Oil Recommendations and Discussion Thread for FAQ (1 Viewer)

[Hayes]

We could also create a place to post Oil analysis results. Interested in the forum members thoughts

I like this idea.
I've resolved to get a UOA with my next oil change, and it would be nice to have something to reference my results to.

Bobistheoilguy is a great resource for lube info, but an 80-focused version on MUD would be ideal.

Hayes

 

[RavenTai]

Originally Posted by Romer
We could also create a place to post Oil analysis results. Interested in the forum members thoughts

I'll start, here are my 4 results, got one more comign soon, not bad but not near as good as this engine is capable of. Bearing wear is about twice as high as average but trending down. Best guess I have come up with is that this is old minor bearing wear that is settling down from a K&N filter that the PO was running. That is likely to be right as it is wrong.

Note M1 mix is mainly Mobil 1 SS 10w-30 with a few quarts of 15w-50 to raise the viscosity; I use this in the winter.

One thing to remember about looking at these numbers is the miles on the oil, the more miles the higher the number will be

oil miles      5,491      6,362      3,948      5,200       Unit      1FZ-FE 
unit miles   131,878    126,407    120,045    116,100    Average     Average
Date          6/9/05     3/4/05   11/13/04    9/11/04     5,250     5k miles 
oil         M1 0W-40     M1 mix  M1 15w-50   Delvac 1     miles  
____________________________________________________________________________
Aluminum           2          2          2          2          2           2
____________________________________________________________________________
Chronium                      1                                0           0
____________________________________________________________________________
Iron               9          7          4          7          7           7
____________________________________________________________________________
Copper             1          1          1          4          2           3
____________________________________________________________________________
Lead               5          7          4          9          6           3
____________________________________________________________________________
Tin                1          1          1          5          2           1
____________________________________________________________________________
Molybdenum        72         56         58          1         47          41
____________________________________________________________________________
Nickel                                              
____________________________________________________________________________
Manganese                                                  
____________________________________________________________________________
Silver                                              
____________________________________________________________________________
Titanium                                                     
____________________________________________________________________________
Potassium          1                                4          2           1
____________________________________________________________________________
Boron            139        110        115         21         96          50
____________________________________________________________________________
Silicon            8          6          8         12          9           9
____________________________________________________________________________
Sodium             3          3          3          3          3           4
____________________________________________________________________________
Calcium         3123       2142       2760       2242       2617        2448
____________________________________________________________________________
Magnesium         19         15         66        439        135          72
____________________________________________________________________________
Phosphorus       862        763       1139       1026        925         857
____________________________________________________________________________
Zinc            1089        835       1295       1209       1107        1041
____________________________________________________________________________
Barium
____________________________________________________________________________
Vis@  210°F       67.8       66.9       84.7       74.8       73.5    varies
____________________________________________________________________________
Flashpoint°F     410        365        385        385        385        >375
____________________________________________________________________________
Fuel              <0.5       <0.5       <0.5        0.5       <0.5      <2.0
____________________________________________________________________________
Antifreeze                                                     
____________________________________________________________________________
Water                                                          0        <0.1
____________________________________________________________________________
Insolubles         0.3        0.4        0.4        0.3        0.35     <0.6
____________________________________________________________________________
TBN                           3.7

Blackstone comments in order


116,100 miles
RAVEN: Lead (bearings) was mildly high in the first sample from your Lexus, though this is the only
wear metal out of line. The universal averages column shows typical wear from this type of engine
after 4,800 miles on the oil. This level of lead isn't high enough to show a major problem, but will be
something to keep an eye on in future samples. It could be related to the fuel dilution we found. 0.5%
is not high enough to call a problem and may be normal if you do a lot of city driving or idling.
Everything else looks great. Suggest staying at 5,000 miles on the oil for now.

120,045 miles
RAVEN: We found a nice improvement in lead this time with the shorter oil use. All other wear metals
were lower than your last sample, and generally lower than the universal averages for this type
engine, which are based on a 4,900 mile oil use. No significant (<0.5%) fuel was found this time, and
the sample was free of water and antifreeze. Insolubles (oil oxidation due to heat, use, and blow-by)
were normal at 0.4%, showing good oil filtration. The low silicon count shows that air filtration is
working well. Suggest running 4,000-4,500 miles for the next sample.

126,407 miles
RAVEN: Even with mixing of oil types and grades, your viscosity stayed in the normal range for a
10W/30, and would be okay for a 10W/40 as well. The only variance we are seeing in wear sample to
sample is the lead amount, which is back up to a high reading in this oil, which was run 6,263 miles in
the engine. There were traces of gas in the oil though not enough to typically hurt anything. We can't
tell you why lead reads as it does, but we'd feel more comfortable if it read at an average 2-ppm. The
TBN was 3.7, so lack of TBN is not the problem.

131,878 miles
RAVEN: Nice improvement in lead. We are not sure what's causing it to increase and decrease --
maybe it's your driving habits. In any case, it's not really hurting anything, even when it's reading high.
Other wear looks good and shows no changes that would indicate a new problem in your Lexus. No
moisture, fuel, or coolant was present in this sample. The viscosity was normal for Mobil 10W/40 oil.
Insolubles were fine at 0.3%, showing good oil filtration and complete combustion. Your engine is
looking good at 131,878 miles. Try going back to 6300-6500 miles next time.

 

[FirstToy]

My unscientific impressions-

I just changed over to Chevron Delo 400 15w-40, Toyota OEM filter.
PO had 5w-40 oil (a guess, it is thin) and ProMotive PH1A oil filter

I noticed:
-engine sounds much quieter at idle. "smoother" sounding
-oil pressure gauge stays up at the 3/4 mark for awhile longer on cold starts. The overall oil pressure is slightly higher I think, but I didn't carefully record where it was before the change.

Is the pressure something to be concerned about?

I may try that Blackstone oil analysis, never done it before and am curious.

 

[tarbe]

My unscientific impressions-

I just changed over to Chevron Delo 400 15w-40, Toyota OEM filter.
PO had 5w-40 oil (a guess, it is thin) and ProMotive PH1A oil filter

I noticed:
-engine sounds much quieter at idle. "smoother" sounding
-oil pressure gauge stays up at the 3/4 mark for awhile longer on cold starts. The overall oil pressure is slightly higher I think, but I didn't carefully record where it was before the change.

Is the pressure something to be concerned about?

I may try that Blackstone oil analysis, never done it before and am curious.

Your pressure stays up higher longer after start-up because the Delo is far higher in viscosity than ideal at less than operating temp. The 5W-40 is too thick at low temp, but not so much as the 15W-40.

If the PO used 5W-40, the viscosity at operating temp will be indistinguisable (more or less) from the Delo you are using now.

Perhaps it was not 5W-40 or if it was a 40, maybe it sheared down to 30.

I can tell the difference on my oil pressure gauge if the difference between the oils is 3cSt or so. But I can't see the difference between say a 10 and an 11. Maybe my gauge is less sensitive than yours??

 

[FirstToy]

Actually I think you're right- 5w-30 is what they probably ran.

Honestly, I have no idea how to read the oil pressure gauge. It goes up n' down while driving so as long as it's moving I guess it's fine.
As for how much higher, I'm not sure but it doesn't seem to be reading much higher than it was- just stays up for a bit longer... I think. Sorry for being so unscientific about that.

I do like how it quieted down the engine and it being a high-quality oil. I'll see how it affects me this go-round.

 

[RavenTai]

have a look at this thread for readign the oil pressure gauge

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=57216&highlight=oil+pressure+gauge

but basically oil pressure will be high when the oil is cold at all RPMs, after the oil warms up the pressure will follow RPM, being low at idle and high at cruising speed. the thicker to oil the sooner it will "peg out" (open pressure relif valve) as you increase RPM.

 

[semlin]

this is strictly a tip for canadians who want to runa 0w40. I have not been able to get 0w40 synthetic mobil 1 except special ordered from esso in 1 litre bottles in cases of 24 but I have found that the Crappy Tire in north vancouver stocks Shell Rotella full synthetic 0w40 at $30 for 4 litres. that is a good deal and as the attached link and links within it show it is very close to mobil 1 spec and certainly better than any other synth I can find.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=46732&highlight=rotella

 

[Romer]

Here is mpore information on ATF with a link to the thread cary started

I am putting this in its own thread because how ATF fluids are labeled has been changed as a result of General Motors poor handling of the licensing of the name "Dexron".

Dexron is a specification put forth by General Motors for Transmission Fluid. Each new specification automatically includes the prior specification. So Dexron III fluid satisfies all requirements for Dexron II.

Periodically, we have had people ask the question "My manual says Dexron II, I can only find Dexron III, is this ok to use?" The answer is yes because of the later specification, includes the earlier.

Now we have a new issue. GM has put out Dexron VI. Where did Dexron IV and V go? GM was worried that people might get confused between the Ford Mercon V and their fluid, so they just skipped IV and V, go figure.

As part of putting out Dexron VI, GM has stopped licensing the use of the name Dexron III and doesn't want any bottles to reference it. So what has happened is that Dexron III fluids now say things like "for use in GM vehicles before 2005."

So what ATF do you use in your 80 series now?

1) Any fluid labled Dexron VI.
2) Multi vehicle ATF fluids that have some indication that they are "Dexron III" or "for use in GM vehicles 2005 or before."


Here is the actual GM press release, note what I have highlighted:

General Motors DEXRON®-VI Global Service-Fill Specification

During early 2005 General Motors released a newly developed automatic transmission fluid (ATF) for the factory fill of all GM Powertrain stepped gear automatic transmissions. The new fluid provides significantly improved performance in terms of friction durability, viscosity stability, aeration and foam control and oxidation resistance. In addition, the fluid has the potential to enable improved fuel economy and extended drain intervals. Since the performance of the new fluid far exceeded that of the DEXRON®-III service-fill fluids available at the time it became necessary to upgrade the DEXRON® service-fill specification in order to ensure that similar fluids were available in the market for service situations. This latest upgrade to the service- fill specification is designated DEXRON®-VI.

Since General Motors introduced the first ATF service-fill specification in 1949 it has been periodically necessary to upgrade the specification. This upgrading process ensures that available service fill fluids are of an appropriate quality for use in transmissions that have been designed around the factory fill fluid performance. It should be noted that, as with previous upgrades, DEXRON®-VI fluids are designed to be backward compatible with earlier transmission hardware. More importantly, earlier type fluids are not forward compatible with transmission hardware that was designed to use DEXRON®-VI fluid, i.e. DEXRON®-III is not compatible with the most recently designed transmissions, and the use of these earlier type fluids could result in transmission damage. All current calibrations and certification tests are now conducted with DEXRON®-VI ATF. DEXRON®-III fluids should not be used for these applications where the owners manual recommends the use of DEXRON®-VI. GM does not license or support obsolete ATF specifications or the use of fluids that are being marketed against cancelled specifications.

All DEXRON®-III licenses expire at the end of 2006 and will not be renewed. Beyond that date GM will only support the use of DEXRON®-VI fluids for use in Hydra-Matic transmissions. Fluids sold in the market after that date bearing claims such as “suitable for use in DEXRON®-III applications” or similar wording should be avoided. DEXRON®-VI licensed fluids are fully backward compatible and can be used in all applications covered by earlier GM ATF specifications.

The use of unlicensed fluids and/or non GM approved aftermarket additives may prove detrimental to transmission performance and void warranty coverage.

There is a published list of GM-approved brands of DEXRON®-VI (see page two of this release). This list represents the companies who have conducted the appropriate testing and received GM approval. Company name, license number, and brand name are shown. This list will be updated on a regular basis as more approved products are added.

\

Thanks Cary...



My question is ...Do you recommend this M1 ATF? What do you use in your truck?

Personally, I use Redline D4 ATF. I do this for two reasons. 1) I tend to like Redline gear oils, having good luck with them for 15+ years. 2) They are local to me and relatively inexpensive compared to what others pay (I pay $25 per gallon). If I didn't use the Redline Gear oils and ATF, I would use Mobil 1.

 

[CowboyUp]

Royal Purple Oil

How about Royal Purple Oil, is good how the publicity is? Increasing horse power, mileage....

 

[turbocruiser]

We could also create a place to post Oil analysis results. Interested in the forum members thoughts

Wow, what a totally terrific thread! I have no hint of how I missed this way back when and it's another example of how much help Ken provides us people here. Thank you, thank you, thank you Ken. Anyway, I love the idea of posting our various Oil Analysis results somewhere specific. I think that collectively btwn all the different oils, vehicles, weather situations and different drivers we have here, we would all really learn a lot about what works best.

Anyways my "stats"
Engine: M1 5w40 or 0w40 depending on temp at time of oil replace. For the longest time I changed at 3K or 3.5K intervals, then I went to 5K, got an OA from Blackstone Labs which showed something like 5 on my TBN indicating that even with the turbo which adds alot of heat to the system, M1 can handle 5k on our engines.

Transmission: M1 ATF changed every other oil change.

Steering: M1 ATF changed every oil change.

Differentials: M1 75w90 changed every 10K or after any water crossing.

Driveshafts: Amsoil w/ Moly - its their all-area, all-purpose NLGI #2, fortified with modest amount moly approved for high and low speed bearings - forgot the formal designation.

Birfs, Bearings, etc.: Amsoil w/Moly as above.

Thanks Again!

 

[CPJONES1231]

I know how everyone recommends using OEM filters, parts, etc..
What about the Toyota bottled oil? Anyone besides me use it?

 

[AJLFJ80]

Beat to death topic, I know, but has anyone used the Rotella T 15w-40, as opposed to the Rotella T 5w-40 synthetic?

 

[OGBeno]

Beat to death topic, I know, but has anyone used the Rotella T 15w-40, as opposed to the Rotella T 5w-40 synthetic?

I have used Rotella 15w40 for the late spring/summer/early fall months and then switch for one oil change to the 5w40 for the winter. I've been doing this pretty religiously for about 5 years now. That said, for the past three years, I've only had to change the oil twice a year.

 

[semlin]

i recently found out on a tractor forum that rotella t 15w40 conventional has been reformulated and there are two versions. the version found at walmart is the new one and meets certain new standards but there are arguments that the old version is better, especially for older engines.

 

[AJLFJ80]

The new one is a red bottle and the old formula is a white bottle, correct?

 

[PDoyle]

I was never a big fan of Synthetic Oil. After reading RavenTai's write up a few months ago I decided to change over to Mobil 1 5w-30, also still using the Toyota OEM short filter. I have 147k miles on my motor now and have changed the oil 3 times. So I put about 13-15k miles on with the new oil. I have no more leaks than usual and I've seen a slight improvement (30-40 miles per full tank) in gas mileage.
I'm a believer!

 

[98 SNAKE EATER]

I know how everyone recommends using OEM filters, parts, etc..
What about the Toyota bottled oil? Anyone besides me use it?

It's all I use in my rig

I usually change every 3k miles (about every 3-4 weeks) except for Blackstone samples which I let run much longer....

In fact, I'm letting this sample go for 10k miles (when she rolls 200,000)

Here's a link to my reports, which also shows a virgin oil sample...

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-...-oil-report-should-i-worried.html#post2572797

 

[ELW2]

Interested in your opinion of the best conventional oil for:

- 1994 FZJ80 1FZ-FE
- Mileage: >200K miles
- Outdoor temps: Average January low of 25F and average July high of 90F. Extreme low of 0F and extreme high of 100F.
- Usage: Daily driver. Mostly short trips with city driving. Occasional long 1,500 mile road trips with highway driving.
- Known problems: Burns about 1 quart every 1,500 miles with conventional 10W-30. Some oil leakage from valve cover gasket.
- Conventional oil is preferable to reduce cost vs. synthetic.
- Either store bought or online ordering is ok.
- Do my own changes.
- Using a PureONE PL30001 filter.
- Oil change interval: 6,000 miles / 6 months.

1994 US Owner's Manual specifies:
- Type: API SH Energy-Conserving II or ILSAC multigrade.
- US Viscosity: 10W-30 for temperatures above 0F. 5W-30 for temperatures below 50F.
- Change intervals: 7,500 miles / 12 months for regular use. 3,750 miles / 6 months for severe use.
- Oil required for drain, re-fill and filter change: 7.8 quarts

Australia Owner's Manual recommends the following oil viscosity, based solely on the performance requirements of the engine, unrestricted by US CAFE fuel economy regulations:

Temperature
19 to 100F: 20W-50
14 to 100F: 15W-40
0 to 100F: 10W-30
-22 to 46F: 5W-30

Based on the more realistic Australia recommendation, I believe 15W-40 would work well for this 15 year old, high mileage, oil burning, gasket leaking, vehicle, not only in summer but also in winter. Alternatively, we could run 15W-40 in summer and 10W-40 in winter.

At the moment, considering these conventional oils:
- Chevron Delo 400 Multigrade 15W-40 (not LE)
- Chevron Supreme High Mileage 10W-40
- Chevron Supreme 10W-40

These are all around $2.50 per quart at Sams Club, Costco, etc.

Open to any other suggestions...

 

[2001LC]

Does anyone have any experience or comments concerning MPG and the use of Mobil 1 synthetic ATF fluid?

First of all let me say what a great board this is and I'd like to share my experience; after changing all lubes to Mobil 1 at the same time; My gas mileage drop by about 1 MPG average over the last 30,000 miles, the drop was noticeable from the day i made the change over to Mobil 1.

After reading this board, Mobil product data sheet and one other post in a different thread I've come to the conclusion it may be the Mobil 1 synthetic AFT that had the greats effect my MPG. 1 MPG is not a lot but it adds up over time, and makes me wonder if the my mechanical components are wearing more now then when i was using Castrol. Mobil 1 5W-30 may also be part of the drop although I see here that Mobil one is a thinner 30W than Castrol 30W so i assumed it's not part of the drop in MPG, but, Castrol advertises that they're 4 X slicker than Mobil 1.

Notes:

LC100 with 120,000 all stock.

Changed up to; Mobil 1 synthetic 5W-30, Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube 75W-90, Mobil 1 synthetic AFT for transmission and power steering and Mobil synthetic #2 grease.
Away from; Castrol syntec 5W-30, 80W-90 with BG additive, Dexron III ATF and power steering (or what ever the dealer and OEM had in it) and generic #2 shop grease.

Mobil 1 synthetic ATF has a cST @ 100 degrees of 7.4 (currently report) and their Mobil Dexron VI ATF is at 5.83

The drop could be related to something else done at same time like plugs, timing belt, filters or lazy O2 sensors but i don't think so, the Mobil may be the most likely culprit.

 

[semlin]

Does anyone have any experience or comments concerning MPG and the use of Mobil 1 synthetic ATF fluid?

First of all let me say what a great board this is and I'd like to share my experience; after changing all lubes to Mobil 1 at the same time; My gas mileage drop by about 1 MPG average over the last 30,000 miles, the drop was noticeable from the day i made the change over to Mobil 1.

After reading this board, Mobil product data sheet and one other post in a different thread I've come to the conclusion it may be the Mobil 1 synthetic AFT that had the greats effect my MPG. 1 MPG is not a lot but it adds up over time, and makes me wonder if the my mechanical components are wearing more now then when i was using Castrol. Mobil 1 5W-30 may also be part of the drop although I see here that Mobil one is a thinner 30W than Castrol 30W so i assumed it's not part of the drop in MPG, but, Castrol advertises that they're 4 X slicker than Mobil 1.

Notes:

LC100 with 120,000 all stock.

Changed up to; Mobil 1 synthetic 5W-30, Mobil 1 synthetic gear lube 75W-90, Mobil 1 synthetic AFT for transmission and power steering and Mobil synthetic #2 grease.
Away from; Castrol syntec 5W-30, 80W-90 with BG additive, Dexron III ATF and power steering (or what ever the dealer and OEM had in it) and generic #2 shop grease.

Mobil 1 synthetic ATF has a cST @ 100 degrees of 7.4 (currently report) and their Mobil Dexron VI ATF is at 5.83

The drop could be related to something else done at same time like plugs, timing belt, filters or lazy O2 sensors but i don't think so, the Mobil may be the most likely culprit.

this is a pretty speculative topic and more appropriate for a separate mpg thread about mobil 1 than a faq. please start another thread to discuss.