Oil Recommendations and Discussion Thread for FAQ

[scottm]

My totally subjective data point: When I switched both my 80s from Mobil1 15W-50 to Rotella T synthetic 5W-40, they both stopped leaking oil almost entirely. I had epoxied my garage floor mostly to make cleaning up the constant oil leaks easier. Both did about 50k on Mobil1 and 50k on Rotella.

 

[Nottajeep]

Bob is the Man and defies our logic (Atleast the 20w-50 guys)

I just read a really good write up from Bob the Oil guyMotor Oil 101 - By Dr. Haas. Bob's bottomline is "I truly believe that oil is much better being too thin than too thick. Over the years we have been going to thinner and thinner oils despite hotter engines with turbos and the like. The tendency is that people figure they need a 40 grade oils but then use a 50 instead. Better thinking is that if you think you need a 40, use a 30 grade oil instead. I firmly believe this based on all I know about oils."
I am running a 1/2 mix of M1 HM 10w-30 and 10w-40, but I am curious how the 0w or 5w High Mileage stacks up. "90% of engine wear occurs during the startup!"

 

[98 SNAKE EATER]

I just read a really good write up from Bob the Oil guyMotor Oil 101 - By Dr. Haas. Bob's bottomline is "I truly believe that oil is much better being too thin than too thick. Over the years we have been going to thinner and thinner oils despite hotter engines with turbos and the like. The tendency is that people figure they need a 40 grade oils but then use a 50 instead. Better thinking is that if you think you need a 40, use a 30 grade oil instead. I firmly believe this based on all I know about oils."

It's true

Most people step up to thicker grades because their engines tend to burn/consume less, however, the thicker you go, the more damage you do during cold start up

It's actually better to continue using a thin grade and add when needed

 

[80t0ylc]

From post# 1(red highlighting added):

.........Per the FSM the fluid recommendations are as follows:

Engine oil
Dry fill 8.0 liters (8.5 US qts, 7.0 Imp. qts)
Drain and refill w/ Oil filter change 7.4 liters (7.8 US qts, 6.5 Imp. qts)
w/o Oil filter change 6.9 liters (7.3 US qts, 6.1 Imp qts)
API grade SH, Energy-Conserving II multigrade
engine oil or ILSAC multigrade engine oil and
recommended viscosity oil, with SAE 5W-30 being
preferred engine oil............

I notice Romer's rig is a '97, so this might have changed. My '94 oil cap, owners manual and FSM all say 10W-30 is the recommended oil viscosity for engines run normally over 0* F. 5W-30 for temps under 0*F.

.........I am running a 1/2 mix of M1 HM 10w-30 and 10w-40, ...........

Just curious why you are doing this. I have read that mixing oil brands, types or viscosities is a bad idea and serves no purpose. If you want to run on the thin side and hold Bob the oil guy's opinion in high regard, just run the straight 10W-30 or better yet, the 5W-30, the preferred viscosity mentioned at the beginning of this thread.

 

[Nottajeep]

I was running M1 10W-30 and leaking more oil than I was burning.
Therefore, I changed to the high mileage and didn't want to go to heavy so I mix the 30W and 40W.
I do have to admit. The leaks have slowed or just about disappeared since changing to this mix.

Tom- if you read the article (Part 6) "If you are using Mobil 1 then it is acceptable to mix different grades but use a close grade when possible." Unless I am missing something 30 and 40W are close.

 

[80t0ylc]

I was running M1 10W-30 and leaking more oil than I was burning.
Therefore, I changed to the high mileage and didn't want to go to heavy so I mix the 30W and 40W.
I do have to admit. The leaks have slowed or just about disappeared since changing to this mix.

Tom- if you read the article (Part 6) "If you are using Mobil 1 then it is acceptable to mix different grades but use a close grade when possible." Unless I am missing something 30 and 40W are close.

Ok, I'm with you now. I just read part 6 and some other research and can see that, yes, you can mix like you said. It's not the best fix, but can help with high mileage engines for a while. Best long term fix, of course, is the tear down and rebuild, but then we're talking $ & some elbow grease. Not to mention having the time to do it, also.

 

[Tools R Us]

It's true

Most people step up to thicker grades because their engines tend to burn/consume less,

Or in some cases, prefer to use the oil recommended by Toyota engineers over politician mandated.

however, the thicker you go, the more damage you do during cold start up ...

Here is landtank's test of 15W-50, run 14,800 miles, please point out the damage done to the motor. Any wear would result in metals showing in the test, agree? My interpretation of this test is it shows less wear than most others that I have seen, most of which were lower viscosity and less miles run.

IH8MUD Forum - View Single Post - M1 Extended oil

 

[Nottajeep]

Or in some cases, prefer to use the oil recommended by Toyota engineers over politician mandated.



Here is landtank's test of 15W-50, run 14,800 miles, please point out the damage done to the motor. Any wear would result in metals showing in the test, agree? My interpretation of this test is it shows less wear than most others that I have seen, most of which were lower viscosity and less miles run.

IH8MUD Forum - View Single Post - M1 Extended oil

I do not see any damage done, but I don't know the background to his LC either. (previous oil, change intervals over the life, etc...) I guess the real question is what is the viscosity at cold start (that was not tested in his report). I can not make out the temperature reading with 103.2 viscosity data point. It is out of range and looks like it should be lower. The real answer to your question probably lies in the comments at the top of landtank's analysis. "These engines tend to wear very well". (which is why I bought my LC). Plus Landtank is running a M1, albeit a 15W-50, which we all know M1 is the $hit. I think Mr. T spec'd a 5W/10W for a reason and the point is Bob and Mr. T agree with the 1st number, although Bob is saying lower weight is better. I would not use Landtank's sample as a reason to go against the engineers.

My second thoughts after reading this article again brings up another question. One that seems very complex...

How do we calculate this equation for the 1FZ-FE?
For YOUR engine, substitute the actual flow at 1,000 RPM.
We should use an oil that gives us 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM
The answer to this would stear us to the correct grade of oil to use and be adjusted for the amount of wear on the engine. Bob does state in the article that as the engine becomes worn changing the grade of oil is a proper method to use.
I just do not know where to find the answer to the flow rate question. Scanguage? If so, I am interested in getting one. Bueller?

 

[Tools R Us]

I do not see any damage done, but I don't know the background to his LC either. (previous oil, change intervals over the life, etc...) I guess the real question is what is the viscosity at cold start (that was not tested in his report). I can not make out the temperature reading with 103.2 viscosity data point. It is out of range and looks like it should be lower. The real answer to your question probably lies in the comments at the top of landtank's analysis. "These engines tend to wear very well". (which is why I bought my LC). Plus Landtank is running a M1, albeit a 15W-50, which we all know M1 is the $hit.

I agree that the 1FZ is a great wearing motor and Mobil One is good oil, but it’s not miracle lube. The motor history, viscosity details are irrelevant, they are what they are. The fact is landtank’s wear numbers were fantastic with that oil, could hardly hope for better. The argument was:

... however, the thicker you go, the more damage you do during cold start up
...

This is not true, as long as viscosity is correct for the climate and operating load conditions, wear will be low.

I think Mr. T spec'd a 5W/10W for a reason and the point is Bob and Mr. T agree with the 1st number, although Bob is saying lower weight is better. I would not use Landtank's sample as a reason to go against the engineers.

What engineers are you referring to, government politicians or Toyota? The US spec is highly influenced by politicians/lawyers and I agree that the government/corporate machine goes out of their way to justify their decision to mandate lower viscosity oils in the US. Here is the recommended oil chart for everywhere but the US, for the same 1FZ motor.

...
1FZ-FE recommended oil viscosity from Australia

Fahrenheit
19 to 100___20w-50
14 to 100___15w-40
0 to 100____10w-30
-22 to 46 ___5w-30

Celsius
-7 to 38___20w50
-10 to 38__15w40
-18 to 38__10w30
-30 to 8___5w30
...

On the scan I have the first line reads: 19 to 100 Plus___20w-50

My second thoughts after reading this article again brings up another question. One that seems very complex...

How do we calculate this equation for the 1FZ-FE?
For YOUR engine, substitute the actual flow at 1,000 RPM.
We should use an oil that gives us 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM
The answer to this would stear us to the correct grade of oil to use and be adjusted for the amount of wear on the engine. Bob does state in the article that as the engine becomes worn changing the grade of oil is a proper method to use.
I just do not know where to find the answer to the flow rate question. Scanguage? If so, I am interested in getting one. Bueller?

Calculate, speculate all you want, but there are tons of oil tests posted here, done on real rigs/motors, driven in real life and many more that haven't been posted. Among the ones that I have seen, the ones that run the “for the rest of the world spec” oil, consistently result is slightly better wear numbers. The choice comes down to who you put your trust in, US government mandated oil selection or the oil that Toyota engineers select without US government influence.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Here's my last 4 reports running 15w40. Temp range 20-115f
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/328281-my-4th-blackstone-report.html

 

[Nottajeep]

M1 0W-40 Results

Alvin- Those are good results. Did you have any TBN or not tested? What's the scoop with low CA.

I have read some of the analysis with 0W-40 https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/10995-used-oil-analysis-mobil-1-0w-40-unreal.htmland they are even shocking to the guys at Blackstone. However, some are experiencing heavy consumption. Curiosity is starting to kill me I will be sending in for a Blackstone report soon. I just ran a big trip wheeling in West TX in March and a vacation from TX to the Smoky Mts wheeling there and also towed a 5600lb trailer up and down a huge and incline in 4L. Plus city driving in 100F + temps since then. My last oil change was in mid-March 6K+ miles ago. To say the least, I have really challenged the LC. I'll report back results. Anyone figured out a place to put all of this great data?

 

[Nottajeep]

UOA M1 HM 10w30/40 Mix

I noticed on my previous report Blackstone Labs used the 4.7 V8 LC motor. I am reposting the amended report with these comments from the Analyst:

"We have made the necessary changes, and emailed you an amended report. The change in engine type actually made your results better, simply because the owners of 4.5L engines that have sampled with us don't run their oil as long as the 4.7L owners do. Toyota makes some very nicely wearing engines, so we don't see any reason why any of the 4.5L samples could not have been run longer. Try extending your oil run even further next time. We think you will be impressed with the results."

I think I will go 9k this next time and not change the oil until the next analysis is complete.
The oil in the report is M1 HM mixed 10w40/30 3 to 1, with 1qt+ topped off 10w40. Considering the viscosity of 10w40 the oil is right in line (report has 10w30 viscosity listed). I also used the small yota filter this last time, but switching to the big YOTA filter now and running 1/2 and 1/2 mix with the oil. Overall this oil is impressive for ~$4/qt at Wally Mart.

 

[ERG80]

Heads up to those of you running 15w40. Mobil has a promotion running until May 31. $4.00 off a gallon or $20 off a 5 gallon pail of Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 oil. Walmart had the gallon jugs for $9.99 last time i was there.

Link to the rebate:
Mobil USA | Heavy-Duty Engine Oils | Mobil Delvac Spring Rebate

 

[SPECTRE]

This info seems to be geared more towards the 1FZ engine.
Is there any similar info for the 3FE engines ?

 

[raydouble]

This info seems to be geared more towards the 1FZ engine.
Is there any similar info for the 3FE engines ?

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/15630-best-oil-weight-use.html

In the 60/62 series FAQ

 

[Tacoma4life]

Here's my addition to this thread. It's a very nice comparison of the major brands conventional 5w-30's. I'm personally a big fan of Havoline, so I was excited (but not surprised) to see it is one of the few that still incorporates moly as an anti wear additive. Good stuff...
Petroleum Quality Intitute of America

 

[fj4068]

OCD BITOG/1FZ-philes take note--while browsing the shelves at a local discount auto parts store I noticed that Castrol is now marketing a US-spec 5W-50 touting the benefit of increased ZDDP for older (design) engines:

Castrol USA - EDGE 5W-50 with SYNTEC<br>Power Technology

OTOH I recently discovered that M1 5W-50 is available in the US from limited distributors. Unlike some of the M1 offerings it has a nice HTHS spec. Mobil 1 5W-50, M1 5W-40 TD & this new Castrol 5W-50 have HTHS numbers of 4.4, 3.8 & 3.7 respectively. Edit: M1 5W-50 is available at AvLube.com.

 

[PDoyle]

Heads up to those of you running 15w40. Mobil has a promotion running until May 31. $4.00 off a gallon or $20 off a 5 gallon pail of Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 oil. Walmart had the gallon jugs for $9.99 last time i was there.

Link to the rebate:
Mobil USA | Heavy-Duty Engine Oils | Mobil Delvac Spring Rebate

Rebate page is gone- Page not found.

 

[ERG80]

Rebate page is gone- Page not found.

Yeah, i posted that last year.

heres one for 2012
Mobil USA | Heavy-Duty Engine Oils | Mobil Delvac Rebate Rules

 

[PDoyle]

My bad sorry.
I've been using M1 5w-30. I have 166k total miles. Any benefits to going to M1 5w-40 now?