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Here's why.
I wouldn't anticipate public test drives until production units arrive for dealers to sell. The growing number of pre-production models will continue to be on display at current shows, dealers, associated events, etc for the next few months.
Journalists are allowed access to pre-production units for first drive and media reviews. They are very aware of preproduction caveats and generally don't make much mention of them in their videos other than to often say "these are pre-production so things will change". I've worked behind the scene (logistics and route support) for many media drives, it's a fascinating world of auto reviews and the industry behind it.
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I can only echo what Kurt @cruiseroutfit said. The 250 for me offers excitement for a new cruiser for the first time since the 80. Can't wait to see what the community does with these in the aftermarket. Just wish they would start delivering them so I can pick mine up.
I mean if this is any indication - the last Land Cruiser came out in 2008, and while Google search wasn't as popular as it is now (and nor were the originally targeted purchase base heavy users of it), this is general sentiment. People are looking up the thing, and that's good for everyone buying one.
I still can’t get over the fact that we won’t be getting the big boy 300 series in the States, and have to settle with the 4Runner version of the Land Cruiser. I think the 200 series interior is already cramped as it is, and a smaller interior just won’t cut it.
It really is upsetting to see the trajection Toyota is taking for the Land Cruiser nameplate in the States. Toyota should at least give us the option to purchase the GR 300 series (they already are meeting the crash test standards from the LX 600) and by excluding the Prado name from the 250, it guarantees we won’t ever get the big cruiser back in the States.
Of course there’s more interest because the product meets a certain price point. But that has not been what made the Land Cruiser a special rig in the past. My opinion may be in the minority, but the Land Cruiser name lost a lot of respect with this new budget model being released here. I can’t even look at my 200 without getting peeved with that they have done with the nameplate. I still love the 200 for what it is, but man it’s frustrating. This 250 series will not have the interior robustness and build quality as cruisers prior to it. The extra cost of the vehicle did not all go into Toyota’s pockets as mere profit.
It really is upsetting to see the trajection Toyota is taking for the Land Cruiser nameplate in the States. Toyota should at least give us the option to purchase the GR 300 series (they already are meeting the crash test standards from the LX 600) and by excluding the Prado name from the 250, it guarantees we won’t ever get the big cruiser back in the States.
Of course there’s more interest because the product meets a certain price point. But that has not been what made the Land Cruiser a special rig in the past. My opinion may be in the minority, but the Land Cruiser name lost a lot of respect with this new budget model being released here. I can’t even look at my 200 without getting peeved with that they have done with the nameplate. I still love the 200 for what it is, but man it’s frustrating. This 250 series will not have the interior robustness and build quality as cruisers prior to it. The extra cost of the vehicle did not all go into Toyota’s pockets as mere profit.
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TheLCProject
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@cruiseroutfit and @cruiserdan
@guy80 said "GX" and cruiserdan provided a photo of the LC250 and it's unclear to which model Kurt is referring. Can you two clarify your statements specifically to the GX?
@OGBeno suggested that the GX550 units that the press enjoyed in Tucson were likely not pre-production units (and also not prototype) almost always production models. The GXs in Tucson didn't have prototype stickers on them (as cruiserdan showed for the LC250) and appear to have FMVSS-compliance stickers at least in the driver door jamb. Emissions stickers under the hood appeared to have Xs on them.
OGBeno said:
Anecdotally regarding the LC250, my dealer salesperson said that LC250 will enter production in April.
@guy80 said "GX" and cruiserdan provided a photo of the LC250 and it's unclear to which model Kurt is referring. Can you two clarify your statements specifically to the GX?
@OGBeno suggested that the GX550 units that the press enjoyed in Tucson were likely not pre-production units (and also not prototype) almost always production models. The GXs in Tucson didn't have prototype stickers on them (as cruiserdan showed for the LC250) and appear to have FMVSS-compliance stickers at least in the driver door jamb. Emissions stickers under the hood appeared to have Xs on them.
OGBeno said:
Anecdotally regarding the LC250, my dealer salesperson said that LC250 will enter production in April.
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Yeah, about that. No. You can't like a post(s) where I'm accused of 'hiding' things and them expect me to indulge in your questions. That's an ignore button from me dawg.
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Has everyone screaming "Prado" forgotten that the 250 series wheelbase is the same as the 300 series? Sure the 300 has a bigger body, and "probably" some more robust drivetrain features. Well hopefully for the added cost. But the new 250 is not the old Prado. It seems its the same as usual, I want what I can't have because I can't have it. If you want a 300 in the states, there are teams Lexus salespeople eager to hear from you. Its just comical hearing people complain that the 250 is not comfortable enough or the build quality isn't all that when literally no one has sat in a production LC-250 yet alone driven one.
It’s not the wheelbase in question, it’s the fact that they robbed interior space to make wider fender flares where you effectively get the same outer dimensions as the 200 series, but way less interior space. Just look at the center console armrest if you don’t believe you are getting robbed of interior space.
The LX has glaring issues such as the ridiculous front end on an off-road equipped vehicle, and don’t get me started on the awful 2 screen center dash layout. What an afterthought that was.
There’s no way they can build these new 250’s with the same soundproofing and level of fasteners holding together the interior as the old 200. It’s not in the budget for a 55k rig.
I have been out of cell/internet service for a week and was super disappointed to click on this thread tonight and see these disrespectful and uninformed comments. I hate arguing with people on the internet, but it is distasteful to talk about a true legend who works tirelessly for our enthusiast community this way.
To address the video, I am confused if you all watched what I did. What @cruiseroutfit said was clearly not scripted, and that's not really how these things work. Of course the talent (Kurt)/brand/creative/content/producer teams will discuss at a high level what should should be addressed in the video, but they don't give scripts and don't tell the talent what to say. Videos like this are aimed at a wide audience to highlight features and FAQ, not to the extreme enthusiast base who wants to know the minutiae that 99.9999% of consumers don't care about. Not only did the video answer lots of questions for those who are Land Cruiser fans and Land Cruiser curious, but Kurt was extremely well spoken and composed which is not nearly as easy as it looks when cameras and a production crew are all focused on you. The video currently has over 100k views and around 300 comments, basically all of which are glowingly positive.
Auto manufacturers generally do not care about the enthusiast. They care about selling volume and margins, and they recognize the majority of people who buy vehicles will never use them anywhere near their limits. We are extremely fortunate to have someone like Kurt who works hard behind the scenes directly with Toyota, Lexus, and others in the industry to ensure our collective voice is heard and considered in the design of new products. What's funny to me is over the years I kept hearing on the forum they wished for a new Land Cruiser that was: less luxurious with more choice over options, more utilitarian looks, options like a cloth interior and no sunroof, smaller size and lower weight, locking rear diff, offered CarPlay for things like Gaia integration, and was less expensive than the outgoing model. What Toyota is giving us basically checks every box enthusiasts have been asking for, yet on the forum, you'd think the world is ending because "PRADO" isn't a real Land Cruiser. It's beyond baffling and extremely frustrating to hear this refrain from the very community who asked for basically what Toyota delivered.
If you're still reading this far, I wanted to touch on why Kurt is such an incredible asset and advocate for our community. He's too humble to brag on the internet, or in any context for that matter, but he has:
- Traveled all 7 continents in a Land Cruiser as part of Expeditions 7
- Crossed the Greenland ice sheet in a Land Cruiser
- Expedition Overland lead navigator
- Owner / Operator of Cruiser Outfitters
- Board member of Land Cruiser Heritage Museum
- Tread Lightly Master Tread Trainer
- Vice President of I4WDTA
- Race driver for Baja 1000, Mint 400, UROC, and more
- Wasatch Cruiser Club and Expedition Utah leader and mentor
I know there's more I'm missing, but on top of all of this, he's one of the nicest people I have ever met and cares tremendously about our shared passion. Our community should be grateful for people like Kurt and be supportive. It's easy to throw out opinions online without the full context, but Kurt is out there making our off road future better.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
TheLCProject said:
"I'm assuming Kurt's entire video was entirely scripted and blessed by Toyota marketing."
@mcgaskins Maybe I'm reading too much into this but those all seem roughly the same to me. Besides using the word "scripted" in my message I'm not sure where I wasn't accurate.
And not to say that Kurt isn't well-travelled, kind, and a great advocate for the community. But I hate to not be somewhat cautious and sometimes skeptical as I recognize that he has more to gain from all this hype than anyone else on here. And that's fine but I'm not ignorant to the potential conflict of interest.
It's going to be a great vehicle and far better than no US Land Cruiser but that doesn't mean that we all have to be blind brand-fanatics and shut down dissenting views and opinions or complain about what we see as misses.
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Or, you could have just ignored the video and moved on.
I won’t, but you should also recognize that everybody who owns a Land Cruiser right now have and are going to continue to have the value of their cruisers decrease due to the 250 being released in the States without Toyota also giving us the 300 to back up the lineage. Toyota is not having to take the financial hit, current Land Cruiser owners are when they want to trade or liquidate their vehicle.
What’s said is needing to be said because there’s truth behind it. I’m not sure why people are following a cultist approach by not allowing questioning of this new product. To me, Toyota made this abundantly clear - this is about them making money and they threw away the Land Cruiser FLAGSHIP name and are cashing it in on a lower scale model without giving any regard to the family wagon lineage that came before it. It’s shady and disingenuous at best.
It’s a black pill stance but it’s the truth.
You’re mad because a depreciating asset is going to depreciate? Maybe you shouldn’t be buying cars. Land Cruiser owner here and I’m fine with land cruisers costing less across the board . I don’t see the problem. More land cruisers on the road means more attention from Toyota for future offerings.
Your family wagon is still available. It’s called the lx600 but you think it’s ugly. I have the feeling you’d be mad no matter what Toyota did. Even if it was bringing a Toyota branded 300 here. But oh no that would depreciate the value of all the other Land Cruisers. You’re not questioning the product you’re complaining and whining about a vehicle you have never driven/or even further guess seen. Sounds like you’re mad because you’ll feel less special or you overpaid for a used 200 or another series.
Lastly, Hate to tell you but Toyota has always sold cars to make money.
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Oh my goodness, vehicles are depreciating assets?!
I don’t own three Land Cruisers because I think they aren’t going to depreciate. I own them because they are quality built trucks that fit the “buy it for life” mindset. Sure I’m disappointed we don’t have the 300 with a split gate, but I’m excited for something a bit different and reminds me strongly of my 80 series.
PREACH
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For everyone one upset about loss of interior space there is another who simply thought the 200 was bloated, I fall into 2nd group.
LX, yep
250 overall build? Verdict still out.
Cars depreciate yes, but blindly turning an eye to a company downgrading the nameplate is something to simply ignore? I guess you don’t care about what you own then. You might as well deem all your property worthless in that sense?
If they brought the 300 GR to the States here, it would allow people to still put the Land Cruiser name on a pedestal and not have it only as their mid tier product line.
No, the sequoia should not be the flagship model here in the States. Toyota majorly messed up by taking this stance.
And yes, the Land Cruiser name used to mean something special to me. But every day we are getting closer to the launch of this product, I lose more and more of that feeling because we will have to settle with a mediocre product rather than getting the 300. It’s a very sad ordeal.
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My comments about Kurt’s video were not a cut at him and I’m confident he didn’t take it that way. His video was the only recent I watched where the presenter (Kurt) didn’t have to repeatedly look at the official Toyota talking point sheet (script) to do the video. Every other one I’ve seen recently LC/GX has one or more bumbling influencers talking about a vehicle they know nothing about and constantly referring back to the point sheet mid video. Kurt’s video was good for the general public, great really. Not targeted for us.
We as enthusiasts are hungry for more and new info. Getting impatient with what seems to be a delayed launch. And can see through the obvious marketing machine in what seems to be a holding pattern.
