need to go in through the backing plate with a screwdriver to tighten the adjusters. Only to loosen them if you need to pull the drum off.
Try shimming the lever out more and if that doesn't work, I'd try and get a better set of shoes. The pin on some aftermarket shoes has too much space on it behind the groove where the E clip sits.
To clarify I know that the parking brake actuates the adjustment lever, which turns the star wheel, and that increases shoe tightness (0.6mm gap to the inside of the drum if I’m recalling the FSM correctly). I am only going in through the backing plate to back the star wheel off after the shoes get over-adjusted, not to tighten them.
The crux of this issue is that at some point, when the shoes reach an optimal tightness via actuating the parking brake, it should stop adjusting. The adjustment lever should stop grabbing pawls in the star wheel. But it’s not. This thread and the other big one that you were posting on both come down to that. But the adjustment level keeps grabbing pawls for some people after a rebuild, going past that optimal point.
I did shim the adjustment lever out with a washer. I used the fatter “c-clip” that you have to mash down with pliers on the top of the post to limit lateral play in the adjustment lever as well. And mine still get tight and drag after 2-3 weeks. I have also adjusted the parking brake per the FSM through all of this. All of this so far is just a summary of what’s been discussed before because I think my previous post wasn’t clear.
So where do we go from here?
I’m not sure if this may be an issue, but just in case - my friend was adamant to replace the parking brake adjustment cables only with OEM. He had lots of issues with aftermarket ones and length/size being slightly off. They are still available via Toyota for 60 series (I actually bought some extra in case they disappear and become NLA). I assume you have a new OEM parking cable too? (Sorry if I missed that in earlier post).
g-man
SILVER Star
@CruiserTrash, You're on the right path to correcting this. Do you have aftermarket brake shoes? Is there any play in the pin on the shoe? look at pg 3 post 44 and LOOK at the second image. Does your washer sit on the shoulder of the pin. Notice the space that is now between the washer and the groove where the E clip sits. Is that what you have? The horseshoe shaped washer 47601C goes on the thick part of the pin after the long lever 47601 not at the tip where the e clip goes.
Shoes were from Cruiser Outfitters, aftermarket, but I trust what they sell. No play in the pin. Washer diets on the shoulder of the pin, where it comes down to a smaller diameter for the adjusting lever. Larger horseshoe clip is on the parking brake lever, and I originally had the thin “e-clip” on the very end of the post. In addition to the washer behind the adjusting lever I removed the thin c-clip and added the larger horseshoe clip to further limit axial play - which I believed was the culprit that allowed the adjusting lever to grab an extra star wheel pawl when it shouldn’t be.
I did my rear brakes last June (I think) and then went to Solid Axle Summit. I was having issues before getting to Ouray, so I stopped in Classic Cruisers and two of their techs verified my work. Then once I got to SAS I was still having issues so I spent Monday taking it all apart instead of running trails. I had probably half a dozen super knowledgable Cruiser dudes, real long-time, die-hard, heavy hitters, inspect and verify my work.
I really don’t know where to go from here. The problem is manageable now, but still annoying. Do I throw money at it and buy a new parking brake cable? What I’d like to do is understand WHY it happens. There’s a zillion threads on it, and especially a couple long ones, and nobody has figured it out.
g-man
SILVER Star
If you added an additional horseshoe washer between the lever and the C clip...then you should remove it and put a washer of the same thickness behind the lever so the C clip holds the lever tight. This will move the entire lever AWAY from the star adjuster so it will grab less teeth. This is what you want.
From the bottom of the post to the end:
--brake shoe--
parking brake lever
big horseshoe c-clip
---shoulder---
hardware store washer
adjusting lever
smaller horseshoe clip (fits in e-clip groove)
--end of post--
I'm a bit hesitant to agree that moving the adjusting lever away from the star washer, laterally, will help it grab more teeth. I think you want it to not be able to rotate upwards as easily, and if it's closer to the star washer, then it's more easily stopped by a pawl because it's more tightly engaged with it. If it's slightly farther away, it would skip over the pawls because it only has to skim over the tops of the "peaks". Of note: I originally had no washer the e-clip in place (stock). Then I added the washer under the e-clip (on TOP of the adjustment lever). No change in the problem. I drove for a week then moved the washer behind the adjustment lever and things improved a little. Then I replaced the e-clip with the smaller horseshoe clip and things improved again.
I always like your posts @g-man and I can tell you're a smart dude, you're always solving problems and cooking up solutions ... I think we might be thinking about this one differently though.
