Builds Putting the rust demon at bay (2 Viewers)

[archie73]

Windshield is back on. Its really happening!!!!

Took it for a spin. The smoke is pretty thick right now so the view of the Tetons isn’t as impressive.
Let it rain in California)

Everything is coming together with a few exceptions:

• 
  The coolant temperature never went over 190- with the fan on low and the front clip in place. This is good if a little cool, but manageable until I get it flashed again
• The power is smoooootthhh and consistent. Pulls right through the gears and doesn’t complain. (I haven’t hooked up the taillights yet, so I haven’t tested it on any sustained climbs. Hopefully soon)
• I need to make more room for the Tcase shifter. I’m popping out of high range due to (I hope) interference with the tunnel. Seemed good in the garage, but the road test says otherwise.
  
  
• Running/headlights are working upfront-taillights would be good too.
• I still have a intermittent loss of ground to the fuel pump. I will go a couple days without issue and then no signal to the pump relay. I’m guessing I have a bad pin out at the PCM.
• The front drive shaft is making contact with the down pipe in the exhaust. At first I thought it was the brake shudder, but then I felt it while the suspension lightly flexed. Add it to the list…
  
• Oh there’s a lot more, but these are top of mind
  
  
  
  

 

[archie73]

So I had a strange failure in the engine that set me back a while. Went to unload the truck off the trailer and it wouldn’t start at all. Messed with it on the trailer for a bit and finally had to back the trailer up to the garage and roll it in. Get it in and fires right up- very inconsiderate behavior.
Finally found the reason for the fuel pump not working- bad ground. Could of sworn I had tried this, but it fires every time now. Feeling good I fire it up in the garage just hear it run. Purrs for 3 seconds and falls on its face. Try again same result. Spend hours looking for grounds I may have disturbed, nothing changes. Search the internet- google points to VATS, but it was working so that seems very odd. After rechecking everything I had pulled a couple more times, I pullthe PCM, so I can ship it to the programmer. ( I wanted the cooling fans enabled anyway). He said he’s never had VATS turn back on, but he’d check it out.

This takes about a week to turn around- no change to the original tune. He flashed it again for good measure. He also gave me a couple possible leads to look for- Cam Position sensor, Crank Position Sensor and MAF. The first two are not as easy to check, so I unplugged the MAF and it made sweet music again!!! Looking back I tried to save a couple bucks on the MAF sensor and I think I lost. Lesson learned

I’m still learning about this, so feel free to correct me. If you remove the MAF from the equation, the engine runs off Speed Density. This is the engine essentially guessing at the amount of air coming into the engine. Apparently, this good for high revving engines that stay at a similar altitude. This is undesirable in my mind, so I’ll be getting a new sensor.

My other stumbling block is time. Summer is passing to fast and I need to spend time with the boy before school starts again…

 

[White Stripe]

I have found that as long as you get oem sensors that you will be fine. Aftermarket for these motors will give you not too great of results usually. You can also check for codes and look at live data. If you don't have a scanner, you can download torque for 5 dollars for you phone and get a blue tooth adapter for the obd2 plug. Their are oil pans that will give you more exhaust clearance. Also reducing the exhaust pipe size will give you more clearance. You can remove the driveshaft for now and enjoy it in 2wd it looks like. It may take a bit to work out bugs on such a large project.

 

[archie73]

I have found that as long as you get oem sensors that you will be fine. Aftermarket for these motors will give you not too great of results usually. You can also check for codes and look at live data. If you don't have a scanner, you can download torque for 5 dollars for you phone and get a blue tooth adapter for the obd2 plug. Their are oil pans that will give you more exhaust clearance. Also reducing the exhaust pipe size will give you more clearance. You can remove the driveshaft for now and enjoy it in 2wd it looks like. It may take a bit to work out bugs on such a large project.

Your reading my mind on the sensors, I have an AC Delco picked out. I have the OBDLink mx+ and was trying to use for diagnosing the issue, but it never threw a code. Maybe it wouldn’t run it long enough, I’m shooting in the dark here.

I’m doing my best to avoid swapping the oil pan, but if I have to I will. I think I have enough room to play with here that I sweep it toward the oil pan or ovalize that section. It’s moving up the list now that I figured out the MAF issue.

I have t noticed any updates on your build- too much fun with the 80?

 

[White Stripe]

Your reading my mind on the sensors, I have an AC Delco picked out. I have the OBDLink mx+ and was trying to use for diagnosing the issue, but it never threw a code. Maybe it wouldn’t run it long enough, I’m shooting in the dark here.

I’m doing my best to avoid swapping the oil pan, but if I have to I will. I think I have enough room to play with here that I sweep it toward the oil pan or ovalize that section. It’s moving up the list now that I figured out the MAF issue.

I have t noticed any updates on your build- too much fun with the 80?

You can look at live data and see if any sensors are reading weird.

My 80 has had a few bugs I've had to work out since its my daily. I think I will have the electric fans swapped in soon and I can get back to the 40.

 

[archie73]

You can look at live data and see if any sensors are reading weird.

I’ll have to figure that out- I’ve only had it a couple weeks.

. You can remove the driveshaft for now and enjoy it in 2wd it looks like. It may take a bit to work out bugs on such a large project.

-So I took your advice and pulled the driveshaft.to make it somewhat legal, I got the taillights grounded & found out running, brake and reverse(1st time) are all working. The LED turn signals are still alluding me, but this was good enough for a country cruise

Maybe not the most impressive stuff, but it’s the longest I’ve been able to drive it since the tear down last fall. Temps hovered between 190 and 195, even with a steep(ish) 800’ climb. Rpms are jumping around at idle still, which I assume is the VSS or lack there of. But it’s running enough now for some fun

There’s a trip to Vernal, Ut in mid October, so I need more moments like this.

 

[White Stripe]

The ecu will want a brake switch input using a 4 pin switch and a clutch switch input to help with idle if I recall. A 40 doesn't have a clutch switch on the pedal, that would have to be added. Vss will also give a more stable idle. You might be able to use a 80 series brake switch as they have 4 pins or just use a gm switch which you can get aftermarket cheap. You can still drive as is obviously, not a rush to install these parts. A company called jags that run may have a vss kit for a 40. They kind of screwed me last I ordered something from them but gave me my money back.

 

[mtweller]

What kind of intake temps are you seeing? I'm getting heat soak in my intake tube (assuming). At a stop it climbs quickly from ~15-25 above ambient to 160+ in some scenarios. My intake rides right above the upper rad hose, but I see your's is right over the exhaust. Mine was fabbed from aluminized 4" mandrel bends, so it might be a material issue. I'm planning to get a heat sleeve for the URH to see if that helps. Just curious.

 

[archie73]

What kind of intake temps are you seeing? I'm getting heat soak in my intake tube (assuming). At a stop it climbs quickly from ~15-25 above ambient to 160+ in some scenarios. My intake rides right above the upper rad hose, but I see your's is right over the exhaust. Mine was fabbed from aluminized 4" mandrel bends, so it might be a material issue. I'm planning to get a heat sleeve for the URH to see if that helps. Just curious.

View attachment 2770343

I’ll have to figure out how to get that for you. I routed it that way after reading @FF LC FREAK PLC build. I still need to build a shroud for the filter so it pulls directly from the air vent. Presumably, the silicone tubing will have less heat transfer then the aluminum, but I’m pretty much winging it. I’ll take it for a spin this weekend and let you know.

 

[archie73]

The ecu will want a brake switch input using a 4 pin switch and a clutch switch input to help with idle if I recall. A 40 doesn't have a clutch switch on the pedal, that would have to be added. Vss will also give a more stable idle. You might be able to use a 80 series brake switch as they have 4 pins or just use a gm switch which you can get aftermarket cheap. You can still drive as is obviously, not a rush to install these parts. A company called jags that run may have a vss kit for a 40. They kind of screwed me last I ordered something from them but gave me my money back.

I can’t use the JTR adapter due to my transmission output shaft not going as far back as stock and I’m using the AA propeller crossmember. I had looked into it, but it was a lot more fab work in my situation.

I had read that some we’re able to go with out, so I was gonna wait on that one.

I’d also talked to @cruisermatt and he is of the opinion that the stock sensor can be pointed at any spinning piece of metal and generate the signal. This lead me to think, when I cross this line, I could make a bracket that points at a driveshaft flange and get a signal. Another day

 

[cruisermatt]

Ive been wanting to try and put a port in the T-case PTO cover for a VSS for a clean look.

usually the lack of a VSS causes stalling on decel. If that’s not happening for you I wouldn’t expect much benefit from adding one. You wont hurt anything by trying one, though.

I don't get why 40 series LS swappers obsess over IAT’s so much

 

[archie73]

Ive been wanting to try and put a port in the T-case PTO cover for a VSS for a clean look.

usually the lack of a VSS causes stalling on decel. If that’s not happening for you I wouldn’t expect much benefit from adding one. You wont hurt anything by trying one, though.

I don't get why 40 series LS swappers obsess over IAT’s so much

At the moment the VSS is pretty low on the list and it seems to have bouncy idle. To your point though, it doesn’t effect drivability.

Honestly, I’m not sure how important the IAT is, but I’ve done as much interneting as I can for this swap. The aforementioned routing seemed reasonable, so I routed it away from the hot air. This also gave a nice straight section to locate my MAF. My tundra came to me with a cold air intake, so I can’t vouch for any increase in power or mpg. On the other hand, it has some basic logic to the concept. Are you running your filter off the throttle body? If so, are you not using a MAF? My understanding is that the main advantage to running one is change in altitude. (Maybe this is more important to those that live in mountainous terrain.)

 

[archie73]

What kind of intake temps are you seeing? I'm getting heat soak in my intake tube (assuming). At a stop it climbs quickly from ~15-25 above ambient to 160+ in some scenarios. My intake rides right above the upper rad hose, but I see your's is right over the exhaust. Mine was fabbed from aluminized 4" mandrel bends, so it might be a material issue. I'm planning to get a heat sleeve for the URH to see if that helps. Just curious.

View attachment 2770343

Without the MAF sensor I can’t get “live” readings, but if I plug in the MAF when it’s idling and warmed up, I get something like a 40* increase over ambient temperature (115*@75* & 98.6*&50*). I think this is normal from the internetting I’ve done.
When I get the new sensor I will get some live data. Also of note, I haven’t shielded the air filter from the engine compartment. I can feel it sucking from the side vent though.

 

[archie73]

What kind of intake temps are you seeing? I'm getting heat soak in my intake tube (assuming). At a stop it climbs quickly from ~15-25 above ambient to 160+ in some scenarios. My intake rides right above the upper rad hose, but I see your's is right over the exhaust. Mine was fabbed from aluminized 4" mandrel bends, so it might be a material issue. I'm planning to get a heat sleeve for the URH to see if that helps. Just curious.

View attachment 2770343

So I got the new MAF sensor in and I have a better answer for you on IATs. It was 50* outside and the sensor read 80* on flat road with engine temp reading 190*. Temps slightly when climbing up a long (but mild) incline. I still need to build the shroud for the air filter, but that seems to be slipping down the list as I work out the bugs on the swap. As to the exhaust affecting the temp, I think there’s enough space to make it negligible.

 

[archie73]

***I also posted this in the O R I ON sticky****

Drove over the pass(10% grade) Friday and couldn’t keep the transfer case in high range 2wd or 4wd( front driveshaft currently removed) on the way down. Got to work and drained the transfer case as a bit of a check up. Had 1.9qt in the case and a light sheen to the oil. The fill plug had a small amount of shavings and “metal paste”. Around 2500 miles on the Orion unit

Reached for 90wt and couldn’t find any, so I filled it with Librication Engineers 1605 Duotec(non GL4/5). Not wanting to play with the transfer case again in rush hour traffic, I used a bungee cord to hold the shifter in place and had a trouble free drive home.
I get home and removed the bungee cord and coast down a steep 1/2 mile dirt road. The case doesn’t pop out. Drive it some more and same thing. So what’s the difference- slightly more oil(thicker) or the tension on the shifter pulled it all the way in the position?
Also, is this an exceptable oil for the transfer case? It did quiet it some(I think). I believe the manual says it’s supposed to be GL4/5 but that’s to protect hypoid gears and synchros. If I understand the terminology, then the Orion has neither. Please school me if I’m wrong.

 

[archie73]

Gas gauge is intermittently working all of a sudden, oh boy chasing grounds. So I’ve been putting gas in pretty regularly, which lead me to check the mpg. Filled up in the morning, drove to work and over the pass on the way home. Stopped and filled it back up to measure the usage: 51 miles/2.8 gal=18.2 mpg. That was a nice surprise!!!

The drive to work has me thinking about a hibernation plan this winter. Along with fixing the various places this thing is leaking oil, I’m starting to think about a low end cam. It’s far from gutless, but I can’t say the SM465 makes a great match to the power band. It starts making power at 3500 rpm and it rarely gets over 2500 rpm. I’d say it’s usually under that day to day. I had a CompCam rv stick in my 350 and really liked it. I guess I’ll start looking for one for the lm7.
Since everyone loves a pic, here’s an articulation pic testing the drive shaft against the crossover pipe(passed, but failed the brake test)

 

[archie73]

So the drive to Vernal was a little slower than I had hoped. Started and ended in snow. At one point I was in a bit of a whiteout flurry, slow and steady wins the race though. Middle section was a grey, but very scenic drive though.

The trails in Vernal didn’t seem as plentiful as Moab, but they didn’t disappoint!! We spent four days splitting time between wheeling and biking. The Docs Beach area provided lots of area and slickrock to play with the trucks. We didn’t have great directions on any trail in particular, so we just wondered around looking for line that looked fun.

Since I was using my phone for gauges, I didn’t get any action pics.

We did get some nice scenery pics though.

On the last day the biking up by Red Fleet took longer than we expected, so the time remaining wouldn’t allow us to complete Red Mountain Trail. We made it halfway up the east side. Unfortunately, we burned up a bunch of time just finding the trail. The trail started out really nice with some slickrock climbs that slowly made way to looser climbs. Unfortunately, we felt the sun dipping lower as we followed a stream bed to a slickrock slab.

It would have been nice to make the whole loop, but this did seem like a good turnaround point.

I

 

[White Stripe]

Gas gauge is intermittently working all of a sudden, oh boy chasing grounds. So I’ve been putting gas in pretty regularly, which lead me to check the mpg. Filled up in the morning, drove to work and over the pass on the way home. Stopped and filled it back up to measure the usage: 51 miles/2.8 gal=18.2 mpg. That was a nice surprise!!!

The drive to work has me thinking about a hibernation plan this winter. Along with fixing the various places this thing is leaking oil, I’m starting to think about a low end cam. It’s far from gutless, but I can’t say the SM465 makes a great match to the power band. It starts making power at 3500 rpm and it rarely gets over 2500 rpm. I’d say it’s usually under that day to day. I had a CompCam rv stick in my 350 and really liked it. I guess I’ll start looking for one for the lm7.
Since everyone loves a pic, here’s an articulation pic testing the drive shaft against the crossover pipe(passed, but failed the brake test)View attachment 2782895

LS motors like to rev. Don't be afraid to get the rpms up when you need the power. You can set the rev limiter to 6k.

 

[archie73]

So Vernal was a shake down trip for the 40 and she did alright. There are some areas in need of attention though:

1. I was popping the coil fuse in the OEM fuse box. This is my keyed power for the engine and auxiliary fuses/relays. With 15amp fuses running low I did two things: moved the compressor power straight to the battery( it has its own in-line fuse) and ran a 20 amp fuse in the OEM fuse box. I know upping the fuse is not a great idea, but it worked for the weekend. I’m thinking the coil fuse will soon run a relay that will feed the engine and auxiliary fuse block.
2. Transfer case needs attention. The linkage is likely getting switched to a twin stick- way to sloppy. Time to switch the fluid out. Lastly( & likely to wait til winter) the Orion needs a bungee cord to stay in low range. That last one will have to wait til I’m ready to pull it again, hopefully this winter.
3. The LS was running on 6 cylinders. A new coil fixed one cylinder, but the other I’m guessing is my wiring. Oh boy, electrical tracing.
4. Passenger side O2 sensor is working( I think), but drivers side is intermittent and the reading seems odd. I wonder if cylinder 5 fouled it.
5. This is likely due to #3 or #4, it I bogged down really bad from time to time. I never got any codes from the pcm. One thing at a time.
6. I extended the bump stops before leaving on the trip and they seemed better. I think in extreme twist I occasionally had some rubbing. I’ll need to check in on them again.

Sounds less then perfect and it was, but boy was it fun. Truck was up for anything I wanted to try climbing up and over. Even with 6/7 cylinders it had enough power to do anything I had the cojones for. My stopping point there involved a steep climbs that required a good sized bump to get over the 2’ ledge so you could start climbing to the next step up. No one in our group felt up to it. Looked doable on YouTube, but in person not so much.

My buddies faired better but had issues to:

• The LJ had a habit of spitting out the coil on the front axle.
• The bronco is a beast, but wore a hole in the radiator and finished the last day on 7 cylinders as well.
• One buddy flew in and borrowed one of my bikes. On the last day the freewheel died a final death. This was the only bike failure of the trip- maybe a record for these trips. We must be getting old…

 

[archie73]

LS motors like to rev. Don't be afraid to get the rpms up when you need the power. You can set the rev limiter to 6k.

My thought here is that the engine will likely never see anything past 3500 rpm, so an RV cam seemed more suited to my uses. Truth be told the previous post is higher on the list now than a engine rebuild.