rear brakes over adjusting..... (2 Viewers)

[g-man]

laterally, will help it grab more teeth.

No , I think it will grab LESS teeth because it is further from the adjuster. But maybe the trick is for it to put less tension on the adjuster teeth/dial and being further may help with that. I'm really not sure how this is engineered. I mean I don't know how the set up determines EDIT: when the lever will stop adjusting the adjuster out. I mean if the brake shoes are tight to the drum wont' the lever still move some? does lack of pressure keep the lever from turning the adjuster or does the lever travel less some how and not grab any teeth? But it stands to reason that if you shimmed it out and it helped some, that you would try and shim it out more to see if that fixes the issue.

 

[Spike Strip]

You can kind of see here what's going on in this Hilux video (same brakes): when everything is adjusted properly, and the there's the proper clearance between Drum and Shoe (FSM says 0.6mm), when brakes or E-brake are applied, the lever can't move up enough to 'spin' the adjuster star. If the adjuster is continuing to space the shoes further apart, then the issue has to be what is allowing that adjuster lever to 'move' ?

 

[g-man]

So what makes the lever move less after the shoes are tight against the drum? Is the bigger parking brake lever contacting the shoe at the top and stopping it from moving?

 

[CruiserTrash]

So what makes the lever move less after the shoes are tight against the drum? Is the bigger parking brake lever contacting the shoe at the top and stopping it from moving?

That's the exact piece I've been trying to puzzle out. I cannot figure it out. Best guess so far is the pawls on the star wheel keep the adjusting lever from going any further - the brake shoes get a certain amount of tight, which makes the star wheel difficult to spin, which keeps the adjusting lever in check. That's why I've been focusing my brain power on the interface between the lever and the star wheel. At this point I'm thinking I'm incorrect.

Is there a "stop" somewhere that gets closer to its stopping point as the shoes adjust outwards? I've gone over and over it and can't find anything like that. I really feel like there's got to be a metal-to-metal point of contact that comes into play when the brakes are adjusted properly. To comment on what you said directly, it seems like as the shoes move outward, there is MORE room for the parking brake lever to move - even if that is measured in mm or fractions of mm. That's why I keep coming back to the adjustment lever/star wheel interface. It sure seems like the only thing stopping that lever from spinning the star wheel would be the flat side of a pawl. Maybe? I waffle on this stuff so much in my head, and I have been for the better part of a year haha.

 

[g-man]

When the adjuster tension overcomes the return spring tension, then I think the adjuster lever will just hang out on the teeth and not turn the adjuster. If the lever is too far inboard (or toward the center of the vehicle) then this may add leverage. I wonder if the aftermarket shoes/pin is of a slightly different dimension causing most of us to have to shim it out with the washer. One way you might fix the issue is to replace the return spring with another with slightly less tension.

 

[iansplatinum]

I wonder if the aftermarket shoes/pin is of a slightly different dimension causing most of us to have to shim it out with the washer.

This is my belief. My centric shoes on my old 60 had an overadjustment problem on the side where I kept the aftermarket pin. On the other side I swapped to the OE pin from my old shoes, no adjustment issues.

From researching this there's at least 3 different style/geometry pins out there.
Short shoulder, tall shoulder, chamfered shoulder.

I'll just be ordering 04495-60070 in an attempt to skip the headache this time. will update this thread with whatever pin style is there.
Also bought all the OE drum hardware this time around instead of the $10 rock auto kit.

 

[iansplatinum]

Found a pic of some OE ones (04495-60070). Looks like square cut shoulder.

 

[iansplatinum]

OE shoes 04495-60070 in hand.
Closeup of pin shown

 

[CruiserTrash]

So Ian, I think we need a report of whether or not this solves the issue. Then we all know not to buy aftermarket shoes. Or at least save the pins from our original shoes and swap those in.

 

[iansplatinum]

So Ian, I think we need a report of whether or not this solves the issue. Then we all know not to buy aftermarket shoes. Or at least save the pins from our original shoes and swap those in.

strangely I recall my '87 having a little bit different pin geometry. I'll take a closeup of my '84s old pins when I do the drums in a week or two.
Those shoes should be original. Can't guarantee this is the problem/solution but we know it's a sensitive area hence the washer trick. So it was interesting to see at least 3 different pin variations on the market.

 

[hj 60]

Very nice to see the difference and dimensions, mine is fine now, so it seems that after some time it settled and I believe the mentioned worn out drum as one reason.
Did not measure mine yet but it passed the road check this week without hot stinking brakes (two years ago is was new and dragging, brand-new brake shoe first trip was to the road check)
Also drove to Croatia with boat trailer so it is used for sure, also using handbrake like normal.
Thanks for the pictures and info.

 

[CruiserTrash]

@hjtom

 

[iansplatinum]

So Ian, I think we need a report of whether or not this solves the issue. Then we all know not to buy aftermarket shoes. Or at least save the pins from our original shoes and swap those in.

I have done 2 different 60 rear brake rebuilds now with all OE hardware (springs, pins, horseshoes, etc), OE shoes, aftermarket drums, new OE e-brake cable, new OE bellcrank bodies & springs, new aisin cylinders. Both on my personal 60s. So far, no issues with over adjustment. On one 60 I used new adjuster arms, on the other I didn't. On both I cleaned out the threads of the star-wheel adjuster and added some thin oil. What I noticed is that with thicker brake grease added too much friction to the threads and the adjuster didn't seem to work right. So I cleaned off the grease and went with some light weight oil.

Not sure if that's helpful to anyone. I did not add any washers or do anything outside of OE factory methods/materials other than aftermarket drums.