So I’ve been researching e-lockers and it seems that the big compromise that they have is that they disengage when you go in reverse or more likely slip backwards. I was wondering if the stock e-lockers had the same issue and if there are any aftermarket e lockers that have fixed this issue.
Quick question about stock vs aftermarket E-lockers
- Thread starter blobmasterer
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What do you want to do with it, the E locker ( sollectible ) would be the best.
The Detroit is not good for snow or ice covered roads.
The true track is not a true locker.
But have you run them or any other lockers ?
I only ask because of some of the questions you have asked in other post make it sound like you have limited or no off road experience.
Those look new in the box
Give them 10 to 15 years, you will be pulling the 3rds to replace seals, it's a well documented problem with the ARB's.
100% correct
The Detroit in my 91 would make the rear end slide off the road in any kind of slippery off camber situation. Ie snow, ice and mud.
Other than that I had no complaints.
Honestly in our wheeling group I am the only one running OEM lockers a few guy have spools the rest run ARB and just about every trip out someone is having issues with there ARBs
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I've heard that a lot. But I worked at a offroad shop for over 10 years. We would install lockers including ARBs, I have had the front ARB in my fj40 for a long time. I can't recall ever seeing the issue personally. Maybe something is done wrong on installation? I've had a lot of mechanical issues on my fj40. But the ARB just does its thing.
My experience is (thus far) wildly uneven; things I've done, I've done. Other things I've researched to death, been in rigs that already have them (or competing products), etc. Still other things I'm fairly clueless about; should be doing my first new suspension shortly, so asking questions on that b/c a lotta folks here have done that multiple times. When there's something I feel I know enough about, I'll answer others' questions.
That said, I like the HE's performance, and have never seen anyone have problems running them, or really even complain about them. Stock lockers work, but IMO (and I'm not alone on this) HE's are better and faster. From what I've seen and heard, ARBs have oil leakage/spray issues--though someone here said if you run them below the suggested pressure, that goes away. Could be; I don't know. I've also seen multiple references to cold-weather problems. ARBs require a working compressor and multiple air lines; not a big deal for most, but adding complexity is not a point in their favor. Detroit Lockers / TrueTracs I left when I left Fords, back in the 90s; they were an improvement over stock.
Can well-maintained ARBs perform as well as Harrop Eatons under some conditions? Maybe. All conditions? Depends on who you ask. Can they perform better? Nope--and neither can stock lockers. Not sure anyone would disagree with that, and in fact this was discussed somewhere recently.
As to the photo, they are new in the box. ("Do you run them or even ever had them." was the original question.) After researching and riding in rigs that use them, I put my money where my mouth is.
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The guy who owns sand hollow offroad and owned moab 4x4 for years told me he saw the issue all the time. According to him the arb seal housing would even become corroded on a lot of the lockers and new seals wouldn't fix the issue.
Fair enoughMy experience is (thus far) wildly uneven; things I've done, I've done. Other things I've researched to death, been in rigs that already have them (or competing products), etc. Still other things I'm fairly clueless about; should be doing my first new suspension shortly, so asking questions on that b/c a lotta folks here have done that multiple times. When there's something I feel I know enough about, I'll answer others' questions.
That said, I like the HE's performance, and have never seen anyone have problems running them, or really even complain about them. Stock lockers work, but IMO (and I'm not alone on this) HE's are better. From what I've seen and heard, ARBs have oil leakage/spray issues--though someone here said if you run them below the suggested pressure, that goes away. Could be; I don't know. They also require a working compressor; not a big deal for most, but adding complexity is not a point in their favor. Detroit Lockers / TrueTracs I left when I left Fords, back in the 90s; they were an improvement over stock.
Can well-maintained ARBs perform as well as Harrop Eatons under some conditions? Maybe. All conditions? Depends on who you ask. Can they perform better? Nope--and neither can stock lockers. Not sure anyone would disagree with that, and in fact this was discussed somewhere recently.
Rop
As to the photo, they are new in the box. ("Do you run them or even ever had them." was the original question.) After researching and riding in rigs that use them, I put my money where my mouth is.
Honest question can they be manually locked or unlocked ? I know the ARB can't and default to open when they lose air.
OEM can
Oh, l think OEM e locker is every bit as good as the Harrpo or the ARB, locked is locked and in 7 years of hard wheeling my 80 they have never failed me and they have 275k miles on them.
And I paid less for the 80 then those two boxs.
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Oh OK that makes sense. If the the housing is getting corroded that would do it. Maybe people aren't extending they're breathers and let water sit in the housing.
Idk what is causing the corrosion. On my rig the breathers were extended and the seal housings were not corroded. But my seals were toast, that being said the lockers had been in my rig for 13 years. That's plenty of time for an o-ring to give up the ghost.
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Oh OK. Well as far as water, I still sometimes get water in gear oil even with my extended breathers. I think it's possible water gets past axle seals. They are really only supposed to keep fluid from spilling out. Just a theory.
Default is open; switches provide power to activate the electromagnets. Switch on and they stay that way until switched off, when they deactivate. (They might disengage for a moment if you back up.) Some folks use toggle switches etc. to prevent accidental switching by human or dog.Fair enough
Honest question can they be manually locked or unlocked ? I know the ARB can't and default to open when they lose air.
OEM can
Oh, l think OEM e locker is every bit as good as the Harrpo or the ARB, locked is locked and in 7 years of hard wheeling my 80 they have never failed me and they have 275k miles on them.
And I paid less for the 80 then those two boxs.
As to ARBs, Georg @orangefj45 (or maybe it was Ward @wardharris) has posted before about issues with those (and the lack of issues with HE's), and I for one am prepared to accept their testimony, as they've doubtless forgotten more about locker installs and maintenance than I'll ever know. A few of their posts my research turned up...
Oh yes I did! Harrop/Eaton E-Locker thread
At the risk sounding like I know what I am talking about.... PRICING - We try to price at wholesale so we don't lose money and so guys like Onur can put Ramen in the bowl. :cheers: I anticipate there will be plenty of Ramen to go around once these get installed on a couple of 80s...glad you...
forum.ih8mud.com
Anyone running a Harrop rear e-locker?
I am also getting ready to pull the trigger on my rear locker. I already have ARB on-board air compressor and was leaning towards the ARB. Is anyone running a rear Harrop elocker on their rig? The pros would be no worries about leaky air lines, etc. The only con that I have seen on the Harrop is...
forum.ih8mud.com
Anyone running a Harrop rear e-locker?
I am also getting ready to pull the trigger on my rear locker. I already have ARB on-board air compressor and was leaning towards the ARB. Is anyone running a rear Harrop elocker on their rig? The pros would be no worries about leaky air lines, etc. The only con that I have seen on the Harrop is...
forum.ih8mud.com
Anyone running a Harrop rear e-locker?
I am also getting ready to pull the trigger on my rear locker. I already have ARB on-board air compressor and was leaning towards the ARB. Is anyone running a rear Harrop elocker on their rig? The pros would be no worries about leaky air lines, etc. The only con that I have seen on the Harrop is...
forum.ih8mud.com
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That all great but doesn't answer the question.Default is open; switches provide power to activate the electromagnets. Switch on and they stay that way until switched off, when they deactivate. (They might disengage for a moment if you back up.) Some folks use toggle switches etc. to prevent accidental switching by human or dog.
As to ARBs, Georg @orangefj45 (or maybe it was Ward @wardharris) has posted before about issues with those (and the lack of issues with HE's), and I for one am prepared to accept their testimony, as they've doubtless forgotten more about locker installs and maintenance than I'll ever know. A few of their posts my research turned up...
Oh yes I did! Harrop/Eaton E-Locker thread
At the risk sounding like I know what I am talking about.... PRICING - We try to price at wholesale so we don't lose money and so guys like Onur can put Ramen in the bowl. :cheers: I anticipate there will be plenty of Ramen to go around once these get installed on a couple of 80s...glad you...
Anyone running a Harrop rear e-locker?
I am also getting ready to pull the trigger on my rear locker. I already have ARB on-board air compressor and was leaning towards the ARB. Is anyone running a rear Harrop elocker on their rig? The pros would be no worries about leaky air lines, etc. The only con that I have seen on the Harrop is...
Anyone running a Harrop rear e-locker?
I am also getting ready to pull the trigger on my rear locker. I already have ARB on-board air compressor and was leaning towards the ARB. Is anyone running a rear Harrop elocker on their rig? The pros would be no worries about leaky air lines, etc. The only con that I have seen on the Harrop is...
Anyone running a Harrop rear e-locker?
I am also getting ready to pull the trigger on my rear locker. I already have ARB on-board air compressor and was leaning towards the ARB. Is anyone running a rear Harrop elocker on their rig? The pros would be no worries about leaky air lines, etc. The only con that I have seen on the Harrop is...
If there a problem with the switch, wires, locker ECU or actuator with a OEM locker and your miles from civilization on a tough trail you can manually lock a OEM locker with just a few tools. then when you get back to the road you can manually unlock to drive on the road.
In my book that a huge plus and a big win for OEM lockers.
My guess is that with a Harrpo if theirs a issue with the switches, wiring, relay, electromagnets or any part of the system it will default to open and theirs no way to manually lock it.
Same with the ARB
That SUCKS
JMO
I don't have any experience with factory lockers, but I suspect if I had them I'd use them. I knew I wanted ARBs and that's what I run. The three issues I've run into with the ARBs are
1) oil spray makes a mess but vivid fixed that as there are plenty of masks lying around which I now use as a oil trap.
2) there was a a small air leak at the solenoid so the compressor ran too much at elevation. This never impacted the functioning of the locker, but was annoying. Easy fix
3) out if the box you can't lock just the front, but that is a single wire jumper which is easy enough to do.
In terms operability, I've never had an issue.
1) oil spray makes a mess but vivid fixed that as there are plenty of masks lying around which I now use as a oil trap.
2) there was a a small air leak at the solenoid so the compressor ran too much at elevation. This never impacted the functioning of the locker, but was annoying. Easy fix
3) out if the box you can't lock just the front, but that is a single wire jumper which is easy enough to do.
In terms operability, I've never had an issue.
I have found my Harrops to be very reliable. No issues.
Ah, okay. Good Q. If it fails, it doesn't have power. Old-School hotwire; bypass everything would be my *guess.* Cut the bypass when you hit the road again.That all great but doesn't answer the question.
If there a problem with the switch, wires, locker ECU or actuator with a OEM locker and your miles from civilization on a tough trail you can manually lock a OEM locker with just a few tools. then when you get back to the road you can manually unlock to drive on the road.
In my book that a huge plus and a big win for OEM lockers.
My guess is that with a Harrpo if theirs a issue with the switches, wiring, relay, electromagnets or any part of the system it will default to open and theirs no way to manually lock it.
Same with the ARB
That SUCKS
All good but what if it's the electromagnets that has a issue ?
Also I don't like the idea of the locker unlocking when you back up.
Edit: I'm just seeing this us an older thread. It popped up in a search and my head assumed it was a recent convo and I typed out a reply. Regardless, perhaps someone else searching threads will find it useful.
The Eaton (parts adopted by Harrop) does momentarily lock/unlock/lock when you change directions. For most this is a non-issue and they are a great option. They did have issues with electromagnets on early variants, more specifically the retainer. We ran them on Carl's rock-crawler in UROC competition nearly 20 years ago now. They have since improved design imo.
After 44 years there are over 500,000 (and that number is dated) ARB Air Lockers out in the wild and being used in some of the most austere conditions, Baja 1000, Dakar, King of the Hammers and the only vehicles to regular travel to the North & South pole do so with ARB's installed in place of OE e-lockers. The trucks we drove across the long axis of Greenland, ARB equipped. There are years the winners of all classes of KOH have been ARB equipped.
As such, you will absolutely deal with or hear of failures, nearly exclusively air supply. Many of those cases are blatant instal error, air supply lines out the bottom (yes bottom) of the diff, plastic airline (which the modern black lines is faaaar superior to the blue line) routed next to spinning shafts, hot exhaust, etc. But o-rings do fail after time and they should be on the same service interval as knuckles for example. We stock dozens and have sold hundreds (more appropriately thousands) of ARB's (and hundreds of Eatons, Auburns, Detroit, LockRights too) over the past 30+ years. They can all fail.
There are in fact plenty of documented cases of Harrop/Eaton failures/issues, again just as there are with ARB. It's my opinion that when we see over a half million Eaton's being used under the same wide range of users... stories like these below will be even more prolific. Fwiw these comments are all from a couple threads on FB.
(Recent FB comments on Eaton/Harrop e-lockers)
Now, for the OEM cable/e-locker. It has its own issues undoubtedly, particularly the 9.5" variant used on the 6x/7x/8x full-float and other semi-float/IFS/IRS applications. The issue is more related to the axle shaft failing and/or twisted splines between the locker's lock sleeve and the side great, making the repair very difficult and can require cutting a hole in the axle housing to resolve. This has been documented on Mud by myself and others over the years.
(This is where the 9.5" locker struggles for some)
But, for most, the OE lockers are fantastic, cleanest integration and parts are somewhat readily available.
Important to note, some newer application Land Cruiser (and other) OE lockers from Toyota are no longer the same slide actuator/sleeve design rather also electromagnetic but not using the Eatons ramping pins so they don't unlock with direction change. Jury is out on how well they last over time but thus far is been seemless operation. The rear could be retrofitted into the 80 rear without too much headache, the front is a different story.
(New style 9.5" OEM locker)
I have or have had ARB's, Eatons and OEM cable & e-lockers in dozens of personal/project rigs. I can't think of one situation I regretted the choice relative to the way I used the vehicles. Most of my stuff now has factory installed e-lockers with ARB being the runner-up and OE cable lockers being the least common but favored variety. Yes, I'm the luddite that would love a cable locker option in the 200 Series
The Eaton (parts adopted by Harrop) does momentarily lock/unlock/lock when you change directions. For most this is a non-issue and they are a great option. They did have issues with electromagnets on early variants, more specifically the retainer. We ran them on Carl's rock-crawler in UROC competition nearly 20 years ago now. They have since improved design imo.
After 44 years there are over 500,000 (and that number is dated) ARB Air Lockers out in the wild and being used in some of the most austere conditions, Baja 1000, Dakar, King of the Hammers and the only vehicles to regular travel to the North & South pole do so with ARB's installed in place of OE e-lockers. The trucks we drove across the long axis of Greenland, ARB equipped. There are years the winners of all classes of KOH have been ARB equipped.
As such, you will absolutely deal with or hear of failures, nearly exclusively air supply. Many of those cases are blatant instal error, air supply lines out the bottom (yes bottom) of the diff, plastic airline (which the modern black lines is faaaar superior to the blue line) routed next to spinning shafts, hot exhaust, etc. But o-rings do fail after time and they should be on the same service interval as knuckles for example. We stock dozens and have sold hundreds (more appropriately thousands) of ARB's (and hundreds of Eatons, Auburns, Detroit, LockRights too) over the past 30+ years. They can all fail.
There are in fact plenty of documented cases of Harrop/Eaton failures/issues, again just as there are with ARB. It's my opinion that when we see over a half million Eaton's being used under the same wide range of users... stories like these below will be even more prolific. Fwiw these comments are all from a couple threads on FB.
(Recent FB comments on Eaton/Harrop e-lockers)
Now, for the OEM cable/e-locker. It has its own issues undoubtedly, particularly the 9.5" variant used on the 6x/7x/8x full-float and other semi-float/IFS/IRS applications. The issue is more related to the axle shaft failing and/or twisted splines between the locker's lock sleeve and the side great, making the repair very difficult and can require cutting a hole in the axle housing to resolve. This has been documented on Mud by myself and others over the years.
(This is where the 9.5" locker struggles for some)
But, for most, the OE lockers are fantastic, cleanest integration and parts are somewhat readily available.
Important to note, some newer application Land Cruiser (and other) OE lockers from Toyota are no longer the same slide actuator/sleeve design rather also electromagnetic but not using the Eatons ramping pins so they don't unlock with direction change. Jury is out on how well they last over time but thus far is been seemless operation. The rear could be retrofitted into the 80 rear without too much headache, the front is a different story.
(New style 9.5" OEM locker)
I have or have had ARB's, Eatons and OEM cable & e-lockers in dozens of personal/project rigs. I can't think of one situation I regretted the choice relative to the way I used the vehicles. Most of my stuff now has factory installed e-lockers with ARB being the runner-up and OE cable lockers being the least common but favored variety. Yes, I'm the luddite that would love a cable locker option in the 200 Series
