Cool, just throwing some info out there. Remember it's knocking before you can hear it without an aid. I'm sure the motor can take a lot before you mash bearings and crack ringlands though. Have fun!
Methanol Injection: What Are The True Performance Gains? (2 Viewers)
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Great
Great! Now I'm brimming with confidence! Seriously, appreciate the ideas, I'll look into the "knock ears" idea. It would be a handy tool for many an engine noise I bet
Haha I'm sure you'll be fine how you're doing it. Toyota engines are tough. You can always just kill the motor under load and read the plugs. It's free and I bet you have a spark plug socket already.
Listening to the engine is really fun. Lots of factory motors knock a little (or a lot) but it is entirely possible to have tons of power with no knock. But yeah you're right, you can put your mic on the transmission or suspension arm to find noises too. I use the amp from a Chassis Ear and my own mic and headphones. You could just buy a chassis ear and use it as is. It's neat to have multiple mics and toggle through them but you need to train your ear a little so one is easier I think. I try to mount the mic as close to the combustion chamber as I can and as far from the injectors as I can. They are really loud sometimes.
Listening to the engine is really fun. Lots of factory motors knock a little (or a lot) but it is entirely possible to have tons of power with no knock. But yeah you're right, you can put your mic on the transmission or suspension arm to find noises too. I use the amp from a Chassis Ear and my own mic and headphones. You could just buy a chassis ear and use it as is. It's neat to have multiple mics and toggle through them but you need to train your ear a little so one is easier I think. I try to mount the mic as close to the combustion chamber as I can and as far from the injectors as I can. They are really loud sometimes.
That's really cool, thanks
One more thought, if you spray pre-charger you can get a little more air into the motor since you're compressing a denser charge. Post charger is more likely to get you the knock resistance you need by letting the reaction (water to steam/meth to vapor) happen in the head and hopefully in the combustion chamber. Side benefit is that you have beautiful steam cleaned valves and ports!
I am set up pre supercharger, looking to cool that down and get more density
On gas engines, water/meth injection probably has more gains on more modern engine management systems.
In the world of 2005.5-up vw/audi, the phrase people use when talking about tuning their WMI setup is "timing pull" -- the action the ECU takes to retard the timing at higher RPM.
Higher octane combustion, which is largely what the water side of WMI gives you, allows the computer to retard less, or not at all, at higher RPM.
The methanol side gives you more fuel to combust, and keeps the mixture from freezing.
I know people who have 2.0T volkswagens who have achieved 0 timing pull at redline with pump gas and WMI. We know this because for $250 you can buy a system that will log and graph a vast array of engine parameters on these cars.
On the systems used in 80 series cruisers, I don't think we affect timing through more than preventing knock. So you're reducing the timing pull, but not to the same extent.
In the world of 2005.5-up vw/audi, the phrase people use when talking about tuning their WMI setup is "timing pull" -- the action the ECU takes to retard the timing at higher RPM.
Higher octane combustion, which is largely what the water side of WMI gives you, allows the computer to retard less, or not at all, at higher RPM.
The methanol side gives you more fuel to combust, and keeps the mixture from freezing.
I know people who have 2.0T volkswagens who have achieved 0 timing pull at redline with pump gas and WMI. We know this because for $250 you can buy a system that will log and graph a vast array of engine parameters on these cars.
On the systems used in 80 series cruisers, I don't think we affect timing through more than preventing knock. So you're reducing the timing pull, but not to the same extent.
On diesel engines, the water gives you lower EGTs and less NOX (due to lower combustion temperature), which means you can push your engine harder.
There isn't a timing aspect, because diesel knocks on every cycle.
There isn't a timing aspect, because diesel knocks on every cycle.
inkpot
SILVER Star
So, would it be possible to tap into the OEM knock sensor to read the signal off of that? and how much timing will the ECU pull to retard timing when it senses knock? I know that when I am heavy on the throttle and cranking up around 5000 my Scan Gauge shows that the timing is advanced much less than I would expect. I am on the verge of going with the Snow system, so I am very interested in all these Meth discussions. John
We did more then a few water methanol injection setups on supercharged mustangs in our shop. The BIG benefit were my shop is (the HOT desert southwest) in helping to stop detonation when the customer runs more timing or turns up the boost. The kit we used most of the time was made by Kennedy's Dynotune, here's a link to their web site. Custom Water Injection - Kennedy's Dynotune
I'm not sure how much control the stock ecu has or how fast it reacts. Do you see sharp drop offs in the timing? I don't know what kind of resolution you have on your scan gauge so that might be hard to see.
Methanol injection in a 1FZ will not give you a noticeable power gain. It will keep the engine from rattling its self to death. If you want more than that you should look into adding additional cylinders.
I'm considering something along these lines:
![New-426-Hemi-crate-engine-400x393[1].jpg](data:image/svg+xml;charset=utf-8,%3Csvg xmlns%3D'http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg' width='400' height='393' viewBox%3D'0 0 400 393'%2F%3E "New-426-Hemi-crate-engine-400x393[1].jpg")
I'm considering something along these lines:
Haha those Mopar crate engines are not cheap though!
1973Guppie
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the way I see it MI may not "add" power but it will keep the power from draining when your IAT's go way up. Especially here in Socal. I have noticed on hot days my S/C truck just does not have the ummpph it does in evenings or on cool days. I plan to add vents, lt orange fan clutch and aux fan to see how much that helps. Eventually I would like to do the snow performance system with a 3 inch pulley.
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1973Guppie, I TOTALLY AGREE with you. Here in NV, my SC runs best in the cool mornings, and the boost is noticeable. However, once the sun comes up and my orange fan clutch is spinning my fan constantly, you barely notice the SC doing anything. It is REALLY noticeable on the long pulls up the mountain passes.
This was the reason why I was interested in exploring methanol injection- for the following:
1. To maximize what the SC is trying to do.
2. Enable me to drop the pulley size / play with more boost.
3. Adjust the timing and see how much more I can squeeze out of the engine without screwing something up.
4. Give my engine a smidgen of safety.
... Of course recognizing that I have simply got to regear the rig because I have 35s on....
This was the reason why I was interested in exploring methanol injection- for the following:
1. To maximize what the SC is trying to do.
2. Enable me to drop the pulley size / play with more boost.
3. Adjust the timing and see how much more I can squeeze out of the engine without screwing something up.
4. Give my engine a smidgen of safety.
... Of course recognizing that I have simply got to regear the rig because I have 35s on....
520 horsepower out of a naturally-aspirated all-aluminum 426 HEMI offsets that acquisition cost quite effectively.........
1973Guppie
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yup, what I like about the snow kit is it really is just a small mod, easily removable etc. I did have an air to air intercooler setup that I sold because I just did not want to cut a big hole in the hood etc. In the end my goal is not necessarily more HP, but to get the most out of the S/C in all conditions.
Yep love my setup. I check the tank every fillip but only end up buying a gallon about every 4th or 5th fill up and it will go down even lower in the fall/winter/spring. Like tonight. Temps were down in the high 60's and I almost couldn't get the system to trigger unless I was seeing 8-9psi.
I will post up when I make changes.
