- Thread starter
- #181
Let me know if you see any ridonculous oversights and interferences.
Builds Peter's Ultimate Expo Land Cruiser Build Thread
- Thread starter Behemoth60
- Start date
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That is one big fan, gonna be enough room for the rad and intercooler?
Shoehorn might be a good name...
Shoehorn might be a good name...
cool build 
My, that's a dainty motor you have there. 
The tightest points on mine are the starter, a lower coolant line that does a circle around the frame before it goes the rad, and the steering box is a bit tight, actually it probably wouldn't have fit without the electric fan either, but all those points will probably be snug on yours as well.
When are you going to put a cab on the frame and inner fenders to see where the rest of the tight spots are? Will you be using the cummins radiator or the 70 series? The rad on my 80 has been sufficient, the only thing I don't like is the inlet/outlet for the radiator are on opposite sides as the 6BT, and I have these awkward crossover piping pieces that take up space and one rubs against the hood a bit, A custom radiator or a brass one modified by a local shop to match the cummins might be nice. I was able to do that in the 80 I put the 350 in, but the one I have now is plastic I think?
When are you going to put a cab on the frame and inner fenders to see where the rest of the tight spots are? Will you be using the cummins radiator or the 70 series? The rad on my 80 has been sufficient, the only thing I don't like is the inlet/outlet for the radiator are on opposite sides as the 6BT, and I have these awkward crossover piping pieces that take up space and one rubs against the hood a bit, A custom radiator or a brass one modified by a local shop to match the cummins might be nice. I was able to do that in the 80 I put the 350 in, but the one I have now is plastic I think?
arnott1t
SILVER Star
whoa is that ever wedged in there. I'm trying to think of pukes 70's and others I've got to work on... never mind an intercooler can you even fit a rad in there??? That all looks very tight that's for sure. One thing to keep in mind is the flex of the engine. Even with good mounts I bet you'll see 3/4" movement sometimes.
My thoughts:
Mount rad in front of grill
Exhaust stack out hood and into air
Build a beefed up intercooler/bumper/winch mount
All kidding aside you've got some wedging to do..
Can't wait to see it progress even further.
My thoughts:
Mount rad in front of grill
Exhaust stack out hood and into air
Build a beefed up intercooler/bumper/winch mount
All kidding aside you've got some wedging to do..
Can't wait to see it progress even further.
- Thread starter
- #188
Or mount the rad/IC in the bed like the jungle trial trucks do
More realisitically, will probably be forced to forgo the radiatiro entirely, and get Air conditioning afterall, and use that to cool the engine.
No seriously, the Cummins factory rads and fans are made for moving 13607.771kg down a desert freeway at 120.701kmph. They are over sized for my application. A really good quality 70 series sized rad, and maybe a air/water intercooler will be sufficient to move 3175.147kg down a desert freeway.
Maybe a custom Griffin Rad is in the future. Then I can get the hoses exactly where I need them.
- Thread starter
- #189
I've looked around at some of the other t-case options. I am still convinced that the Atlas is the best option.
Stak 4x4 makes a nice kit... a 3 speed box. 5.44 and 3.05 and 1:1 ratios. It's a neat option.
http://www.stak4x4.com/Transfer_Cases/3speed.htm
Here's a picture of one bolted to my model of transmission...
http://www.bcbroncos.com/stak.html
But with the close ratio zf s5 and 3.7 gears for running the rig on the street, even 5.44 is not enough low gearing in the rocks... compare:
Ziplock, the BJ74 has H55f, 4.7 Toybox and 4.88 diffs. 1st gear ratio's...
H: 18.8
M: 44.7
L: 111.2
LL:210.2
I use the L most of the time. LL is rarely used, but appreciated when I have it.
The Expo truck with an Atlas4
H: 15.3
M: 41.7
L: 58.8
LL:160
The Expo truck with a Stak
H: 15.3
M: 46.7
L: 83.3
With no crazy-low option for extreme control. In this truck, I probably don't REALLY need the LL gear range. 83:1 is probably slow as I would need. But... the Atlas is only a few bucks more than the stak, I am not space-constrained and can fit the Atlas, and gearing is one of those things in the 'Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it' category.
Atlas it is.
Stak 4x4 makes a nice kit... a 3 speed box. 5.44 and 3.05 and 1:1 ratios. It's a neat option.
http://www.stak4x4.com/Transfer_Cases/3speed.htm
Here's a picture of one bolted to my model of transmission...
http://www.bcbroncos.com/stak.html
But with the close ratio zf s5 and 3.7 gears for running the rig on the street, even 5.44 is not enough low gearing in the rocks... compare:
Ziplock, the BJ74 has H55f, 4.7 Toybox and 4.88 diffs. 1st gear ratio's...
H: 18.8
M: 44.7
L: 111.2
LL:210.2
I use the L most of the time. LL is rarely used, but appreciated when I have it.
The Expo truck with an Atlas4
H: 15.3
M: 41.7
L: 58.8
LL:160
The Expo truck with a Stak
H: 15.3
M: 46.7
L: 83.3
With no crazy-low option for extreme control. In this truck, I probably don't REALLY need the LL gear range. 83:1 is probably slow as I would need. But... the Atlas is only a few bucks more than the stak, I am not space-constrained and can fit the Atlas, and gearing is one of those things in the 'Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it' category.
Atlas it is.
The cummins is torquey enough at idle and I think the SF 42 has a fairly low 1st gear, I suspect you may find it a bit slow even if your in the rocks at Moab, unless you want to be able to pull a "Marlin" (be your own spotter)while your on the trails.
Anyway, like you said, you'll have it wether or not you need it.
Anyway, like you said, you'll have it wether or not you need it.
- Thread starter
- #191
I invited my trusted advisor, "Shaker", over on Sunday for a private consultation regarding my project. I held up the intercooler and radiator in front of the engine sitting between the framerails. After he stopped laughing, we came up with some realistic strategies...
1. Widen frame by 4". The factory 70 series axles are 56" WMS to WMS. The 14 bolt is 68. I have to do some drawings in Visio to confirm that the 41" tires on 4" BS wheels turning 45" won't tag the frame, but 4" is the goal to get that engine and all it's dangly bits to comfortably hang in the frame.
2. A small body lift may be in order. Since I've already cut off all but 2 of the body mounts, and may need to widen the frame anyway, I may just cut them all off and start over...
3. The fan/rad/intercooler is sized to tow a giganto trailer down the freeay. I don't need that much cooling. I will go with a air/water intercooler stacked on top of the exhaust manifold. I will loose the factory fan and put an electric on a custom right-sized rad. The Alternator makes 136 amps, and big upgrades are available if needed, so I have tons of power for an electric fan.
A legitimate question could be asked about now... "Why even bother with the 70 series frame anymore? Why not build something custom that does exactly what you need?"
That is a legitimate question. It has a valid Alberta registration with the matching serial number. I've already done all the hard work on the frame (chopping off the unnecessary bits and cleaning it) so I basically have virgin frame rails already. At this point, I am inclined to continue with the frame, unless someone can convince me otherwise...
1. Widen frame by 4". The factory 70 series axles are 56" WMS to WMS. The 14 bolt is 68. I have to do some drawings in Visio to confirm that the 41" tires on 4" BS wheels turning 45" won't tag the frame, but 4" is the goal to get that engine and all it's dangly bits to comfortably hang in the frame.
2. A small body lift may be in order. Since I've already cut off all but 2 of the body mounts, and may need to widen the frame anyway, I may just cut them all off and start over...
3. The fan/rad/intercooler is sized to tow a giganto trailer down the freeay. I don't need that much cooling. I will go with a air/water intercooler stacked on top of the exhaust manifold. I will loose the factory fan and put an electric on a custom right-sized rad. The Alternator makes 136 amps, and big upgrades are available if needed, so I have tons of power for an electric fan.
A legitimate question could be asked about now... "Why even bother with the 70 series frame anymore? Why not build something custom that does exactly what you need?"
That is a legitimate question. It has a valid Alberta registration with the matching serial number. I've already done all the hard work on the frame (chopping off the unnecessary bits and cleaning it) so I basically have virgin frame rails already. At this point, I am inclined to continue with the frame, unless someone can convince me otherwise...
Last edited:
Awl_TEQ
Supporting Vendor
Hmmmm.... Widening wasn't in the plan for my 45. I am stubbornly going to stuff mine in and jump on the hood to clearance the finer bits. Someday.
arnott1t
SILVER Star
Those are some big adds to the build. Is there just no length for the rad and a proper intercooler? I just done think air to water ones are any good for most things other than a drag car with an ice box. Added complexity. Much like your electric fan.... That being said I don't think the fan will cut in much for typical duties of the truck.
Is really strive for a mechanical fan and a air to air cooler. In that order.
Is really strive for a mechanical fan and a air to air cooler. In that order.
This is a question or a cross roads I got too in my swap. I had a Griffin rad that was almost perfect for my swap. I started fitting it up and then realized if I was on a trip somewhere with out my shop and tools/welders. I would be SOL if I put a stick through it or damaged it otherwise.
That realization quickly started changing all other aspects of my swap. Everything used now is readily available at any parts store and if its custom it can be easily bypassed or its so over built it will never (I hope) break.
My swap is nothing like the magnitude of your build though.
Is there a plan to move the ECU higher away from possible water submerging?
That realization quickly started changing all other aspects of my swap. Everything used now is readily available at any parts store and if its custom it can be easily bypassed or its so over built it will never (I hope) break.
My swap is nothing like the magnitude of your build though.
Is there a plan to move the ECU higher away from possible water submerging?
If you really want all necessary parts readily available a Land Cruiser is probably not a good choice for North America. I know I couldn't get a radiator for my 80 at a parts store. Even the dealer here wouldn't have one (whether FJ80, FZJ80 or HDJ81).
Build it the best you can and if it breaks/fails I'm sure you could figure something out.
Build it the best you can and if it breaks/fails I'm sure you could figure something out.
I think you need to set the frame at "ride height" and put the engine, front axle, cab and a hood on to really see what you need to do. I'd be worried about setting the motor too low, reducing your up travel and thus causing you to add more lift that you want.
If you are worried about a legal frame with a valid VIN, cutting the number off and welding it to a tube frame is as legal as you widening the frame yourself. It has to be welded by a welder bonded to weld on vehicle frames to be fully "legal", not that anyone worries about that sort of thing.
If you are worried about a legal frame with a valid VIN, cutting the number off and welding it to a tube frame is as legal as you widening the frame yourself. It has to be welded by a welder bonded to weld on vehicle frames to be fully "legal", not that anyone worries about that sort of thing.
- Thread starter
- #197
That engine fits. Well. I will make that engine fit....
Very nice spacing between engine/firewall. Could even move it back another inch.
Almost perfect placing of the tansmission shifter... Shfter is a bit forward of the factory location, I wonder if maybe too far forward for the dashboard? Hmmm...
Tranny clears with no 'body lift.
Fan is too big. An electric is in my future.
Problem will be clearing the exhaust down pipe. This is why engine needs to sit forward... only about 4.5" to make the down turned behind the turbo and in front of the firewall.... this will take some fittng. Maybe a custom or aftermarket manifold will help? I want to avoid firewall mods.
Also very tight to actually run the exhaust... A few inches of frame widening will be required to fix that., as well this will allow me to lower the engine a bit more.
Had to cut the left inner fender to clear the power steering. I'll be losing those inner fenders anyway. Right inner fender fit no problem.
Engine still sits abotu 3" too high at the front... hood doesn't close over the oil filler and Fan. Maybe a body lift, widen the frame and lower the engine a bit? there are options.
Very nice spacing between engine/firewall. Could even move it back another inch.
Almost perfect placing of the tansmission shifter... Shfter is a bit forward of the factory location, I wonder if maybe too far forward for the dashboard? Hmmm...
Tranny clears with no 'body lift.
Fan is too big. An electric is in my future.
Problem will be clearing the exhaust down pipe. This is why engine needs to sit forward... only about 4.5" to make the down turned behind the turbo and in front of the firewall.... this will take some fittng. Maybe a custom or aftermarket manifold will help? I want to avoid firewall mods.
Also very tight to actually run the exhaust... A few inches of frame widening will be required to fix that., as well this will allow me to lower the engine a bit more.
Had to cut the left inner fender to clear the power steering. I'll be losing those inner fenders anyway. Right inner fender fit no problem.
Engine still sits abotu 3" too high at the front... hood doesn't close over the oil filler and Fan. Maybe a body lift, widen the frame and lower the engine a bit? there are options.
- Thread starter
- #198
Cab/Transmission placement.
- Thread starter
- #199
With Fenders
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- #200
Radiator may need some slight adjustments
