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- #161
The pinion is really where the big difference is...
Builds Peter's Ultimate Expo Land Cruiser Build Thread
- Thread starter Behemoth60
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- #162
Welding the Shave Plates
This weekend I got the shave plates welded to the bottom of the 14Bolt housings.
Tacked the plates into place.
Heated the housing to 400F with a tiger torch measured with an infrared thermometer
Welded inside and out.
Wrapped in a welding blanket to cool overnight.
The welding was pretty spattery. I blamed it on the cast iron, but in retrospect, I don't think I had enough wire speed. I had the welder turned up pretty high. (I am an amateur, after all!)
This weekend I got the shave plates welded to the bottom of the 14Bolt housings.
Tacked the plates into place.
Heated the housing to 400F with a tiger torch measured with an infrared thermometer
Welded inside and out.
Wrapped in a welding blanket to cool overnight.
The welding was pretty spattery. I blamed it on the cast iron, but in retrospect, I don't think I had enough wire speed. I had the welder turned up pretty high. (I am an amateur, after all!)
Just my .02 worth!
Peter...long time to talk! Cool sounding build you are embarking on here! As I read through your requirements they looked strikingly similar to what I had in mind as I planned the build on my expo rig. Now that I've got some time in the saddle, and since we have similar sounding goals...thought I'd post up a little feedback for ya;
1) GO EXTENDED CAB! Since you are starting with an empty shell, hack off the back of that thing and make it an extended cab. I did what I thought was enough room in mine (way more leg room that a 75 series cab) and still wished like hell I have added even 2" more to the cab length. You are WAY taller than me....just sayin
2) RU sure about those big ass tires? I'm running 37x13.50 Toyo's (which handled everything Rubicon could throw at it), but much prefer a set of 35s I run for longer trips like Death Valley. The difference between the two is night and day in power, handling and braking. MUCH nicer with the 35's. For power reference, I have a very healthy 12HT / H42 living under the hood with 4.11 gears.
3) NO A/C?? That is just plain silly talking right there!! GET A/C IN THERE!
Here's a link to the thread on PBB of how Don (FC Fab in Stockton) did the extended cab on mine...lots of good detailed images of the process
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-land-cruiser/1052686-bretts-fj31-2.html
Good luck on the build...hope to see you down Cali way soon!
Cheers,
Brett
Peter...long time to talk! Cool sounding build you are embarking on here! As I read through your requirements they looked strikingly similar to what I had in mind as I planned the build on my expo rig. Now that I've got some time in the saddle, and since we have similar sounding goals...thought I'd post up a little feedback for ya;
1) GO EXTENDED CAB! Since you are starting with an empty shell, hack off the back of that thing and make it an extended cab. I did what I thought was enough room in mine (way more leg room that a 75 series cab) and still wished like hell I have added even 2" more to the cab length. You are WAY taller than me....just sayin
2) RU sure about those big ass tires? I'm running 37x13.50 Toyo's (which handled everything Rubicon could throw at it), but much prefer a set of 35s I run for longer trips like Death Valley. The difference between the two is night and day in power, handling and braking. MUCH nicer with the 35's. For power reference, I have a very healthy 12HT / H42 living under the hood with 4.11 gears.
3) NO A/C?? That is just plain silly talking right there!! GET A/C IN THERE!
Here's a link to the thread on PBB of how Don (FC Fab in Stockton) did the extended cab on mine...lots of good detailed images of the process
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-land-cruiser/1052686-bretts-fj31-2.html
Good luck on the build...hope to see you down Cali way soon!
Cheers,
Brett
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- #164
Hiya Brett! Good to hear from you!
Your 60 series was definately inspriration in my decision to go away from the 74 style body and embrace the cab+Deck approach. I am also going to wholesale steal your rear drawer and tire carier concepts!
The 79 Cab is already stretched compared to a 45/75 cab. And maybe even strteched those 2" you are looking for when I look at your pictures.
I spent some quality time sitting in the cab before making the plunge, and I am happy with the seating position. Space behind the seats for a jacket or sandwich might be missed, but there are always compromises. I am trying to limit the body work on this project, as that is one thing that will definately crater this project is big custom body mods, as it's just not something I have the skills or interest in pursuing... plus.. sticking with a factory 79 cab means that if mine ever get's cratered from a roll over or something, it can replace the cab without having to worry anout replicating a bunch of modifications. At least, that's my thinking, anyway. I should take some more measurements, because it's not too late to chop up a cab....
Air conditioning.... Bah.. It was -32C this morning. I don't need air conditioning.
And as for tires... I've been happily runing on >39.5's for a long time, and really like the size. Did an old school road trip to Moab and back on some 41's in 2012, and had no regrets. A 12HT is nice and I am a bit jelous of that engine you got in that 60... but this is now thawing out in my garage...
Your 60 series was definately inspriration in my decision to go away from the 74 style body and embrace the cab+Deck approach. I am also going to wholesale steal your rear drawer and tire carier concepts!
The 79 Cab is already stretched compared to a 45/75 cab. And maybe even strteched those 2" you are looking for when I look at your pictures.
I spent some quality time sitting in the cab before making the plunge, and I am happy with the seating position. Space behind the seats for a jacket or sandwich might be missed, but there are always compromises. I am trying to limit the body work on this project, as that is one thing that will definately crater this project is big custom body mods, as it's just not something I have the skills or interest in pursuing... plus.. sticking with a factory 79 cab means that if mine ever get's cratered from a roll over or something, it can replace the cab without having to worry anout replicating a bunch of modifications. At least, that's my thinking, anyway. I should take some more measurements, because it's not too late to chop up a cab....
Air conditioning.... Bah.. It was -32C this morning. I don't need air conditioning.
And as for tires... I've been happily runing on >39.5's for a long time, and really like the size. Did an old school road trip to Moab and back on some 41's in 2012, and had no regrets. A 12HT is nice and I am a bit jelous of that engine you got in that 60... but this is now thawing out in my garage...
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- #165
Updates!
It's been a while, but I finally have some significant progress... the engine and transmission have arrived!
Here's the story on the engine: the engine was a take-out from a brand new truck that was written off in a train derailment, and bought from an auto-wrecker in USA. It was installed in a '99 F250 mated to the 2WD ZF S6 using a custom made adapted plate to keep the driveline short, and re-use the Cummins starter. It had about 100Mm on it when it was stolen, and the truck was damaged as the owner made chase through a construction zone where the truck suffered some suspension damage. It was not a write-off, but the insurance settled on the condition that the truck be repaired and re-inspected. The owner decided to part out the truck rather than repaid and re-inspect. I test drove it (the truck was drivable), and bought it, and now I have the engine.
It's got a bit of wear on it. There was an incident with the fan, and it's missing a few notches on the blade. A ding in the oil pan. Pressure/Temp sensors added to mate up to the Ford gauges. Main engine wiring harness re-wired to fit in the Ford.
First up, remove the old clutch, and flywheel to take off the custom adapter. This will go back to the seller who wants this back for a future project. You can see how much thicker the New adapter plate is.
It's been a while, but I finally have some significant progress... the engine and transmission have arrived!
Here's the story on the engine: the engine was a take-out from a brand new truck that was written off in a train derailment, and bought from an auto-wrecker in USA. It was installed in a '99 F250 mated to the 2WD ZF S6 using a custom made adapted plate to keep the driveline short, and re-use the Cummins starter. It had about 100Mm on it when it was stolen, and the truck was damaged as the owner made chase through a construction zone where the truck suffered some suspension damage. It was not a write-off, but the insurance settled on the condition that the truck be repaired and re-inspected. The owner decided to part out the truck rather than repaid and re-inspect. I test drove it (the truck was drivable), and bought it, and now I have the engine.
It's got a bit of wear on it. There was an incident with the fan, and it's missing a few notches on the blade. A ding in the oil pan. Pressure/Temp sensors added to mate up to the Ford gauges. Main engine wiring harness re-wired to fit in the Ford.
First up, remove the old clutch, and flywheel to take off the custom adapter. This will go back to the seller who wants this back for a future project. You can see how much thicker the New adapter plate is.
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- #166
Clutch on the new to me engine is exactly the one I need. It's a south bend, fits the input of the S5, and has very little wear on it. It also has a Teflon 'bushing' for the input shaft.
I am assembling now for fitment purposes, but perhaps a new clutch disk, and re-machine the flywheel housing and pressure plate and I am good to go when I do final assembly, but frankly, these parts have very little wear. Some of the original machined surface is still on the surfaces. But, it would be silly not to put in new parts.
I am assembling now for fitment purposes, but perhaps a new clutch disk, and re-machine the flywheel housing and pressure plate and I am good to go when I do final assembly, but frankly, these parts have very little wear. Some of the original machined surface is still on the surfaces. But, it would be silly not to put in new parts.
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- #167
And the ZF S5 transmission mates perfectly to the bellhousing adapter, and fits into the clutch. Nice.
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- #168
Next up, I tackled the Atlas Case.
I removed the input gear, as it is 32 spline, and the output of the ZF is 31 spline (I tried... just one spline seems to make a difference).
But, alas, this Atlas case is just plain old fashioned the wrong one.
Even though tranny and transfer case both have 6 bolt round flanges of the proper diameter, the ZF mounting holes are not equally spaced... one bolt does not line up.
Next problem, the ZF output is about 1/2" too long and will interfere with the main gear, even with the input gear removed.
These two problems are why this Atlas case cannot be made to work by swapping out the input, and why the Atlas case I bought is stamped 'GM/R'... because it only works on GM transmissions... specifically 32 spline outputs, such as the NV4500, TH400, 4L80, 4L60.
So, the Atlas I bought is for sale. I've posted it in the classifieds and on Pirate. If you are doing a 350 swap into a cruiser... you really should call me...
I will re-asses the t-case options, but I am pretty sure the Atlas is really the premier high strength, multi-range t-case on the market.
This is the picture of the planetary section removed, and the input to the main case that will interfere with the Transmission output by 1/2" or so.
I removed the input gear, as it is 32 spline, and the output of the ZF is 31 spline (I tried... just one spline seems to make a difference).
But, alas, this Atlas case is just plain old fashioned the wrong one.
Even though tranny and transfer case both have 6 bolt round flanges of the proper diameter, the ZF mounting holes are not equally spaced... one bolt does not line up.
Next problem, the ZF output is about 1/2" too long and will interfere with the main gear, even with the input gear removed.
These two problems are why this Atlas case cannot be made to work by swapping out the input, and why the Atlas case I bought is stamped 'GM/R'... because it only works on GM transmissions... specifically 32 spline outputs, such as the NV4500, TH400, 4L80, 4L60.
So, the Atlas I bought is for sale. I've posted it in the classifieds and on Pirate. If you are doing a 350 swap into a cruiser... you really should call me...
I will re-asses the t-case options, but I am pretty sure the Atlas is really the premier high strength, multi-range t-case on the market.
This is the picture of the planetary section removed, and the input to the main case that will interfere with the Transmission output by 1/2" or so.
Looking great! Too bad about the Atlas, sound you not make a 1/2" aluminum adapter to adapt the Ford/GM bolt pattern? That would also alleviate the other issue?
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- #170
I thought briefly about that, but I figure that may not solve the other problem about the unobtanium of a 31 Spline input shaft for this case, and the vendors (NorthWest Fabworks and Advance Adapters) both expressed concerns about the input bearing being too small to accept the 31 spline input shaft... I didn't really understand what the problem was, but I think it is related to the 1/2" interference.
Nope this will be exactly the right T-case for someone.
Actually, I was thinking about the NV4500... a 13B-T, NV4500, Atlas 4 might be a nifty driveline in a BJ74 based rock buggy.... I know engine swaps are pretty popular to repower Cruisers and a number of adapters are available to change engiens.... But what if you have a great engine... (a 13B-T), and want a better rest of the driveline?
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- #171
I borrowed the previous engine owners Craddle for the engine transport, and decided to build my own to roll the engine around the garage during the project. some 2x6's and deck screws, and two of those Princess Auto carts. I think I'll put some bigger casters directly to the cradle.... even with 8 wheels under that thing, it's everything I can do to roll it around.
I left a cut-out for the starter. It needs a Ford 6.0 Powerstroke starter. I hope I left a big enough spot for it.
I left a cut-out for the starter. It needs a Ford 6.0 Powerstroke starter. I hope I left a big enough spot for it.
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- #172
And some pictures of the Atlas 2.72 planetary reduction section...
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- #173
Haha! Wasn't thinking quite that small for tires
Looking good Peter...and I missed the part about your cab being a 79 series. I was thinking 75 and have been in a few 75 cabs an find them tight. Never been in a 79 cab, but I know they have allot more room.
I still think if you plan to drive this thing outside Canada you are nuts for not wanting A/C...but this would not be the first time we disagreed
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- #176
I wonder what they mean by the giant "THIS PRODUCT IS DISCONTINUED" words at the top of thier website page.
I wonder what they mean by the giant "THIS PRODUCT IS DISCONTINUED" words at the top of thier website page.
Its probably just a recomendation... Bummer, I wonder if there is any used units for sale anywhere.
edit: nope.
Ok, how about shave a NP205 input gear for a GM and a Ford, (31&32 splines) and then cut out a section of output off a GM trans or buy the output shaft, lathe the two 205 gears to the same OD and put them in a sleeve, weld together and slide the GM output in. Then you have to make an adapter, but it looks like you can draw in solid works.
Was there a 205 full time case used in the H2's? might be able to swap the iput for a ford transmission..
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- #178
And today is the day!
Engine sits in the frame.
Fits like a glove! Like an OJ Simpson glove.
Since the engine is sitting in it's cart, I am maneuvering the frame around the engine. It is now sitting below what should be the hood line, and about as far back as the factory engine sits. I believe it needs to tilt back somewhat, and as a result, a bit more forward.
The fan looks like it might interfere with my inboard steering box. I'll have to install that to see for sure.
Also, the power steering pressure line is in the wrong place... it will interfere with the steering shaft.
and that transmission needs to drop down. I don't have a measurement of how much, but quite a bit. I need to measure some land marks on my other 70's to know for sure how much
I am thinking that a little bit of body lift might be in my future. I am glad I decided on the 'small' ZF transmission.
Next step will be to lift the cab onto the frame and verify everything.
The mid frame cross member is going to interfere with the atlas by about 1". I will have to loose that cross member.
And there's a pile a stuff to be carefully stuffed under that hood! I'm not sure why no-one thought to mention this to me somewhere along the line, but that engine is HUGE.
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- #179
More pictures.
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- #180
And more
