Long Travel AHC

[grinchy]

Have you linked them in this thread yet, or just your build thread? I love the simplicity and ease of install and swapping

Thread '‘Spring rubbers’ LX570 missing link for attitude control on normal builds (non long travel)'
‘Spring rubbers’ LX570 missing link for attitude control on normal builds (non long travel) - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/spring-rubbers-lx570-missing-link-for-attitude-control-on-normal-builds-non-long-travel.1300261/

 

[grinchy]

I’m worried that I’m spraying or whatever the forum term is for over sharing, so I put it all in that linked thread and will bow out of the long travel discussion. Until you all have it Sussed out anyhow. Then I will require a parts list.

 

[AnyMal]

I’m worried that I’m spraying or whatever the forum term is for over sharing, so I put it all in that linked thread and will bow out of the long travel discussion. Until you all have it Sussed out anyhow. Then I will require a parts list.

Same. And thanks to @TN LX570 for that video and comments.

I’ll continue my work today, but remember im doing the downward flex test with a 20mm spacer already installed on the top. I think, if i were stock again, thats that 1” or so i saw the arm give before. So i may not get any more today. And unfortunately dont have stock measurements to reference.

That 20-30mm may be the most additional articulation we can achieve (pre motion ratio) given the shock never extends that far stock, and then we are limited by compression safety margin. So we are robbing that additional compression space @TeCKis300 measured, (20-30mm) and converting that into the usable stroke length.

After all is done, I should be able to lift 2” static at neutral, and have the same rough or slightly lower amount of added total articulation from stock.

Preload then to restore shock pressures, and the AHC system fully compliant through all modes.

Ill be 27.5 up front just to be safe, and hope to use the shock bolt shackles @grinchy will fab for me in the rear .

One question though for the group:

Has anyone ever pulled the rear shock and measured it against the fronts? If I remember correctly, its a diff part number…

Could be best case, use rears all around, and maybe even rear globes all around when heavy. I know the 600 shock is in play now too.

But either way, we are damn near close to perfecting the AHC system for usable all around lift with almost no drawbacks, and at decent cost.

Im pretty happy with all of it at the moment.

Team LX has never been stronger!

 

[TeCKis300]

Same. And thanks to @TN LX570 for that video and comments.

I’ll continue my work today, but remember im doing the downward flex test with a 20mm spacer already installed on the top. I think, if i were stock again, thats that 1” or so i saw the arm give before. So i may not get any more today. And unfortunately dont have stock measurements to reference.

That 20-30mm may be the most additional articulation we can achieve (pre motion ratio) given the shock never extends that far stock, and then we are limited by compression safety margin. So we are robbing that additional compression space @TeCKis300 measured, (20-30mm) and converting that into the usable stroke length.

After all is done, I should be able to lift 2” static at neutral, and have the same rough or slightly lower amount of added total articulation from stock.

Preload then to restore shock pressures, and the AHC system fully compliant through all modes.

Ill be 27.5 up front just to be safe, and hope to use the shock bolt shackles @grinchy will fab for me in the rear .

One question though for the group:

Has anyone ever pulled the rear shock and measured it against the fronts? If I remember correctly, its a diff part number…

Could be best case, use rears all around, and maybe even rear globes all around when heavy. I know the 600 shock is in play now too.

But either way, we are damn near close to perfecting the AHC system for usable all around lift with almost no drawbacks, and at decent cost.

Im pretty happy with all of it at the moment.

Team LX has never been stronger!

The bonded stock rubber bushings in all joints tend to resist motions at the extremes of travel. That may be what you see as added droop when you relieve the links in your flex test?. That's not say with the heavy wheel and tire package on, that it won't droop to those extents. Also, as you reset the bushing at the new lifted height, the bushings will be more relaxed allowing that extra travel.

 

[AnyMal]

The bonded stock rubber bushings in all joints tend to resist motions at the extremes of travel. That may be what you see as added droop when you relieve the links in your flex test?. That's not say with the heavy wheel and tire package on, that it won't droop to those extents. Also, as you reset the bushing at the new lifted height, the bushings will be more relaxed allowing that extra travel.

Ok, im back, i gave up for the day. hah

Those UCA ball joints are in there in there, despite being a month old. Ive ordered a little claw tool for it that will get here tonight.
Nothing else worked, even after a night trying to soak both sides. You never have enough tools...

Basically though, my shock was within margin of error of being maxed out with the existing 20mm. It was my lower limit as its supposed to be.
Realizing that my top studs were now too long to take out the shock assembly without removing my UCA AGAIN? that was a real bonus...
They were installed together. Ok no biggie, will play again tomorrow between random work.

So, anyway, upon loosing the UCA through bolt at the top, there was an additional roughly half inch to one inch of droop beyond the shocks length, (this is with bushings all relaxed) from both the arms and everything else (CV, Tie rod, even the lines), BEFORE the UCA contacted the coil. Again, not much an inch at the extreme most of down travel. That being said, a lot of that is most likely in snap crackle pop territory, or captain crunch. Depending on your tastes.

Basically the 25-30 mm top spacer seems to be the sweet spot and without long travel upper and lower arms and longer CVs to protect its angles, theres no more to be had. Now another interesting tid-bit, is that my sway bar was under tension LONG before any of this. Even at 1" of existing lift, it was the first component to pop from its cradle.

We are over definitely over pre-loading our sways with every mm of additional lift. And while a coil preload will help, the AHC is still fighting the bar to lift adding that unnecessary pressure we are trying to alleviate. So, that will be my next mod along with the rear travel correction for the shock back there.

Mind you, i will take another measure of the CV once my "27.5mm" spacer is in and reinstalled with the added lift im aiming for, and see if it did in fact change and by how much.
Thats the most accurate measure i can take really, due to the precision of the angle finder. Ill take one too with the above "full danger droop mode" to compare.
Also the sway bars angle again to see if one of you clever folks can calculate how much tension is on it.

I will also remeasure my ref points after its butttoned up of course.

Best tip btw (i figured it out last time i did the spacer);

How to get to the rear shock studs, the professional way - hit it from the top with the extendo.
Works on both sides of the engine bay.

 

[AnyMal]

While my mind was wandering during my live action role play of hunchback of notre dame for half the day...

Is this a kdss frame hole bracket position with a fake splash guard on it? LOL
It does nothing i can tell.

 

[DirtNap]

Honestly, I’m pretty reckless with My attempts. I don’t care if a lost CV is the deciding factor in “I took it to far”

Note to self: give it a few months before trying anything @Killacaviar suggests.

 

[AnyMal]

Ok, im back, i gave up for the day. hah

Those UCA ball joints are in there in there, despite being a month old. Ive ordered a little claw tool for it that will get here tonight.
Nothing else worked, even after a night trying to soak both sides. You never have enough tools...

Basically though, my shock was within margin of error of being maxed out with the existing 20mm. It was my lower limit as its supposed to be.
Realizing that my top studs were now too long to take out the shock assembly without removing my UCA AGAIN? that was a real bonus...
They were installed together. Ok no biggie, will play again tomorrow between random work.

So, anyway, upon loosing the UCA through bolt at the top, there was an additional roughly half inch to one inch of droop beyond the shocks length, (this is with bushings all relaxed) from both the arms and everything else (CV, Tie rod, even the lines), BEFORE the UCA contacted the coil. Again, not much an inch at the extreme most of down travel. That being said, a lot of that is most likely in snap crackle pop territory, or captain crunch. Depending on your tastes.

Basically the 25-30 mm top spacer seems to be the sweet spot and without long travel upper and lower arms and longer CVs to protect its angles, theres no more to be had. Now another interesting tid-bit, is that my sway bar was under tension LONG before any of this. Even at 1" of existing lift, it was the first component to pop from its cradle.

We are over definitely over pre-loading our sways with every mm of additional lift. And while a coil preload will help, the AHC is still fighting the bar to lift adding that unnecessary pressure we are trying to alleviate. So, that will be my next mod along with the rear travel correction for the shock back there.

Mind you, i will take another measure of the CV once my "27.5mm" spacer is in and reinstalled with the added lift im aiming for, and see if it did in fact change and by how much.
Thats the most accurate measure i can take really, due to the precision of the angle finder. Ill take one too with the above "full danger droop mode" to compare.
Also the sway bars angle again to see if one of you clever folks can calculate how much tension is on it.

I will also remeasure my ref points after its butttoned up of course.

Best tip btw (i figured it out last time i did the spacer);

How to get to the rear shock studs, the professional way - hit it from the top with the extendo.
Works on both sides of the engine bay.


View attachment 3188444View attachment 3188443View attachment 3188440

Correction and sorry for the confusion, my setup was on a 15mm spacer, not a 20mm.
Therefore i believe the 10-15mm is the only "additional shock stroke" that I noticed before on my previous install.
Then again, seems like my memory has been failing me a lot recently.
I shouldnt have taken that 6 mos forum break... But life.

 

[Killacaviar]

I’ll get this all buttoned up and fully explained in the next day or two.

Removed a 30mm spacer, installed a 24mm tundra bolt on top spacer. ( you need to disassemble the shock to rotate some of the shock components. Ahc mount and spring 180 degree rotation to ensure no control arm contact and no issues fitting the ahc line…it’s a pain in the ass)

I’m body mount chopping tonight, re positioned all liners an inch higher into the wheel well. Also did full suspension travel testing with no ahc pressure to ensure nothing binds or interferes. ) I think 24mm and no sway bar is going to be the high end of usable travel and not destroying any suspension parts.

I over extended my cv when removing the coil over like a amateur. So I need to reboot and re assemble the inner cv cage. I will say, upon taking the cv apart, everything looks new. No signs of additional wear or stress. That’s with 7k miles and no sway bar, 30mm spacer and some hard wheeling.

24mm spacer and no front bump stop spacer. The bump is still the limiting aspect of compression. I was pretty excited about that. No need to rob Compression for droop.

My upper control arm is off the coil and things look great clearance wise everywhere. I had to cut one upper shock stud to position my ahc line. Not ideal but still full thread engagement and still have the other three. Everything is torqued to spec with a drop of blue locktite.

Here are some photos at full droop. Truck is in L obviously.

The rear shock mount raised to the top hole (1.5-2in). Sleeved bolt, welded and plate gusseted on. Rear bump had been dropped .75 inches. My new tires just barley rub the inner well top at full stuff. I need to correct that with new bumps or a 1 inch shim.

 

[AnyMal]

I’ll get this all buttoned up and fully explained in the next day or two.

Removed a 30mm spacer, installed a 24mm tundra bolt on top spacer. ( you need to disassemble the shock to rotate some of the shock components. Ahc mount and spring 180 degree rotation to ensure no control arm contact and no issues fitting the ahc line…it’s a pain in the ass)

I’m body mount chopping tonight, re positioned all liners an inch higher into the wheel well. Also did full suspension travel testing with no ahc pressure to ensure nothing binds or interferes. ) I think 24mm and no sway bar is going to be the high end of usable travel and not destroying any suspension parts.

I over extended my cv when removing the coil over like a amateur. So I need to reboot and re assemble the inner cv cage. I will say, upon taking the cv apart, everything looks new. No signs of additional wear or stress. That’s with 7k miles and no sway bar, 30mm spacer and some hard wheeling.

24mm spacer and no front bump stop spacer. The bump is still the limiting aspect of compression. I was pretty excited about that. No need to rob Compression for droop.

My upper control arm is off the coil and things look great clearance wise everywhere. I had to cut one upper shock stud to position my ahc line. Not ideal but still full thread engagement and still have the other three. Everything is torqued to spec with a drop of blue locktite.

Here are some photos at full droop. Truck is in L obviously.

The rear shock mount raised to the top hole (1.5-2in). Sleeved bolt, welded and plate gusseted on. Rear bump had been dropped .75 inches. My new tires just barley rub the inner well top at full stuff. I need to correct that with new bumps or a 1 inch shim.

View attachment 3192873

View attachment 3192874

View attachment 3192875

There you are! Thank you!

Ill be practically at 25mm when im done with mine. Do you really think i dont need to extend bump stops?
I thought about not doing it.

I also wondered about rotating the ahc hose, but mine is stiff, and i dont want to put stress on it and the fittings.

 

[Killacaviar]

There you are! Thank you!

Ill be practically at 25mm when im done with mine. Do you really think i dont need to extend bump stops?
I thought about not doing it.

I also wondered about rotating the ahc hose, but mine is stiff, and i dont want to put stress on it and the fittings.

Time will tell if I blow out or snap my front coilovers…

 

[MTKID]

There you are! Thank you!

Ill be practically at 25mm when im done with mine. Do you really think i dont need to extend bump stops?
I thought about not doing it.

I also wondered about rotating the ahc hose, but mine is stiff, and i dont want to put stress on it and the fittings.

There’s always the DuroBump and/or Timbren front bumpstops that might limit just a tiny amount of uptravel. Maybe 1/2”. Might be a simple bit of insurance.

 

[turbo8]

Durobumps will limit travel in slow speed stuff, but not high speed. I could feel the factory bump engage on harsh bottom outs.

You should be able to space the bumps down a little if you want to limit up travel.

 

[grinchy]

I’m about to install an extended bump stop which promises performance in slow and fast compression. Will round back when I’ve given them a bit of a try

 

[MTKID]

I’m about to install an extended bump stop which promises performance in slow and fast compression. Will round back when I’ve given them a bit of a try

Oh you getting sneaky

Please be some cool hydraulic bumpstop

 

[AnyMal]

I’m about to install an extended bump stop which promises performance in slow and fast compression. Will round back when I’ve given them a bit of a try

I will do super springs / sumo springs soon probably, but waiting for your results.

Oh you getting sneaky

Please be some cool hydraulic bumpstop

If its king grinchy we’re talking about, it will be practical, simple to install, and economical.

He dont play around.

 

[turbo8]

Are you trying out these?

 

[grinchy]

Are you trying out these?

View attachment 3193435

 

[turbo8]

I was wondering how these will hold up after being exposed to the elements. Like mud and rocks clogging things up\not allowing to seal properly.

Cool concept though, let us know how they work!

 

[DirtNap]

I’ll get this all buttoned up and fully explained in the next day or two.

Removed a 30mm spacer, installed a 24mm tundra bolt on top spacer. ( you need to disassemble the shock to rotate some of the shock components. Ahc mount and spring 180 degree rotation to ensure no control arm contact and no issues fitting

So can you give us a measure on the full range of travel you are seeing now? (Not sure where it ends up after all of the thread messages)